alternative to aragonite sand

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by Marx, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. Marx

    Pszemol Guest

    "Marx" <mnazarko@nospam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:biff7v$f03$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
    > I have one question - why fine sand doesn't flow all over the tank, when
    > there are many pumps?


    I was told it does to some extend. But the finest particles
    are glued together to make bigger ones by bacteria on them...
    It takes a couple days to a week to settle the finest particles
    on the bottom due to the bacteria activity.

    I did not have DSB in the main tank myself so I am interested
    in this question as well. A lot of people have DSB in the refugium,
    so the water turbulency is not so great and they would not tell us.
     
    Pszemol, Aug 26, 2003
    #21
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  2. "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message news:bifa93.4s0.0@poczta.onet.pl...
    > "Boomer" <wcwing@chartermi.net> wrote in message

    news:vkmqs54kaipfa7@corp.supernews.com...
    > > That article doesn't even mention Coraline Sand and this is nonsense;
    > >
    > > "Aragonite can begin to dissolve, in fact, at a high pH over 8.0 (a still safe level

    for
    > > marine life), while calcite does not readily dissolve until the pH falls well below

    8.0.
    > > This means that calcite is not likely to impart any significant benefits
    > > (buffers/alkalinity) into the water until the pH falls to a level that is too

    dangerous
    > > for most marine life. In this regard, the old argument of dolomite & crushed coral

    versus
    > > non-calcareous freshwater "gravel" for marine aquariums in the early days was a moot

    point
    > > (they were all calcite). "

    >
    > I have also found the story about pH level for dissolving aragonite/calcite to be

    different.
    > If it is a nonsense, what is the true behind aragonite being better for reef then

    calcite?
    > Please explain...


    if you were maintaining your reef at the proper ph of 8.2~8.4 your sand bed wont buffer
    anything
    also just because the ph is low enough doesnt mean that itll raise the ph of the or the
    buffers escaping will get into the water column

    its like an air bag in the trunk of a car, if you were in the trunk to need the air bag
    you would have other bigger problems.

    --
    Richard Reynolds
    Richard.Reynolds@usa.net
     
    Richard Reynolds, Aug 26, 2003
    #22
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  3. > > first off thats been documented, i dont recall at this instant, but its a
    > ph thing, NSW
    > (...)
    > ok, i can belive silica sand will not make problem, But it doesn't help much
    > with water parameters so better would be sand from crushed coral, and the
    > best - aragonite? Am i right?


    yes and no, unfortunately, its not all that clear, if you want buffering, you would be
    better to use your silica or argonite SB and take a handfull of larger CC put it in a bag,
    and put that into a high flow area.

    >
    > > there are a few ppl including an expert normally advising for DSB use,

    > that have said that
    > > DSB's could be bad, not from a setup, but from things like capturing of

    > heavy metals, and
    > > such, things that you cant currently control

    > i read many posts and articles about DSB and decided to do it
    > Here in Poland nobody belive this method ;) so I must call for help here
    >
    > I have one question - why fine sand doesn't flow all over the tank, when
    > there are many pumps?


    Pszemol answered most of that, but the other definition is "fine sand" it should be sugar
    sized to 1mm sand otherwise it will blow all over the tank and your water will always look
    bad, also most ppl dont point high output pumpd directly at there sand bed, but more of an
    angle to bounce water off the sand bed.


    --
    Richard Reynolds
    Richard.Reynolds@usa.net
     
    Richard Reynolds, Aug 26, 2003
    #23
  4. It stays in place once it is seeded. I do have it change from flat as my fish
    like to stir it up as they attempt to make depressions or caves, but overall, it
    looks good and what blows around settles rapidly.

    It gives it a natural look instead of a museum piece.

    http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0803/55g_leftside.jpg
    http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0803/55g_rightside.jpg

    Marc


    Marx wrote:

    > I have one question - why fine sand doesn't flow all over the tank, when
    > there are many pumps?


