wet/dry

Discussion in 'Do It Yourself (DIY)' started by rbb302, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. rbb302

    rbb302

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    i wanna make a wet/dry filterany ideas on what i would be needing or how hard it would be. if any one as done one and knows some where i can find some plans that be great
     
    rbb302, Jun 11, 2008
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    fatman

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    There are just a few principles to a wet dry filter. One the filter media must remain above the water level in the container it is in. Which means typically it is elevated on a shelf made of lighting grate. Two the water should be evenly dispersed over the surface of the medium, meaning a drip tray is usually used. Three the filter media should be inert and have a large surface area in relation to its mass/volume. Lots of commercial filters are made using media that resembles the plastic strips that hold together the old style six packs of soda pop, plastic hair rollers are often used, ping pong balls, even marbles for those who have an old marble collection. Short pieces of PVC pipe is used by people who have access to a chop saw to cut the pipe easily. They are frequently housed in trash cans, five gallon buckets, small aquariums, dish pans or even tupperware containers. Or you can be really, really silly and buy a MegaFlow Sump Filter for $240 to $360 plus shipping. That would qualify anyone for a Duh reward.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2008
    fatman, Jun 12, 2008
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  3. rbb302

    rbb302

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    some one just gave me 10gallon tank i thank im going use that and make one
     
    rbb302, Jun 12, 2008
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  4. rbb302

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Do you really want a wet/dry filter? Why not just turn it into a sump?
     
    Bifferwine, Jun 12, 2008
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  5. rbb302

    rbb302

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    ok now im confused i thout wet/dry and sump was the same thing
     
    rbb302, Jun 12, 2008
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  6. rbb302

    daugherty part time reefer

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    no a wet dry uses bio balls or some other media that the water trickles over then drains to the bottom where the water is collected(best word i could think of) then pumped back to the tank. most reefers sumps are a tank with different lengths walls inside the tank to make seperate sectons. but every thing is under water. look at this link ans you will see a sump
    http://www.livingreefs.com/forums/d...-reef-build-not-the-new-yankee-worksop-2.html

    and this link is a wet dry filter
    http://www.livingreefs.com/forums/tank-showcase/12639-daugherty-s-50-a.html
     
    daugherty, Jun 12, 2008
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  7. rbb302

    rbb302

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    ok thats help a lot thanks man. but what would u say be better
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2008
    rbb302, Jun 12, 2008
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  8. rbb302

    fatman

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    Trickle filters really are typically only recommended in a fish only tank, where the fish load is very heavy and there is no appreciable amount of live rock and no deep sand bed. Nitrates run high when using a trickle filter, but ammonia and nitrites never appear even with heavy waste input produced by many large fish, such as in a predator tank. Trickle filters are the best filter available for nitrification, they are so good they cause problems with reef tanks. They also do no denitrification. Fish can tolerate large levels of nitrates, most invertebrates and coral can not tolerate high nitrate levels.
     
    fatman, Jun 13, 2008
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    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    If you are going to have a fish only tank, then you could do either, because as Fatman pointed out, wet/dry filters often lead to nitrate problems, but fish can tolerate high levels of nitrate.

    If you are planning on having any inverts (shrimp, crabs, snails, corals, anemones, clams), then you should go with a sump, as these animals will not tolerate even moderate levels of nitrates, and it would be very difficult to keep your nitrates low down the road if you are using a wet/dry.
     
    Bifferwine, Jun 13, 2008
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  10. rbb302

    Damseluver

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    Here is what I would do working with a ten gal which will be tight quarters to work with.

    Take some acrylic sheet and cut for a single baffle. Before glueing it in cut a hole for a 1.5 inch bulkhead in the center a few inches down from top. Use some pvc to direct water from the bulkhead through a micron filter sock. This should keep most if not all micro bubbles from getting to return pump. You will likely want to have a skimmer so make sure water in compartment is large enough to accomadate.

