algae problem

[diver]

Help! Everything has been going fairly well so far, but I now have a gross algae problem. This stuff started on the sand and is spreading to the rocks. It is basically reddish, and appears slightly opaque. as it grows, it is getting little strands and is getting thicker. What is this stuff and how should I get rid of it?
My parameters are good NA <20, NI 0, AM 0, PH 8.2-8.4, AK >300. I haqven't tested for calcium yet.
Also, and this may or may not be related, a piece or 2 of my live rock started growing some kind of red algae. Instead of the purple of the coralline, it is definitely bright red. It doesn't seem to be a problem,(yet) and looks nothing like the gross stuff trying to take over.
Is it good ?
additives I use are are purple up 2x a week so far, nano reef A & B about the same, and marine snow 3x a week with the filter off for a while after. I use the m. snow and somw cyclops for the filter feeders I have-

Should I physically remove it?

 

[reeffreak]

Sounds like cyanobacteria/red slime algae.Its is common for a young system to have outbreaks of cyano.Do regular water changes,keep nutrients to a minimum and run some kind of phosphate remover.Not a bad idea to siphon it out during a water change.It sucks and we all go through at one time or another.Another thing is reduce or stop using marine snow/cyclops if its not needed.Most corals will do fine getting their food from the water column and light.

Good luck,it will take some time but you will get through it.

 

[Piggy]

Reef is right on. Do what he suggested. I've been fighting it for over a month now. It's a pain in the butt. The main cause is extra nutrients in the water. You'll suction it out and it comes right back. Just be sure to keep the crap off your corals. Good luck.

 

[cthegame]

Reeffreak got you covered.

 

[Bifferwine]

Yep, ditto. Also buy yourself a turkey baster and blast off what you can. Once it floats around, you can catch it in a net and remove it.

 

[fatman]

Corals do better with supplemental feeding, however it is not a simple matter to supple-mentally feed coral. If the water current is not correct they generally will not feed or even be able to feed, if the lighting is not intense during its cycle they usually will not take supplemental feedings and if other tank parameters are not good they probably will not take supplemental feedings. Meaning if everything else is not at the optimum level they usually will not take too supplemental feedings. Even then there are many different types of coral, sponges and clams, or other invertebrates with their own needs in the way of supplemental feedings. Usually it is best if your heavily into the commercial aspect of coral propagation to avoid supplemental feedings of coral until you have a very mature tank and a set pattern of maintenance procedures established. Most corals will do much better than just survive without purposeful supplemental feedings. However, they do feed on detritus, dissolved organic compounds, micro algae, bacteria, diatomic algae and very small organisms as they can and need, and are therefore not totally dependent on the symbiotic algae living in their tissues for feeding them. Consider trying to keep your Nitrates under 5 not 20. Preferably unreadable Nitrates, Nitrites and ammonia is best. Besides trying to physically remove the red algae, do some water changes of around 10 gallons each every 24 to 48 hours over the next week or so until you get your nitrate down to zero hopefully. I would try to siphon as much as the algae off as possible (when drawing off water for water changes) instead of scraping/basting when possible so as to prevent putting as little nutrients as possible back into the water system which would quickly produce new algae.

 

[diver]

thanks to you all for taking the time to answer me. I will get to work getting rid of this stuff.

 

[Piggy]

If you have a HOB or canister filter just lying around set it up. I put one on my tank and the floss is collecting the fine red algae particles. My tank has made a major improvement since I added it. I think I may have it beat.

 

[diver]

thanks, Piggy.
I was worried about keeping my 2 flame scallops, 2 brittle stars and 2 feather dusters alive. HA.

I am running a canister filter, a medium size RENA. I have cleaned it 2x since I set up in Jan., no straight charcoal just different filter pads and some bio balls and chemi pure . I like what it does, keeps water clear and good aeration and current flow.

I was getting a lot more green algae first, after the T-5's were added. and then began adding snails for the green algae I was letting grow on the back wall. I now have 11 nasarius, 3 turbo and 4 trocha(?). Plus 1 bi color blenny.

I guess the better light plus all the filter food tipped the scale.

this stuff is disgusting. Looks like a bad comb over with dyed hair.

 

[Bifferwine]

That may be your problem. Canister filters should be cleaned weekly, not twice in four months.

 

[reeffreak]

Actually,that twice in two and half months.Diver,cleaning the canister weekly/bi-weekly will help.I would put a phosphate removal media inside the canister as a preventive measure.The media should remove the phosphate before the algae can use it.

Good luck.

 

[Piggy]

diver that's when my algae started was when I upgraded to t5's. Today my tank is looking pretty good. I'll do a water change at the end of the week and that will tell me for sure.

 

[fatman]

diver that's when my algae started was when I upgraded to t5's. Today my tank is looking pretty good. I'll do a water change at the end of the week and that will tell me for sure.

Micro algae really requires little light for growth. T-5's might have incresed the bulk of the algae but it would have still grown with less intense lighting. Canister filters can shed their build up or organic compounds just like bio balls judt in smaller piecies. Canister filters are for mechanical filtration and should be cleaned very often, before they even develop the abilir=ty to really function as a bacteriological filter. Besides the shedding problems the live rock and sand bed (if you have one of any depth) should not be expected to compete with a power canister for food as they will lose. Just as you change/clean a filter sock or bag every few days so should you change floss or pads in a canister filter. Unless you like doing a lot of water changes constantly.

 

[diver]

Thanks again, all.