    --
    Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
    Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
    Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
     
    Marc Levenson, Aug 26, 2003
    #24
  5. > "Richard Reynolds" <reynolds46@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:iDL2b.16555$Qy4.8359@fed1read05...
    > > if you were maintaining your reef at the proper ph of 8.2~8.4 your sand bed
    > > wont buffer anything also just because the ph is low enough doesnt mean that
    > > itll raise the ph of the or the buffers escaping will get into the water column

    >
    > Your sentence construction is very hard to read for a foreigner like me,


    you should try reading without being a foreigner, sometimes its even more fun :)

    > but if I managed to understand correctly you do not relay on the sand bed
    > in the support to buffering process.


    correct

    > I was told in opposite, that sand
    > bottom plays important role in the buffering process.


    bio balls, and bio wheels used to be the way to do bio filtration, there not soo much now
    for reefs anyways :), as we get a better understanding of how things work, we are able to
    do things better :) but dont remove a DSB just because its buffering help is less
    significant it helps in many other ways

    >I do not have enough
    > of my own experience to tell which makes more sense. Please explain, how
    > would you maintain "proper level of 8.2-8.4" if you would not have sand bottom?


    there are many ways to maintain proper ph levels, sand beds can help, but at an extreme as
    an example many ppl have to add buffers when they add calc anyways and you can control
    that very well while the argonite sand is much more difficult to control.

    > I read, there are many different ways of keeping reef, and some do not relay
    > on the sand bottom (like the Berlin method with no substrate on the bottom).
    > Do you use this method on your tanks? I aks because from what I have read
    > other methods rather relay on sand substrates in a stabilizing tank parameters,
    > especially when we talk about DSB in this particular example of Marx reef.


    i have a few tanks, none rely on the sand to provide buffering, some do rely on the sand
    for nitrate removal, and some rely on the sand to support critters that require sand, I
    have an argonite based DSB tank, a plennum tank using silicate sand, a mixed cc and sand
    tank, and a number of just CC tanks.

    > > its like an air bag in the trunk of a car, if you were in the trunk to need
    > > the air bag you would have other bigger problems.

    >
    > I did not treat DSB as a emergency device, rather main and constant support
    > in the water buffering and quality maintaning process. What else is the main
    > function of DSB in many reef tanks?


    a DSB isnt created for buffering its created for nitrate removal, maintaning water quality
    is more than just maintaining buffering, A dsb can be made from silica based sand in which
    it wont touch buffering, but will support life, and help remove nitrates

    --
    Richard Reynolds
    Richard.Reynolds@usa.net
     
    Richard Reynolds, Aug 26, 2003
    #25
  6. Marx

    Pszemol Guest

    "Richard Reynolds" <reynolds46@cox.net> wrote in message news:87N2b.16562$Qy4.62@fed1read05...
    > there are many ways to maintain proper ph levels, sand beds can help,
    > but at an extreme as an example many ppl have to add buffers when they
    > add calc anyways and you can control that very well while the argonite
    > sand is much more difficult to control.


    Do you *need* to controll this process? I expect this to be automatic.
    When the pH drops because of buffering weakens dissolvation process
    intensify and buffering is getting stronger. Acids are neutralized and
    pH rises to the correct value preventing further solvation of the sand.
    IF things are automatic as I expect them to be, I do not care about
    lack of my own control into the process. Help me understand it better.

    > i have a few tanks, none rely on the sand to provide buffering, some
    > do rely on the sand for nitrate removal, and some rely on the sand
    > to support critters that require sand, I have an argonite based DSB tank,
    > a plennum tank using silicate sand, a mixed cc and sand
    > tank, and a number of just CC tanks.


    It would be the best test if one could make up all different tanks
    with the same (or similar) bioload and similar maintenance routine.
    This way we could have a more scientific approach to the comparison
    of different substrate types. I hear many different stories, but
    I am unable to compare setups because everyone is different in size,
    bioload, temperature, feeding schedule and amount etc. It tells me
    nothing that somebody had problems with his tank and it was DSB
    because it might be hundred factors adding up to a system crash
    and one could falsly blame DSB for the crash - in it not a science.
    It would be shaman-ism :)))

    > a DSB isnt created for buffering its created for nitrate removal,


    Yes. I have included "nitrate removal" in my "quality maintenance" term.

