Reef Builder

[fatman]

Originally Posted by Melonbob

just me or is it a little weird to add something to lower your ph in order to dissolve a product designed to raise your ph?

The acid will be neutralized by the carbohydrates (buffers) in the reef builder which raise the alkalinity, therefore they will not effect the chemicals that raise the pH. There are different types of carbonates that perform different functions. By adding a little acid the alkalinity will not be raised as much, but the Buffer was being added to raise the pH not the alkalinity. Acid is used a lot by people who use a lot of calcium hydroxide to increase the calcium availability in Kalkwasser and it still has ane extremely high pH. The job of a Buffer is to neutralize acids not raise the pH. Typically it is the Buffers in Reef Buffer that are stubborn about dissolving not the chemical used to raise the pH. I do not knople call their product for raisng the pH Reef Buffer, but call there Buffer builder Reef Builder. Then they also have Marine Buffer. Oh well.

[Melonbob]

wow......I was just trying to note irony there.....

[fatman]

I had to give a presentation to a bunch of grad students last semester about carbon dioxide an its effect on marine water. Lots of news reporters like to say that carbon dioxide forms carbonic acid and that carbonic acid is acidifying the ocean. Carbon dioxide is created every time a fossil fuel is burned, whether oil, gas or coal. It is the chief cause of global warming, along with methane gas, thank you cows, beef cattle and septic tanks. Trying to explain the difference between pH and alkalinity to educated people with no knowledge of reef aquariums or little knowledge of buffer systems was nearly impossible. These were mainly mechanical and petroleum engineers with a conservationist and a forest service person amongst them. None of them had taken any chemistry beyond the minimum two courses required of all science majors. Basically, high school chemistry. I tried showing them chemical equations and diagrams and finally settled on them just accepting that alkalinity protects against drops in pH. And that ocean water was pretty alkaline, and that it would take a lot of acid to make the water not alkaline. I just wanted to jump up and down and say that you had to pass out of the realm of alkaline before you could acidify. I do not think there is such a thing as less alkalining. I could not say things like for every drop of hydrochloric acid it requires a drop of sodium hydroxide to make balanced pH. I attempted to go that way but the professor stopped me and said this was not a chemistry class so I had to approach it from a different question. The total end result was for the students to just understand that the reporters were misusing the term acidification for probably the reason of sensationalism. I still do not know how to fully discuss the calcium system of a reef tank well in laymns terms. Actually I do not know anyone who does. Most reef professionals just recommend that one obtains a book on the subject and learn from it on their own, and that even a degree in chemistry doesn't give one much of an edge in learning to understand it.

[Piggy]

I can not get my Alk above 2.5 meq/l. What else can I do? My PH is 8.3

[Rcpilot]

Originally Posted by Piggy

I can not get my Alk above 2.5 meq/l. What else can I do? My PH is 8.3

You need Reef BUFFER from SeaChem.

Reef BUILDER will raise pH and not much on the ALk.

Reef BUFFER will raise ALK and pH, but it will NOT raise pH over 8.4 It will raise ALK as high as you want if you keep adding it.

My 30g tank with 5g refugium needs 1teaspoon of Reef Buffer every 2 days to keep parameters where I want.

The Reef BUILDER won't do anything but raise pH.

[fatman]

Originally Posted by Rcpilot

You need Reef BUFFER from SeaChem.

Reef BUILDER will raise pH and not much on the ALk.

Reef BUFFER will raise ALK and pH, but it will NOT raise pH over 8.4 It will raise ALK as high as you want if you keep adding it.

My 30g tank with 5g refugium needs 1teaspoon of Reef Buffer every 2 days to keep parameters where I want.

The Reef BUILDER won't do anything but raise pH.

Your mistaken. Regardless of the names which I tried to explain as strange. The Reef Buffer is actually made to raise the pH and will also raise the alkalinity. Reef Builder is mixed/sold to raise the Alaklinity without immediately impacting the pH, meaning it is just Buffers.

I sit with a bottle of each in front of me at this moment.

