Aquarists vs Marine Biologists

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by J R-S, Mar 18, 2006.

  1. AverageSchmuck wrote:
    > It can go on forever without anything positive ever resulting
    > from it.


    Nothing positive will ever result from dealing with Jaimie.

    George Patterson
    Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
    your slightly older self.
     
    George Patterson, Mar 24, 2006
    #81
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  2. Why is everyone so concentrated on stopping him as if he is the Third
    Reich or something .. So what!!!!! Seriously why should it bother you
    that someone out their feels your wasting your money.. Do you feel
    like your wasting your money? I waste my money everyday but hello its
    freaking money that is what you do with it waste it have a ball enjoy
    it .. when you die its not your money anymore J R-S ability to insult
    is uncannly sharp but so what. People act like you have never been
    called a name before. Go tell the teacher since he is obviously very
    effective in getting under your skin. Has it every occured to you that
    he wants your reaction because when you react he knows he already has
    you!

    Now that portion below has me .. You say "not facts, claims, or
    credentials" but wasnt it you that laughed at him over the fact he is
    hmm what was the tone you used .. oh yeah in a manner that you
    appeared to be better or above him cause you attained a comp sciene
    PHD 10 years ago. Seems to me it more about credentials than you say.
    So have you glanced over his shoulder at urinal yet to see who is
    larger?

    >Jaime's claims are actually intriguing and suggestive. It's frustrating that
    >he doesn't yet wish to provide more details, but that's his choice. This
    >debate was always about tone and attitude on this newsgroup; not facts, claims,
    >or credentials.


    I mean seriously .. Bunch of children and dont worry I wont post to
    this thread anylonger!
     
    AverageSchmuck, Mar 24, 2006
    #82
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  3. J R-S

    Cindy Guest

    Wayne Sallee typed:
    > I've got mine farther back than that, But most people
    > don't, so google is good for point out threads to people.
    >
    > Wayne Sallee
    > Wayne's Pets
    > Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    >
    >
    > AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/22/2006 6:58 PM:
    >> None of us are perfect. One of lifes hardest lessons is humilty.
    >> Some of us obviously never learned it while others have had a
    >> healthy dose.
    >> And BTW I could careless about your google link. Some of us have
    >> this group archived for about 6 months back headers and everything
    >> so please stop reminding me of your efficient use of google.


    Eh, I get rid of mine after 3 days. I can always find what I want again.
     
    Cindy, Mar 24, 2006
    #83
  4. J R-S

    Cindy Guest

    AverageSchmuck typed:
    > yeah but wouldnt you say that is a bit immature though.. He started
    > no he did.. You said she said .. But you did it first .. I got you
    > last .. etc.. It can go on forever without anything positive ever
    > resulting from it.


    That's true. You are right.
    I generally don't post much in this group because there are so many helpful,
    knowledgable people who know so much more than I do. I just jumped in here
    because whatshisbutt has been such a snot to everyone here who actually know
    what they're talking about and can/will back it up. So I'll jump back out
    now....
     
    Cindy, Mar 24, 2006
    #84
  5. J R-S

    Cindy Guest

    J R-S typed:
    > Believe me, I expect that by July it will be finished but, again, I
    > don't think that releasing anything will change the minds of anyone
    > here. Thanks God the people that has seen the filter working want
    > it and I have a pre-order for next year.
    >
    > jrs


    Hey, I hope it's great! I've been thinking for a long time about setting up
    my 150 again. If your system is affordable, maybe I'll be able to try it
    out. Waiting to see.
     
    Cindy, Mar 24, 2006
    #85
  6. J R-S

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    I'm a pack rat. I dont' like to through stuff away. I have
    all my e-mail going back over 10 years.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Cindy wrote on 3/24/2006 4:51 PM:
    > Wayne Sallee typed:
    >> I've got mine farther back than that, But most people
    >> don't, so google is good for point out threads to people.
    >>
    >> Wayne Sallee
    >> Wayne's Pets
    >> Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    >>
    >>
    >> AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/22/2006 6:58 PM:
    >>> None of us are perfect. One of lifes hardest lessons is humilty.
    >>> Some of us obviously never learned it while others have had a
    >>> healthy dose.
    >>> And BTW I could careless about your google link. Some of us have
    >>> this group archived for about 6 months back headers and everything
    >>> so please stop reminding me of your efficient use of google.