    > maintaning water quality is more than just maintaining buffering,
    > A dsb can be made from silica based sand in which
    > it wont touch buffering, but will support life, and help remove nitrates


    So the list you would create for DSB functions in a reef tank would be:
    1) environment for tiny little critters supporting nitrate removal
    2) room for burrowing creatures we keep in reef for display (shrimps/gobies)
    3) water buffering (only if made from aragonite sand)
    4) ... what else can we add to this list?
     
    Pszemol, Aug 26, 2003
    #26
  7. Marx

    Pszemol Guest

    "Richard Reynolds" <reynolds46@cox.net> wrote in message news:wHL2b.16556$Qy4.9022@fed1read05...
    > but the other definition is "fine sand" it should be sugar
    > sized to 1mm sand otherwise it will blow all over the tank
    > and your water will always look bad,


    So what about recommendations to not rinse the oolitic aragonite to
    not get rid of the finest particles with murky water to the drains?
    People recommend even finnest sand, much smaller than sugar sized,
    and they promise it will settle down due to bacteria activity.
    You are saying something opposite to that idea - go figure...

    By "people" I refer to the guys from Chicago area place:
    http://www.acrotropic.com/html/image_gallery.html
    They issued FAQ (http://www.acrotropic.com/html/faq.html)
    Quoted:

    --**-- Do I have to clean / vacuum my AcroTropicT sand bed?
    No. In fact this can have negative effects on your system.
    Vacuuming will remove the very fine particles from the substrate.
    These super fine particles are key to the efficiency of your DSB.
    Think of it this way, put a bowling ball into a pail, fill another
    pail with BB's. Which of the two has the most surface area? The
    BB's do of course. This is the same with particle size in your DSB.
    The more surface area you can create the better as this equates
    to a larger area for processing debris.

    --**-- Do I need to rinse AcroTropic before I put it into my reef tank?
    No. The answer her is the same as for the question above. Those
    tiny particles you would wash away play a huge roll in the success
    of your DSB. Your tank will be cloudy anywhere from 1 day to several
    days, this is normal for new tanks that have not yet started
    producing bacteria. Once bacteria starts to form, it will help settle
    out the sand. We have not tried this method but many people claim
    adding a piece of raw shrimp into the tank will kick start this cycle.

    So what is the experts opinion about the above?
     
    Pszemol, Aug 26, 2003
    #27
  8. > > a DSB isnt created for buffering its created for nitrate removal, maintaning water
    quality
    > > is more than just maintaining buffering, A dsb can be made from silica based sand in

    which
    > > it wont touch buffering, but will support life, and help remove nitrates

    >
    > Wouldn't the DSB have a lower PH that would dissolve crushed coral. Thus
    > adding calcium and buffering the ph. I just remember from my Jaubert
    > days that the low PH at least in a plennum would help with calcium and
    > PH buffering. Sorry if I am wrong, I just barely remember enough to be
    > dangerous :)


    unlike the plennum system there is no mechanical seperator forcing the ph to be lowered,
    also the movement of water thru the DSB is slow, most of what desolves at the lower levels
    hardens at the upper levels, and leaves ppl with the harder clumps in the DSB and doesnt
    help the ph swing that would be required


    --
    Richard Reynolds
    Richard.Reynolds@usa.net
     
    Richard Reynolds, Aug 26, 2003
    #28
  9. > > but the other definition is "fine sand" it should be sugar
    > > sized to 1mm sand otherwise it will blow all over the tank
    > > and your water will always look bad,

    >
    > So what about recommendations to not rinse the oolitic aragonite to
    > not get rid of the finest particles with murky water to the drains?
    > People recommend even finnest sand, much smaller than sugar sized,
    > and they promise it will settle down due to bacteria activity.
    > You are saying something opposite to that idea - go figure...


