sump pump question

[sicklids]

alright, getting ready to set up the 120 gallon tank. im making my 40 gallon breeder into the sump. so my question is, how much water do i want to move per hour? i heard 10x's the gallonage of the tank (not sure gallonage is a word). if so i will need an overflow box that moves 1200 gallons per hour right?

secondly, the return pump, should it also move 1200 gallons phr as well?

[cgoodman381]

The amount of water you move in your display will depend on what corals you want to keep. 20-30 for lps and softies and more for sps.

For you return, I have heard arguments that slower flow is better, but I don't really see it. Most people opt for 6-10X their tank size for return. So yes... your overflow box will need to return about the same amount as your return pump. Otherwise you will need a ball valve to turn the flow down. You can use a calculator over at reef central to see what size bulkheads you need for what flow.

[sicklids]

i dont have any coral, FOWLR tank, predator tank, sump will be used as refugium for snails and crabs and such. food for the predators!!!

[cgoodman381]

Well I would still aim for at least 20x flow. Some people may say less, but basically the more flow you have the longer detruis will be suspended. The longer its suspended the better, as it will get down to your sump and skimmed/filtered through a sock.

[sicklids]

gotcha, so about 2400 gph then?

[yote]

Thats about what I'd shoot for.

[Bifferwine]

You will need to get a pump that is rated for more than your overflow. The water will have to travel some distance against gravity from the pump to your tank, and that reduces its efficiency.

A 1200 gph pump is rated at 1200 gph as it immediately exits the pump. That's significantly smaller when you take into account the several feet upwards the water has to travel before reaching the tank.

[Rcpilot]

Why not go for just 10x into the sump? And use powerheads or a closed loop for circulation and water flow.

I'm a believer that water flowing into a sump (what you're talking about is not really a sump--it's a refugium because you're using it to grow food and fauna) shouldn't be the same speed as you want in your tank. Crank 2400GPH through your 40g sump....... Can you say tidlewave? How about garbage disposal? Whats that? --- carry the two.... add the zeros.......divide by 4....... that's 60x through your sump full of crabs, snails, other inverts and the skimmer. There's no dwell time in that sump/refugium. Your snails could reproduce in your refugium. That would feed the tank. Maybe thats your plan all along? It ain't gonna happen at 60x. Eggs will be washed away. I'll bet you wouldn't have many pods in a refugium like that. It's too fast.

I'd shoot more for about 400-600gph through the sump and do whatever you need to do in the tank for circulation with the powerheads.........or drill about 15 holes in the back of it and slap a Dart on it

If I ever get my 90g set up, I'll be drilling so many holes in the back of this sucker, people will think it's Swiss cheese. I don't like the look of big J-tubes or massive overflows on tanks. It works, and ya do what ya can. But I am determined to save up the cash to drill all those holes and buying the pump/plumbing setup. It's so much cleaner inside the tank. Use a 2" deep x 3" wide overflow across the whole back of the tank and couple 1" pipes to run down into the sump. The return pump can then be smaller. Smaller = cheaper and less heat into your tank. Unless you plan to plumb the return pump outside the refugium? That's what I'd like to do. Pumps wear out and big reef tanks aren't something you jump into for a year or two and then quit. Usually by the time you jump into the 100g club, your SERIOUS and will probably stay in the hobby for many years. You could be changing pumps at some point. I want it easy to access. Put a valve outside the tank and plumb in a union and the external return pump. When it goes out, it takes an hour to fix it. Maybe less.

I hope that I don't sound like a jerk. Just thinking out loud.

[sicklids]

Rcpilot, you are not a jerk by no means, i need people like you to answer questions like mine cuz i honestly dont know about all this stuff. you are right, all that water through the sump/refugium would be a tidal wave and i didnt even think of that at all! so i should run about 600 gph you say through the sump and then use powerheads to move the water in the tank? sounds like a better plan cause then i wont have to spend all that money on a big bad pump to push it back up to the display tank.

yes i want to use the refugium to grow snails and pods so that my puffer can have gourmet on occasion, and just in case i have an algae break out, can put rocks in the refugium so the snails and such can do the cleaning. that is my plan. thanks guys!

[RyanG]

Yep go with two 1.5" overflows(if you drill it) or the equivalent overflow box(1200 gph) go with a 1200 gph non pressure rated pump and it will equal out to similar flow. Make up the FLOW(gallonage haha) with either powerheads or a closed loop.