    >
    > Eh, I get rid of mine after 3 days. I can always find what I want again.
    >
    >
     
    Wayne Sallee, Mar 24, 2006
    #86
  7. J R-S

    J R-S Guest

    Well son, I am not giving my identity away. Who is we? just block me and
    that is it kid!

    jrs
    "TheRock" <none@none.com> wrote in message
    news:b5IUf.7265$092.6547@trndny04...
    > HOLY FREAKING THREADS !
    > THE LAST ONE THAT WAS THIS LONG WAS "WHAT'S THE BEST SALT "
    > AND GUESS WHO SPARKED THAT LONG DEBATE UP ?!?!
    > I'M STARTING TO SEE A PATTERN HERE.
    > IT SEEMS THAT JR-S IS STARVED FOR ATTENTION.
    >
    > HE POSTS, HE TICKS EVERYONE OFF. FALLS BACK ON I'M A BIO GUY AND THEN
    > NEVER BACKS UP ANY OF HIS CLAIMS.
    >
    > WHY DOESN'T HE POST ANY OF HIS JOURNALS WHEN HE ALWAYS FALLS BACK TO
    > WELL I'M A MARINE BIO GUY AND I WROTE JOURNALS FOR MIAMI U
    >
    > JR-S SHOW US YOUR WORK OR FADE TO BLACK.
    > WE ARE GROWING TIERED OF YOUR CORN HOLE.
    >
    >
    > "AverageSchmuck" <jschmoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:q5s5229es1kj33b7j9aj3ke6e8n1lhl6ie@4ax.com...
    >> yeah I know but even though different approach a still bit of tact and
    >> finesse still prevails in end with a constructive and positive result
    >> versus the slam bash he said she said point finger festival that is
    >> happening now. I know it takes two to tango and noone is innocent in
    >> the mudslinging just somewhere it has to stop cause it will never stop
    >> being negative without some sort of agreement. To be honest what I see
    >> is a claim that has absolutely no credibility until data has been
    >> offered to support it which none as of this post that I am aware of so
    >> just seems to me a worthless debate until and big if it is supplied.
    >>
    >> On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:45:55 GMT, Wayne Sallee <Wayne@WayneSallee.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Depends on how you pick him up :)
    >>>
    >>>I've caught lion fish with my hands.
    >>>
    >>>Wayne Sallee
    >>>Wayne's Pets
    >>>Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/23/2006 12:28 PM:
    >>>> Well example .. recently I think my lionfish I beleive dislocated his
    >>>> jaw .. He went over a week without eating . I simply added nutrients
    >>>> to water and patiently waited for him to be able to open his mouth
    >>>> wide enough to eat some scallops and shrimp parts from my acrlic stick
    >>>> ... Today finally he ate a shrimp .. Now if I attacked him do you think
    >>>> I would have gotten that result? I probably would have ended up with a
    >>>> very swollen painful hand
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:22:44 GMT, Wayne Sallee <Wayne@WayneSallee.com>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Maybe we have a slight glimmer of hope that he might be
    >>>>> able so offer some value to the newsgroup if he can
    >>>>> straiten his attitude out. He doesn't have a reef tank, so
    >>>>> that limits his knowledge, but maybe he will decide to
    >>>>> spend a little money, so that he can learn what it's
    >>>>> really like to keep a reef aquarium.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Wayne Sallee
    >>>>> Wayne's Pets
    >>>>> Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/23/2006 12:12 PM:
    >>>>>> Well yeah that part I understand and that was done however why does
    >>>>>> it
    >>>>>> continue?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:10:07 GMT, Wayne Sallee
    >>>>>> <Wayne@WayneSallee.com>
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Umm no you don't have it now. It's all about his claim to
    >>>>>>> be better, when he is not. If we had not disputed his
    >>>>>>> false claims, people could think that because he claimed
    >>>>>>> to be a biologist, that the way he said to set up a reef
    >>>>>>> tank would work, and they would then be sorely
    >>>>>>> disappointed when their corals started dying, because they
    >>>>>>> took advice from someone that claimed to be a biologist,
    >>>>>>> and they trusted his advice blindly.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> That's the great thing about this newsgroup, is that a
    >>>>>>> person can post a wrong answer, but there are lots of
    >>>>>>> other people that can come back and correct the answer.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Wayne Sallee
    >>>>>>> Wayne's Pets
    >>>>>>> Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/22/2006 12:09 PM:
    >>>>>>>> I think I get get it now ..
    >>>>>>>> 1. person made claims that go against what I have learned and
    >>>>>>>> understood and everyone else. Does this make them wrong. Maybe
    >>>>>>>> maybe
    >>>>>>>> not
    >>>>>>>> 2. Everyone asks for research data anything to back these claims.
    >>>>>>>> 3. none provided perosn says they plan on turning future profit
    >>>>>>>> 4. still none provided ... people start takeing cheap shots at each
    >>>>>>>> other
    >>>>>>>> 5. cheap shots are getting more brutal Both sides here are guilty
    >>>>>>>> 6. alleged person is now trying to slow it up a bit but is still
    >>>>>>>> not
    >>>>>>>> providing information
    >>>>>>>> 7. people still thowing stones at each other
    >>>>

    >>

    >
    >
     
    J R-S, Mar 25, 2006
    #87
  8. J R-S

    Don Geddis Guest

    AverageSchmuck <jschmoe@hotmail.com> wrote on Fri, 24 Mar 2006:
    > Seriously why should it bother you that someone out their feels your
    > wasting your money.. Do you feel like your wasting your money?