    I agree dont rinse what you get, just get something with an average size of sugar size to
    1mm, itll come with enough silt to be good, but its not really required, its just that its
    not harmfull.

    > By "people" I refer to the guys from Chicago area place:
    > http://www.acrotropic.com/html/image_gallery.html
    > They issued FAQ (http://www.acrotropic.com/html/faq.html)
    > Quoted:


    <quotes sniped>

    > So what is the experts opinion about the above?


    to be honest today I wont take the time to read the stuff at the links(maybee tomorrow), i
    read what you posted, it is all correct and mostly lines up with what I was saying when i
    posted the size description. I am sure all of it is correct, as with many things there
    are different ways to do the same thing, ive tested a few things, and I found what I feel
    works the best, Ive also read the work of others answering more detailed questions than
    what you posted, and my findings are the same as theirs.


    --
    Richard Reynolds
    Richard.Reynolds@usa.net
     
    Richard Reynolds, Aug 26, 2003
    #29
  10. Marx

    Boomer Guest

    "I have also found the story about pH level for dissolving aragonite/calcite to be
    different.
    If it is a nonsense, what is the true behind aragonite being better for reef then calcite?
    Please explain..."

    It is a myth and if it were so why can't anyone control their pH, Alk and Ca with a
    aragonite SD or a Calcite Ds ?All it **may do is to stop the pH from falling below is
    "floor value" of about pH 7.6. Such sands can actual create problems to a point as the alk
    and Ca in the tank react with the sand. Once the sand hits seawater things start to
    happen. The surfaces of the sand get "poisoned" with Hi-Mg Calcites,which precip out of
    solution onto the sand surface. This can cause a lowering of the alk, Mg and Ca to a
    point, but since Hi-Mg Calcites are so soluble they just go back in solution. The type of
    carbonate sand it is will determine how much it acts as a buffer to a degree, some affect
    it early while others like Dolomite affect it later. What ever the case may be it is short
    lived and sooner or later the sand will become coated with organics and bacteria and more
    or less make it useless as a buffer for Ca,Alk or pH. In a DSB if the pH lowers enough
    there may be some dissolution of the sand and if the pH then rises the sand can turn into
    a big "brick". We are really not sure yet what causes carbonate sands to turn into bricks,
    so don't run away with this. Many reefers use silica sand, well rounded grains are best.
    Silica sand for all practical purposes are inert and non-reactive.The diatom thing, if you
    use silica sand, is also a Myth. Aragonite sands are used or should be used as they are
    natural looking and oolitic aragonite sands are nice and round and smooth, so you are not
    tearing up the meofauana and microfauana (infauana) on sharp edges.

    In short, there is no real chemical reason to use carbonate sands no matter what someone
    tells you :) Yes aragonite is **slightly more soluble than calcite but I get a kick out
    of some saying how_while calcite does not readily dissolve until the pH falls well below
    8.0_ and makes you think that somehow Aragonite does .Even kalk, which is much more
    soluble than aragonite does to *readily dissolve .So what does, readily dissolve .........
    CaCl

    --
    Boomer

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
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    "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message news:bifa93.4s0.0@poczta.onet.pl...
    : "Boomer" <wcwing@chartermi.net> wrote in message
    news:vkmqs54kaipfa7@corp.supernews.com...
    : > That article doesn't even mention Coraline Sand and this is nonsense;
    : >
    : > "Aragonite can begin to dissolve, in fact, at a high pH over 8.0 (a still safe level
    for
    : > marine life), while calcite does not readily dissolve until the pH falls well below
    8.0.
    : > This means that calcite is not likely to impart any significant benefits
    : > (buffers/alkalinity) into the water until the pH falls to a level that is too
    dangerous
    : > for most marine life. In this regard, the old argument of dolomite & crushed coral
    versus
    : > non-calcareous freshwater "gravel" for marine aquariums in the early days was a moot
    point
    : > (they were all calcite). "
    :
    : I have also found the story about pH level for dissolving aragonite/calcite to be
    different.
    : If it is a nonsense, what is the true behind aragonite being better for reef then
    calcite?
    : Please explain...
     
