JB's Reef Tank

[reeffreak]

Looks great.
I don't see a problem with splitting the return.Mine is split into two then the two is split into four.No problems whatsoever.

[jb61264]

What do reefers use to seal PCV piping together?...anything special? or just regular PVC glue?

[reeffreak]

PVC glue and primer.

[fatman]

If I may, a few suggestions. Use a piece of vinyl pipe that fits over your skimmer drain pipe, do not use the barb fitting shown, it is too small for maximum flow. If you want to use a barb fitting use a barb fitting for larger diameter vinyl pipe, even if you have to use a coupling or a fitting to go to a larger size. If your pump is 3/4" output immediately bump up to 1" and continue with one inch until right before entering tank with returns. Reduce down to two 1/2" returns right before entering tank. If your not too impatient go out and buy a true "Y" fitting to use instead of a "T" fitting. A "T" fitting usually does a very lousy job of evenly splitting flow, so ball valves should really be used on each branch when splitting flow with a "T". Ball valves are not needed with a true "Y" which actually slits off like a capital "Y" not a lower case y. True "Y" are available at Farm Supply stores (for Irrigation Pipe", hot tub repair and supply stores where they are grouped together with "manifold pipes" and specialty houses which sell just PVC pipe and fittings. True "Y's" look like a capital Y not a lower case y. Regardless of your pipe size for efficiency you should always use pipe size a 1/4' to a 1/2" larger in diameter and reduce down at your "Y" or "T" or preferably just before entering tank. If your going to branch your line, go up a size, then down two sizes at your return nozzle. Think pi*r^2, the area of a circle. You want to deliver your water in a pipe at least 1/2 again more the area and you want your total of your split inflows to total up to your pump exit area. Example areas: 1/2"=0.785 square inches, 3/4"=1.767 square inches, 1"=3.1416 square inches, 1 1/2"= 7.069 square inches, 2"=12.566 square inches.
If you keep the same size pipe through out you will end up with probably 60-75% of pumps rating and not much velocity at your return exits. Lousy return rates is why so many people think they are getting 600 gph of flow through a 1" overflow. They try to base their unknown overflow on a pumps potential and not its actual return rate or even a calculated return rate. Bigger is really better when it comes to plumbing! Really! Want to borrow one of my hydrology books?

[jb61264]

Originally Posted by fatman

Want to borrow one of my hydrology books?

Thanks for the advice fatman...sounds like I need a course in hydrology The barbed fitting coming off the skimmer box is the fitting supplied by the guy at LifeReef...it is 1" OD and 3/4" ID...my pump is a standard AquaClear Powerhead 802 and a quick measure shows it is 3/4" (which I'm assuming is a "standard size"?)...how do I bump up the output on the pump as you suggest?...I guess I'm not clear on that and assumed I should just keep it 3/4" all the way to my tank.

I think I understand the suggestion of "bumping" up to 1" coming from my pump to the "Y" (I'm going to search out a true "Y" connector as your suggested tonight) but I'm not sure I know how to execute since all I assumed I would do is use 3/4" vinyl tubing directly off the pump to the "Y" (previously "T") connection.

[fatman]

I usually use PVC pipe and fittings rather than vinyl pipe but vinyl is easier for some people, its is extremely restrictive at each fitting though and cause a lot of flow losses. You probably have a 3/4" male threaded pipe coming from your pump. If that is the case get a 3/4" bushing that the pipe will screw into that is for one inch PVS pipe. It will be referred to as 3/4" female threaded to 1" slip. Put that in one side of a 1" coupling, then 1" PVC from there to your true "Y" you will need to add a 22 degree fitting to each branch which will now give you a free flowing 90 degree off each side. Typically true "Y" fittings are 1" x 3/4" x 3/4" or larger, like 1 1/2" x 1" x 1". Run with your PVC pipe to your entry areas then use bushings in couplings to reduce down to 1/2". Now that will produce the same velocity out of each pipe as you would have gotten out of a single pipe at your pump, only with have the water volume from each one. I would use LocLine 1/2" round nozzles attached to 1/2" MPT adapters on each return where it enters tank. Remember that you need to put a small hole in bottom side of your pipe before the adapter and nozzle to stop siphon in the advent of a power outage. The hole of course needs to be inside the lip of the tank as a little stream of water will flow from it into the tank. A little bitty hole that you will have to open up occasionally with a needle or small wire etc. If you want to have more flexibility in your plumbing lines there is available flexible PVC pipe. It is not as flexible as vinyl but it fits all standard PVC pipe fittings which are cheap and less restrictive than vinyl tubing barb type fittings. If you decide to use vinyl get large vinyl which fits over PVC pipe and use clamps with it. It would take 1 1/4" vinyl to fit over 1" PVC pipe. There are plastic clamps to fit 1 1/4" vinyl, but stainless steel are OK as long as it is used away from directly above your tank or sump. The cost of the clamps are about the same but the stainless are easier to find. Just heat the end of your vinyl hose in a cup of hot, hot water and it will easily slide over pipe that otherwise would be to tight. Oh, the pliers sold for assembly off LocLine pipe fittings is not necessary, but it does make things a lot easier. Windy response, huh. I do that a lot.

[jb61264]

Originally Posted by fatman

I usually use PVC pipe and fittings rather than vinyl pipe but vinyl is easier for some people

I was planning to use vinyl tubing from the pump outlet up to my "Y" connection since I didn't think there was any other way...it seems like it would be a pain to use rigid PVC pipe directly off of my pump in case I needed to change it out or fix it for some reason...plus...I don't have a "straight" shot from my sump/refugium to where my "Y" connection will be on the back of my stand...there is a bit of a curve/bend to get it there...which is why I thought the vinyl tubing was the only choice.

Originally Posted by fatman

You probably have a 3/4" male threaded pipe coming from your pump.

No threads on the pump...I don't know that I've seen aquarium pumps that have a "threaded" tube coming off of them. This is a Hagen AquaClear 802 powerhead which I think is a fairly standard pump for aquariums...here's a link to it:
Aquatic - Products
Maybe I should run 3/4" all the way up to my returns and then go down to 5/8" or something like that there?

Originally Posted by fatman

Windy response, huh. I do that a lot.

Never have to worry about that with me...I love the suggestions and advice that you and everyone else provide here

[jb61264]

OK...so now I'm interested in some opinions of the return flow to my tank...I've restricted the diameter of my return as fatman suggested so I will have more pressure/velocity coming out of the returns...but now I'm wondering how I should complete them in the tank.

I've had a suggestion to extend straight for 1" into the tank and then use "loose fitting" 45 degree elbow fittings that can be adjusted when needed.

I've also seen tanks where the return pipes go all the way to the bottom to create flow underneath the live rock

Trying to figure out if it would make sense to have one shoot straight down and the other with a loose 45 degree elbow that could be adjusted when needed or both the same

FYI...I have ordered a Koralia 3 pump that will sit in the tank as well for extra flow (hopefully it won't be too much for just a 40 gallon tank)

[yote]

I dont thnk I would point a return straight down(JMO).I think it would keep to much sand in suspension.I'd point one at 45* down and the other 45,I would turn kinda side ways.
Flow in the tank is something you'll have to play with to get right.

[jb61264]

Yeah...I will probably use 45 degree elbows on each and then when my Koralia 3 comes in and I have water in the tank, then I'll mess around with positioning the 45 degree returns...hopefully the two returns and the Koralia will be enough flow throughout the tank for my 40 gallon breeder