Morality

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Bifferwine

Unfortunately, with some species it will come down to that. Just like it is with many land dwelling species. The only individuals left alive on the planet are in zoos or research facilities, they've been wiped off the face of the earth by human activities and the last few on earth are relics just waiting to die in captivity.

gee, um, I after that uplifting post, I may just go outside and jump in front of a bus

[kevinsimons]

If you REALLY want to get into the morality of this (or any other) hobby - how about calculating the carbon footprint associated with running these tanks? If you get TOO analytical with all of this, you'll stop living life and crawl into a cave and wait for the end of days (ref: Doc's last post)

I DID calculate the impact I'd have adding by adding 55 gallon tank to my total carbon footprint - and proceeded anyway - largely because I have the smallest carbon footprint of anybody I know (I drive a scooter that gets 70+ MPG and use less than 4 gallons of fuel per month; I work 3 blocks from home, I rarely leave the confines of the 49 square mile city I live in, I only heat my home 3 months out of the year and use no A/C).

I take some comfort knowing that the corals and fish in my tank are safe, being properly cared for, and will (hopefully) live a longer, safer and healthier life in my home than they would in the wild (largely thanks to the awesome help I get from the people on this board).

[Doc]

Originally Posted by kevinsimons

If you REALLY want to get into the morality of this (or any other) hobby - how about calculating the carbon footprint associated with running these tanks? If you get TOO analytical with all of this, you'll stop living life and crawl into a cave and wait for the end of days (ref: Doc's last post)

I DID calculate the impact I'd have adding by adding 55 gallon tank to my total carbon footprint - and proceeded anyway - largely because I have the smallest carbon footprint of anybody I know (I drive a scooter that gets 70+ MPG and use less than 4 gallons of fuel per month; I work 3 blocks from home, I rarely leave the confines of the 49 square mile city I live in, I only heat my home 3 months out of the year and use no A/C).

I take some comfort knowing that the corals and fish in my tank are safe, being properly cared for, and will (hopefully) live a longer, safer and healthier life in my home than they would in the wild (largely thanks to the awesome help I get from the people on this board).

Don't worry Kevin, what you save, I make up for with added carbon footprints!!! I got your back..... wait..... is that a good thing?

-Doc

[kevinsimons]

Doc - want to buy my carbon credits? (grin)

[Doc]

Originally Posted by kevinsimons

Doc - want to buy my carbon credits? (grin)

hell ya! Where do I sign!

-Doc

[sen5241b]

Reef hobbyists create a lot of awareness of the real reefs. Share what you know. I'm teaching my son a lot about aquatic life and chemistry.

[fatman]

One of the todays Zoo's primary object is to find a method for breeding all species of animals they hold in captivity. This is in keeping with if they can not be bred in captivity and are still breeding in the wild it is only natural to believe those still left in the wild are better perpetuating there continued existence than their forced containment where they can not or will not breed will. Looked at it in that light, our having fish in our tanks that can not or will not breed while contained is just self centeredness in our parts. Consider the actual definition of domestication of animals. The definition is dependent on breeding the held animal. We are purposely condemning to death for or own pleasures a lot of species of reef fish, not protecting them under any stretch of an excuse we call humane or deserved. Unless you can say you are containing those fish at all costs and inconveniences in a manner where you are earnestly making all possible efforts to breed them in captivity it is just flat out selfishness to contain those fish. I hear of few people making efforts to even house mated pairs of angels or tangs, yet alone their trying to develop methods to successfully raise the fishes off spring in captivity. I prefer not to house the fish rather than to contribute to their demise. Most fisj do indeed breed willingly in captivity, but methods to raise the young are lacking and usually not employed anyway. I can propagate my corals, and the ones I house are based on my ability to successfully propagate them. I only keep only corals I can propagate, and I try not to keep fish or most invertibrates at all. I do keep smail that brred in captivity. I do not have the finances, time or education and/or experiences needed to run a tropical reef hatchery or research facility. Although I wish I did. I do get towork as an assistant to thesite engineer this summer during thebuilding of a large state owned fish hatchery. At this time I believe most unbreedable coral reef fish should chiefly be housed by such research facilities or persons who are ready to devote their resources to bredding said fish. I am not an advocate of everybody having free rein at their own private possession of any and all species of fish or animals that grow on this earth. I do not consider myself a tree hugger. I just consider myself an educated and experienced person with a lot of experience with the ignorance, greed, and self centeredness of most of "civilized" mankind.

[kevinsimons]

Doc - (or anybody else)...you want to offset your carbon footprint? do it here: http://www.terrapass.com/

[fatman]

Want to see huge carbon foot prints. Look at the carbon footprints of Alaskans. It is winter seven months per year up here and longer up in northern Alaska. Half the population lives off the raod system where flying is done very often if not daily then at least weekly. Everbody has trucks, usually four wheel drives. It is common to drive 20 to 40 miles each way to work every day. ATV's and snow machines litter every bodies yards up her, and river boats with dual 100 HP plus jet units are all over every summer. Virtually nothing is produced here but is shipped up here mostly buy plane. We be carbon whores up here. Just the amount of fuel spent getting all the tourists to, from and around Alaska every summer is astronomical. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tour busses all summerlong, and the cruise ships. We have many, many hotels and motels only open in the summer to provide for tourists. That makes for huge carbon footprints. Then there is the fact that the oil companies are still burning off huge amountsof natural gas 24 hours aday at Prudoe Bay beacuse they can, and because it is cheaper than reinjecting. It is the only place in the United States with higher emissions than those in LA and other areas of California.

[yote]

Better for somebody to take that animal and know its needs and care level than to let somebody that dont really care if it lives or not.
just my 2 cents.