    Boomer, Aug 27, 2003
    #30
  11. > By "people" I refer to the guys from Chicago area place:
    > http://www.acrotropic.com/html/image_gallery.html
    > They issued FAQ (http://www.acrotropic.com/html/faq.html)
    > Quoted:


    i spent a few minutes there just now, there not making real good comparisons one is
    definately damp the other is not, even there "super fine" seems to be not so far from
    sugar sized which isnt an exact measurement because it really isnt that important. its
    still not silt and apears to be exactly what I was taking about i find no data as to the
    exact grain size or even a summary size.

    > --**-- Do I have to clean / vacuum my AcroTropicT sand bed?
    > No. In fact this can have negative effects on your system.
    > Vacuuming will remove the very fine particles from the substrate.
    > These super fine particles are key to the efficiency of your DSB.
    > Think of it this way, put a bowling ball into a pail, fill another
    > pail with BB's. Which of the two has the most surface area? The
    > BB's do of course. This is the same with particle size in your DSB.
    > The more surface area you can create the better as this equates
    > to a larger area for processing debris.


    I agree with what they are saying

    > --**-- Do I need to rinse AcroTropic before I put it into my reef tank?
    > No. The answer her is the same as for the question above. Those
    > tiny particles you would wash away play a huge roll in the success
    > of your DSB. Your tank will be cloudy anywhere from 1 day to several
    > days, this is normal for new tanks that have not yet started
    > producing bacteria. Once bacteria starts to form, it will help settle
    > out the sand. We have not tried this method but many people claim
    > adding a piece of raw shrimp into the tank will kick start this cycle.


    and agree here

    > So what is the experts opinion about the above?


    i find nothing in conflict with what I was stating in my other posts, I didnt find any
    tech info on there sand except for its breakdown by weight

    I do recomend DSB's
    I dont recomend large sized sand
    argonite isnt going to provide any magic buffering.
    silicate sand isnt going to cause diatom blooms (alone)

    --
    Richard Reynolds
    Richard.Reynolds@usa.net
     
    Richard Reynolds, Aug 27, 2003
    #31
  12. Marx

    Marx Guest

    > It is a myth and if it were so why can't anyone control their pH, Alk and
    Ca with a
    > aragonite SD or a Calcite Ds ?All it **may do is to stop the pH from

    falling below is
    > "floor value" of about pH 7.6.


    "Aragonite can begin to dissolve, in fact, at a high pH over 8.0 "
    7.6 is meant to be for calcite sand
    I also read that after a while you must add aragonite sand to tank because
    it dissolves and layer of sand gets thinner


    > if the pH then rises the sand can turn into
    > a big "brick". We are really not sure yet what causes carbonate sands to

    turn into bricks,
    > so don't run away with this.

    I read that this can happens beacuase of dosing kalkwasser or critters
    activity. It can't happen only beacuse of solving

    > Many reefers use silica sand, well rounded grains are best.
    > Silica sand for all practical purposes are inert and non-reactive.The

    diatom thing, if you
    > use silica sand, is also a Myth. Aragonite sands are used or should be

    used as they are
    > natural looking and oolitic aragonite sands are nice and round and smooth,

    so you are not
    > tearing up the meofauana and microfauana (infauana) on sharp edges.

    So i will try to sum up:
    1)fine silica sand is ok
    2)fine CC sand is ok and can dissolves (is it calcite or aragonite, i still
    have no answer ;)
    CC sand isn't advised because of sharpness (for critters)
    3)fine aragonite sand is slightly better

    I also have one more question - there is no possibility to buy critters (or
    really live sand) here.
    Is it possible to colonize unlive sand from live rock? Does it happen?
     