    The typical overflow box with one inch drain will handle about six hundred gallons an hour. Ten gal sump likely will not. Keep this in mind when choseing a return pump. If you already have a pump but its to strong you can plumb in a gate vavle in the return line to redirect some water back to the sump. I would install one regardless so that you have complete controll over how much water is going to the display tank from sump. This design will provide raw water to your skimmer and then some filtration as it passes through the filter sock on its way back to the return pump.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
    Damseluver, Jun 15, 2008
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  11. rbb302

    fatman

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    Only a 1" pipe under constant siphon, or full and under pressure, will pass a flow of 600 gph. A gravity drain partially filled with water obviously will not. Average flow for a 1" bulkhead , stand pipe or gravity drain is much closer to 350 gallons per hour. Unless you directly feed your skimmr, make your skimmer compartment no larger than it takes to hold the skimmer and its pump(s). I would not use a bulkhead or sock and would instead use three baffles instead of the single baffle so as to get rid of mivro bubbles. Socks have a tendancy not to be cleaned almost daily as needed. If your interested most anyone on this site can describe how to cut the baffles for a micro bubble trap.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
    fatman, Jun 15, 2008
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  12. rbb302

    Damseluver

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    For small sumps and accepting only 350 gal an hour its not likely baffles will keep the micro bubbles out of the return chamber. There will just be too much passing through the sump for them to settle up before reaching the return chamber. Not to mention trying to glue this many baffles into a ten gal tank.

    Increase the size of the sump or reduce flow (not really and option here) and baffles will work.
     
    Damseluver, Jun 15, 2008
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  13. rbb302

    fatman

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    Strange, I run 1100 gph through a 40 gallon sump with two skimmers and just one set of bubble baffles and I have no micro bubbles being pumped back into my tank. What I recommended is done daily by thousands of people without problems. As for attaching the baffles, silicone on one side of the glass works fine. It is more than adequate to hold a tnak together so certainly it will hold a mere baffle in place. Even five or six baffles is better than using a sock. No maintenace to skip accidentally. The savings on not buying the sock, bulkhead and holesaw will more than pay for the extra glass. The glass displaces little water so he could put baffles every inch as long as he left room for his skimmer and his return pump. Even that would be better than a sock and bulkheaded baffle. A 10 gallon sump can hardly be considered more than something to hold a skimmer and a heater and a site for a ATO float as a source of incresing water system volume it pretty much a waste of time and effort. A 40 gallon breeder will easily fit under a 120 gallon tank. I would definitely recommend reconsidering the size tank used for a sump. As far as decreasing flow, that is easy. Use a small pump and pump only a small amount of water from the sump to the tank. Only the water pumped to the tank is going to overflow to your sump. That and the water held in the pipes, return and drain, during a power outage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
    fatman, Jun 15, 2008
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  14. rbb302

    Damseluver

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    Well if the baffles work thats great. For the set up described in this post using a ten gal sump they likely wont and if using a hang on overflow reducing the flow to the point that baffles would work will also cause bubble buildup in the U tube at the overflow and eventual siphon break if left uncorrected for any length of time.

    From my experience min sump size maxing a 1 inch drain overflow would be 30 gal with at least three baffles. Even then most commercial sumps this size employ a filter sock or sponge at some point to combat micro bubbles.

    1100 through a 40g breeder; sure. I imagine the baffles are spaced well apart allowing the bubbles to rise rather than sucked through the baffling to the return. Also not an option for a ten gal sump. Once you account for a return chamber and skimmer chamber the remaining baffles will be vary close together.

    Hopefully your going to be there emptying and cleaning the skimmer cup every two or three days. Rinse the filter sock out at this time also. Or better yet get two filter socks and rotate out dirty to clean daily when your there topping off.
     
    Damseluver, Jun 15, 2008
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  15. rbb302

    fatman

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    ...............
     
    fatman, Jun 16, 2008
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  16. rbb302

    rbb302

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    yea well im not doing it any more but thanks for all the help guys.
     
    rbb302, Jun 16, 2008
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