    His opinion of whether I'm wasting my money doesn't bother me at all.

    The replies were all in service of innocent new reefkeepers. Novices would
    pose a typical question, and Jaime would laugh at them and tell them they're
    wasting their money. The more experienced reefkeepers on this group wanted
    to set the record straight for the benefit of the lurkers, who might otherwise
    believe that Jaime's claims were the collected wisdom of reef aquarists.

    > Now that portion below has me .. You say "not facts, claims, or
    > credentials" but wasnt it you that laughed at him over the fact he is
    > hmm what was the tone you used .. oh yeah in a manner that you
    > appeared to be better or above him cause you attained a comp sciene
    > PHD 10 years ago. Seems to me it more about credentials than you say.


    You missed the sarcasm of my post. When a guy tells you over and over again
    "you're all ignorant -- believe me because I'm a Marine Biologist!", then it's
    kind of funny if he turns out to have far fewer qualifications than many of
    the other posters here (who, in turn, don't bother listing their background).

    I mentioned my PhD just for the irony. It doesn't matter to _me_, and it
    shouldn't matter to the group (for which it's basically irrelevant). But for
    a guy like Jaime, who claimed that we were all ignorant and he was the only
    scientist here, I find it funny that I'm at least qualified to tell who a
    good scientist is, and in the end it turns out that he isn't much of one.

    This is all on top of the fact that it shouldn't matter whether you're a formal
    scientist or not. What most people here are interested in is the details of
    what you've actually done with reef aquariums, and what you observed while
    doing it. How was your tank set up? What grew? How fast? What died?

    I'm sure everyone's got their own pet theories about what matters. But the
    ocean is incredibly complex, and it's hard to be sure we have the full story
    about any particular species. So theories aren't generally as important in
    the hobby as actual data. What (exactly!) did you do, and what happened?

    Jaime's frustrating mostly because he makes enticing claims, that we would all
    love to be true, but then refuses to provide any public data backing it up.
    And then attempts to mock everyone else for wasting their money. It's an
    unfortunate arrogance of a not-quite-authority figure.

    -- Don
    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Don Geddis don@geddis.org http://reef.geddis.org/
    Raspberry walks into a bar, bartender says "Sorry, we don't serve food here."
    -- On Fruitopia bottle, "raspberry psychic lemonade" flavor
     
    Don Geddis, Mar 25, 2006
    #88
  9. J R-S

    J R-S Guest

    Listen Don!
    I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My aquariums
    by any means will be as good as any put together by a professional aquarist.
    That is not my intention.
    I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
    than 8 months without a water change.
    Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
    alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
    But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they? so,
    don't make the choice for them...

    jrs
    "Don Geddis" <don@geddis.org> wrote in message
    news:87acbf2uu2.fsf@geddis.org...
    > AverageSchmuck <jschmoe@hotmail.com> wrote on Fri, 24 Mar 2006:
    >> Seriously why should it bother you that someone out their feels your
    >> wasting your money.. Do you feel like your wasting your money?

    >
    > His opinion of whether I'm wasting my money doesn't bother me at all.
    >
    > The replies were all in service of innocent new reefkeepers. Novices
    > would
    > pose a typical question, and Jaime would laugh at them and tell them
    > they're
    > wasting their money. The more experienced reefkeepers on this group
    > wanted
    > to set the record straight for the benefit of the lurkers, who might
    > otherwise
    > believe that Jaime's claims were the collected wisdom of reef aquarists.
    >
    >> Now that portion below has me .. You say "not facts, claims, or
    >> credentials" but wasnt it you that laughed at him over the fact he is
    >> hmm what was the tone you used .. oh yeah in a manner that you
    >> appeared to be better or above him cause you attained a comp sciene
    >> PHD 10 years ago. Seems to me it more about credentials than you say.