    Marx, Aug 27, 2003
    #32
  13. Marx

    Marx Guest

    i know what spam is.
    I hoped you give me an answer rather than longe lecture ;)
     
    Marx, Aug 27, 2003
    #33
  14. "Marx" <mnazarko@nospam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:bihgu9$4g6$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
    > > It is a myth and if it were so why can't anyone control their pH, Alk and

    > Ca with a
    > > aragonite SD or a Calcite Ds ?All it **may do is to stop the pH from

    > falling below is
    > > "floor value" of about pH 7.6.

    >
    > "Aragonite can begin to dissolve, in fact, at a high pH over 8.0 "
    > 7.6 is meant to be for calcite sand
    > I also read that after a while you must add aragonite sand to tank because
    > it dissolves and layer of sand gets thinner


    if your arguing with me, ill take it im not that good with numbers, and if you call a ph
    of 8.1 benifitial to a tank whatever floats your boat, but if your arguing with boomer, id
    suggest you state your source, as he probibly has a zillion up his sleave :) ive never
    seen any source say that aragonite can begin to desolve at a ph over 8, as for adding new
    sand because it gets thinner, ive got a tank thats just recently reached the 3 year mark
    though its a plennum system, the sand level is exactly the same as it was when i set it
    up. I would say settling is probibly the larger reason to add more sand.

    > > if the pH then rises the sand can turn into
    > > a big "brick". We are really not sure yet what causes carbonate sands to

    > turn into bricks,
    > > so don't run away with this.

    > I read that this can happens beacuase of dosing kalkwasser or critters
    > activity. It can't happen only beacuse of solving


    gona leave this kinda alone, i have seen something i wanna refere to before i post a real
    response, especially if it would be me putting my foot in my mouth again :) .


    > So i will try to sum up:
    > 1)fine silica sand is ok

    yep
    > 2)fine CC sand is ok and can dissolves (is it calcite or aragonite, i still
    > have no answer ;)


    at least around where I live, and on this NG, CC is considered the larger crushed pieces
    of coral, not the sand sized pieces

    > CC sand isn't advised because of sharpness (for critters)


    and it traps fish crap :)

    > 3)fine aragonite sand is slightly better
    >


    > I also have one more question - there is no possibility to buy critters (or
    > really live sand) here.
    > Is it possible to colonize unlive sand from live rock? Does it happen?


    you can do this with just good quality LR. it just takes a tad longer

    try not buying but trading another local reefer :)

    --
    Richard Reynolds
    Richard.Reynolds@usa.net
     
    Richard Reynolds, Aug 27, 2003
    #34
  15. Marx

    Marx Guest

    > if your arguing with me, ill take it im not that good with numbers, and if
    you call a ph
    > of 8.1 benifitial to a tank whatever floats your boat, but if your arguing

    with boomer, id
    > suggest you state your source, as he probibly has a zillion up his sleave

    :) ive never
    > seen any source say that aragonite can begin to desolve at a ph over 8,

    I gave link a few times
    http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm

    > at least around where I live, and on this NG, CC is considered the larger

    crushed pieces
    > of coral, not the sand sized pieces

    Even in Poland i can buy CC with few grain sizes, from fine (like sand ) to
    big ones
    Have a look at this:
    http://www.hobby-dohse.de/aqua_e/produkte.php?showpg=9

    > try not buying but trading another local reefer :)

    there is only one local reefer ;) but things gets better
     
    Marx, Aug 27, 2003
    #35
  16. Marx

    Boomer Guest

    "I gave link a few times"

    Yah I know, I saw it posted what they said in quotes and said hogwash and will say again
    that statement is more or less BS

    Here maybe you would like to argue with my old friend

    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2002/chem.htm

    By the way look below Boomer, see that link ? It is there on all my posts, it may tell
    you something :) That is where I spend most of my time on the net. I post there allot