[Rcpilot]

Originally Posted by fatman

Your mistaken. Regardless of the names which I tried to explain as strange. The Reef Buffer is actually made to raise the pH and will also raise the alkalinity. Reef Builder is mixed/sold to raise the Alaklinity without immediately impacting the pH, meaning it is just Buffers.

I sit with a bottle of each in front of me at this moment.

BS

I sit with a bottle of Reef Buffer in my hand and I quote:

"Reef Buffer is intended primarily for use in a reef system where the maintenance of a pH of 8.3 is often difficult. When used as directed Reef Buffer will raise the pH of your reef system without fear of accidentally overshooting the pH to a dangerous level. Reef Buffer will also raise carbonate alkalinity. Reef Buffer is a blended product and is not just sodium carbonate. Reef Builder should not be used to raise alkalinity when pH is not a problem. Use Seachem's MultiTest: Marine pH & Alkalinity to check pH and total alkalinity"

I use Reef Buffer 3 times a week. I know what it does.

It will raise your pH but will not exceed about 8.4

It will ALSO raise carbonate alkalinity. You put more in the tank -- the alkalinity goes up. It IS possible to overdose and jump the Alk off the chart. But it will not exceed about 8.4

Read the bottle again Fatman.

[Rcpilot]

Originally Posted by Rcpilot

BS

I sit with a bottle of Reef Buffer in my hand and I quote:

"Reef Buffer is intended primarily for use in a reef system where the maintenance of a pH of 8.3 is often difficult. When used as directed Reef Buffer will raise the pH of your reef system without fear of accidentally overshooting the pH to a dangerous level. Reef Buffer will also raise carbonate alkalinity. Reef Buffer is a blended product and is not just sodium carbonate. Reef Builder should not be used to raise alkalinity when pH is not a problem. Use Seachem's MultiTest: Marine pH & Alkalinity to check pH and total alkalinity"

I use Reef Buffer 3 times a week. I know what it does.

It will raise your pH but will not exceed about 8.4

It will ALSO raise carbonate alkalinity. You put more in the tank -- the alkalinity goes up. It IS possible to overdose and jump the Alk off the chart. But it will not exceed about 8.4

Read the bottle again Fatman.

That red part is NOT a typo. Thats EXACTLY what it says on the bottle.

[Rcpilot]

Originally Posted by Piggy

How in the world do you get the stuff to dissolve? It says to mix with a cup of water but it never does. I even tried more water. When I add a little to tank it looks like it's snowing. I'm trying to get my Alkalinity up. Also does anyone have the link to where someone tested all the salt brands? I thinking of trying something different.

And she's been using Reef BUILDER.

I told her to use Reef BUFFER and WHY thats what she needed.

[fatman]

I read the bottle again and I repeat either you can not read or my bottle and my catalog is misprinted but yours is not, and I do not think that is the case. You Rcpilot are obviously having a problem reading the label on the bottle. The label plainly/clearly says, "Reef Builder should be used to raise alkalinity when pH is not a problem." It does not say should not be used, it clearly says "Reef Builder should be used to raise alkalinity when pH is not a problem." Perhaps you do not understand alkalinity and maintenance of pH. SeaChem Reef is made only to raise the alkalinity, not raise pH and alkalinity both. It clearly states on advertisements for Reef Builder and on thr Reef Builder bottle that Seachem "Reef Builder raises carbonate alkalinity without immediately impacting pH. With long term use there will be a tendency to stabilize at pH 8.3." You need to perhaps go to the Marine Depot site and look up the Seachem products under pH/KH Buffers.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?IdCategory=&SearchText=reef%20b uilder&vendorcode=SC&vendorname=Seachem&parsed=1 She does not sy what her calcium lvel is but I assume she has not recently had a calcium varbonatesnow storm precipitating out her crabonates. If she has neither product should be used but instead she shou;ld do several large water changes instead of addind any calcium or carbonateproducts. However, Rcpilot you should learn to read and quote only what is written instead of adding a word that is not written.