Actually I cleaned the filter feb 5th and then mar. 5th, I was going to try a monthly cleaning so I would get some bio filtration in there, too.
I have no problem doing it more often, I will go to weekly and add some phosphate removal.
I do have a 3" sand bed, started with 1/2 live sand.

I did a little mechanical cleaning last night, actually picking alot of the crap out. and i did a light scrubbing of a couple small rocks in a container of tank water I dipped out.

I will do a partial water change also.

 

[diver]

Canister filters can shed their build up or organic compounds just like bio balls judt in smaller piecies. Canister filters are for mechanical filtration and should be cleaned very often, before they even develop the abilir=ty to really function as a bacteriological filter. Besides the shedding problems the live rock and sand bed (if you have one of any depth) should not be expected to compete with a power canister for food as they will lose.

Fatman, are you saying the shedding is bad? I also don't understand the part about the live rock and sand bed competing with the filter. Have I got things working against each other?

 

[fatman]

Live sand and live rock are impregnated and covered with bacteria which live off of organic compounds, they break those compounds into simpler organic compounds, IE detritus to ammonia, ammonia to nitrites, nitrites to nitrates. Within deep sand beds and deep within live rock live bacteria that break nitrates down, however this is done at slow rates so we do water changes typically to remove the nitrates. Other biological filtration systems compete with those bacteria for the same food, IE the trickle filters and long running filtrants such as flosses and pads, even socks and bags or charcoal when run for long periods. Long periods can be as little as days. Power filter bacteria have the luxury of a constant stream of nutrients being presented to them therefore they outperform the live rock and live sand, making them barely alive rock and sand. The shedding is bad because the material has already been converted to a form at or near nitrates which becomes nitrates immediately in the water once shed (I will just say dissolved organic compounds to be safe). Normally nitrates climb slowly giving your deep sand bed and live rock time to slowly denitrify it. How ever shedding dumps large quantities at one time, meaning instantly high nitrate readings. Like zero to 20 + in hours. Yes, your biological systems are working against one another in the since they are sharing food and the power filter gets most of it. Then you also have the problem of when the power filter is cleaned it is then no longer performing as a biological filter. This would be OK except for the fact that your bacteria in your barely alive rock and sand is at too low of a population to now handle all the nutrients with out the help of the canister filter which will take days or a week or more to build up its potential for filtration. Consider using the power filter only as a mechanical filter and as a mechanism to run water through chemical filtrants such as phosphate removers and carbon. And remember even carbon becomes a bed for biological filtration when used for periods of over a few days without changing. Power filters also work good for particulate removal, but the should be cleaned every few days.

 

[diver]

wow.
now trying to distill this down, the bio balls (which I haven't touched when cleaning the filter so they would grow good bacteria) in the filter are competing with my LS and LR for food. And the same with what ever good bac. that may have built up on any filtering medium in the power filter.

so are you saying I should only run the filter occaisionally? I would have to start a refugium to do that, right?

:shock:

 

[fatman]

I would suggest you only run the canister filter when there is a need to, such as when you are using a phosphate absorbing medium or when using some carbon to clear color from your water, or to remove particulates like if your water return or power head for some reasons stirs up your sand bed and puts all kinds of particles of stuff in your water that doesn't seem to want to settle out of suspension. If you are going to use the canister filter for circulation sakes alone, then do not put any thing in the canister. In other words do not use it in a way that it will become a biological filter, and if you do then expect nitrate problems to pop up unannounced. The canister filter really does a poorer job than the natural live rock and sand bed at helping to maintain a tanks water parameters when all things are considered. However, if at some point you start keeping large fish that are heavy eaters and fish that eat other fish and are sloppy at doing it, then you might want to use a trickle filter or canister filter in your tank, because the amount of nutrients being put into the tank would be to much for the live rock and sand bed to handle and still leave room for fish to swim about, as you would need a much higher ratio of pounds of rock to gallons of water, than what you have now to handle all the nutrients. If you have a fair enough amount of live rock for the bioload place on it, then a refugium would not be neccessary for biological filtration, but it would eliminate other problems not discussed yet which are not helped by the canister filter or a trickle filter anyway. Refugium were origannaly called refugium because they were tanks that were attached to a main display tank that gave refuge to lifeforms such as pods, plankton, worms and such that never get a chance to grow to large numbers when preyed upon by fish and corals. Now they are used a lot as a place to grow macroalgae for nutrient export, and as a place for deep sand beds for denitrification as well as what they were originally developed for. I use them on a reversed light cycle to grow macroalgae to help eliminate the lessening of dissolved oxygen when my main tank lights are not on. None of these things done by refugiums is done by canister filters or trickle filters.

 

[diver]

I have so much to learn. I really want to do this right, and I think I'm starting to get the big picture.

On another note, I see you live in Fairbanks. Have you been there long?
My brother lived in Anchorage for about 14 years, and I was there 2x and we did fly out fishing trips out to the Kenai pennisula and also up near Denali. It is great up there.

 

[fatman]

On another note, I see you live in Fairbanks. Have you been there long?

:bounce: I have been up here ever since the Army sent me here in 1974. I have not been outside of the state intentionally since I arrived up here. However the states judicial system did see to it that I was housed at their expense in wonderful Florence Arizona for about two years. It was hot outside even on the cold days, always dirty and dusty, nothing green in site, not even weeds, they served a lot of beans, and hardly any locals could read. Not much else I can say about beautiful downtown Florence Arizona, our it's luxurious private prisons.