    --
    Boomer

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
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    "Marx" <mnazarko@nospam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:bihm1l$t16$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
    : > if your arguing with me, ill take it im not that good with numbers, and if
    : you call a ph
    : > of 8.1 benifitial to a tank whatever floats your boat, but if your arguing
    : with boomer, id
    : > suggest you state your source, as he probibly has a zillion up his sleave
    : :) ive never
    : > seen any source say that aragonite can begin to desolve at a ph over 8,
    : I gave link a few times
    : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm
    :
    : > at least around where I live, and on this NG, CC is considered the larger
    : crushed pieces
    : > of coral, not the sand sized pieces
    : Even in Poland i can buy CC with few grain sizes, from fine (like sand ) to
    : big ones
    : Have a look at this:
    : http://www.hobby-dohse.de/aqua_e/produkte.php?showpg=9
    :
    : > try not buying but trading another local reefer :)
    : there is only one local reefer ;) but things gets better
    :
    :
     
    Boomer, Aug 27, 2003
    #36
  17. Marx

    Boomer Guest

    "2)fine CC sand is ok and can dissolves (is it calcite or aragonite, i still
    have no answer ;)"

    It most certainly has been answered, by me

    CC =Crushed Coral and it says coral below

    "of all the calcium
    carbonate sands you see on marine beaches are aragonite, as it is aragonite that marine
    invert produce, e.g shells, ***coral, coralline algae etc.. "

    What part of this do you not understand ?


    --
    Boomer

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
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    Please Join Our Growing Membership
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    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
    "Marx" <mnazarko@nospam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:bihgu9$4g6$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
    : > It is a myth and if it were so why can't anyone control their pH, Alk and
    : Ca with a
    : > aragonite SD or a Calcite Ds ?All it **may do is to stop the pH from
    : falling below is
    : > "floor value" of about pH 7.6.
    :
    : "Aragonite can begin to dissolve, in fact, at a high pH over 8.0 "
    : 7.6 is meant to be for calcite sand
    : I also read that after a while you must add aragonite sand to tank because
    : it dissolves and layer of sand gets thinner
    :
    :
    : > if the pH then rises the sand can turn into
    : > a big "brick". We are really not sure yet what causes carbonate sands to
    : turn into bricks,
    : > so don't run away with this.
    : I read that this can happens beacuase of dosing kalkwasser or critters
    : activity. It can't happen only beacuse of solving
    :
    : > Many reefers use silica sand, well rounded grains are best.
    : > Silica sand for all practical purposes are inert and non-reactive.The
    : diatom thing, if you
    : > use silica sand, is also a Myth. Aragonite sands are used or should be
    : used as they are
    : > natural looking and oolitic aragonite sands are nice and round and smooth,
    : so you are not
    : > tearing up the meofauana and microfauana (infauana) on sharp edges.
    : So i will try to sum up:
    : 1)fine silica sand is ok
    : 2)fine CC sand is ok and can dissolves (is it calcite or aragonite, i still
    : have no answer ;)
    : CC sand isn't advised because of sharpness (for critters)
    : 3)fine aragonite sand is slightly better
    :
    : I also have one more question - there is no possibility to buy critters (or
    : really live sand) here.
    : Is it possible to colonize unlive sand from live rock? Does it happen?
    :
    :
     
    Boomer, Aug 27, 2003
    #37
  18. Marx

    Pszemol Guest

    "Marx" <mnazarko@nospam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:bihg43$1bk$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
    > I see what i did wrong.
    > I thought coraline sand=sand from crushed corals
    > Everything I wrote about "coraline sand" should be read as CC


    Then it is aragonite form of calcium carbonate, not calcite form.
     
    Pszemol, Aug 27, 2003
    #38
  19. Marx

    Pszemol Guest

    "Marx" <mnazarko@nospam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:bihh19$lee$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl...
    > i know what spam is.


    The question for "free and spam free server" did not imply that.
    Sorry for reading you wrong :)

    > I hoped you give me an answer rather than longe lecture ;)


    So you got both, the answer and the lecture... good luck.
     
    Pszemol, Aug 27, 2003
    #39
  20. Marx

    Pszemol Guest

    "Marx" <mnazarko@nospam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:bihhdg$mem$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl...
    > Is critters important part of your DSB, or you doesn't care about it?


    These critters are probably the main reason to have DSB.
    So yes, they are important :)
     
    Pszemol, Aug 27, 2003
    #40
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