    >
    > You missed the sarcasm of my post. When a guy tells you over and over
    > again
    > "you're all ignorant -- believe me because I'm a Marine Biologist!", then
    > it's
    > kind of funny if he turns out to have far fewer qualifications than many
    > of
    > the other posters here (who, in turn, don't bother listing their
    > background).
    >
    > I mentioned my PhD just for the irony. It doesn't matter to _me_, and it
    > shouldn't matter to the group (for which it's basically irrelevant). But
    > for
    > a guy like Jaime, who claimed that we were all ignorant and he was the
    > only
    > scientist here, I find it funny that I'm at least qualified to tell who a
    > good scientist is, and in the end it turns out that he isn't much of one.
    >
    > This is all on top of the fact that it shouldn't matter whether you're a
    > formal
    > scientist or not. What most people here are interested in is the details
    > of
    > what you've actually done with reef aquariums, and what you observed while
    > doing it. How was your tank set up? What grew? How fast? What died?
    >
    > I'm sure everyone's got their own pet theories about what matters. But
    > the
    > ocean is incredibly complex, and it's hard to be sure we have the full
    > story
    > about any particular species. So theories aren't generally as important
    > in
    > the hobby as actual data. What (exactly!) did you do, and what happened?
    >
    > Jaime's frustrating mostly because he makes enticing claims, that we would
    > all
    > love to be true, but then refuses to provide any public data backing it
    > up.
    > And then attempts to mock everyone else for wasting their money. It's an
    > unfortunate arrogance of a not-quite-authority figure.
    >
    > -- Don
    > _______________________________________________________________________________
    > Don Geddis don@geddis.org
    > http://reef.geddis.org/
    > Raspberry walks into a bar, bartender says "Sorry, we don't serve food
    > here."
    > -- On Fruitopia bottle, "raspberry psychic lemonade" flavor
     
    J R-S, Mar 25, 2006
    #89
  10. J R-S

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    Going 8 months without a water change is not impressive.
    It's no big deal. It's not a great accomplishment. Going 8
    months without a water change is nothing. It's like a
    person saying that they had a goldfish live for a wopping
    2 years. Big deal. That's nothing.

    But how about putting a picture of your inhabitants on
    your web site for us to see.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    J R-S wrote on 3/25/2006 8:27 AM:
    > Listen Don!
    > I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My aquariums
    > by any means will be as good as any put together by a professional aquarist.
    > That is not my intention.
    > I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
    > than 8 months without a water change.
    > Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
    > alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
    > But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they? so,
    > don't make the choice for them...
    >
    > jrs
    > "Don Geddis" <don@geddis.org> wrote in message
    > news:87acbf2uu2.fsf@geddis.org...
    >> AverageSchmuck <jschmoe@hotmail.com> wrote on Fri, 24 Mar 2006:
    >>> Seriously why should it bother you that someone out their feels your
    >>> wasting your money.. Do you feel like your wasting your money?

    >> His opinion of whether I'm wasting my money doesn't bother me at all.
    >>
    >> The replies were all in service of innocent new reefkeepers. Novices
    >> would
    >> pose a typical question, and Jaime would laugh at them and tell them
    >> they're
    >> wasting their money. The more experienced reefkeepers on this group
    >> wanted
    >> to set the record straight for the benefit of the lurkers, who might
    >> otherwise
    >> believe that Jaime's claims were the collected wisdom of reef aquarists.
    >>
    >>> Now that portion below has me .. You say "not facts, claims, or
    >>> credentials" but wasnt it you that laughed at him over the fact he is
    >>> hmm what was the tone you used .. oh yeah in a manner that you
    >>> appeared to be better or above him cause you attained a comp sciene
    >>> PHD 10 years ago. Seems to me it more about credentials than you say.

    >> You missed the sarcasm of my post. When a guy tells you over and over
    >> again
    >> "you're all ignorant -- believe me because I'm a Marine Biologist!", then
    >> it's
    >> kind of funny if he turns out to have far fewer qualifications than many
    >> of
    >> the other posters here (who, in turn, don't bother listing their
    >> background).
    >>
    >> I mentioned my PhD just for the irony. It doesn't matter to _me_, and it
    >> shouldn't matter to the group (for which it's basically irrelevant). But
    >> for
    >> a guy like Jaime, who claimed that we were all ignorant and he was the
    >> only
    >> scientist here, I find it funny that I'm at least qualified to tell who a
    >> good scientist is, and in the end it turns out that he isn't much of one.
    >>
    >> This is all on top of the fact that it shouldn't matter whether you're a
    >> formal
    >> scientist or not. What most people here are interested in is the details
    >> of
    >> what you've actually done with reef aquariums, and what you observed while
    >> doing it. How was your tank set up? What grew? How fast? What died?
    >>
    >> I'm sure everyone's got their own pet theories about what matters. But
    >> the
    >> ocean is incredibly complex, and it's hard to be sure we have the full
    >> story
    >> about any particular species. So theories aren't generally as important
    >> in
    >> the hobby as actual data. What (exactly!) did you do, and what happened?
    >>
    >> Jaime's frustrating mostly because he makes enticing claims, that we would
    >> all
    >> love to be true, but then refuses to provide any public data backing it
    >> up.
    >> And then attempts to mock everyone else for wasting their money. It's an
    >> unfortunate arrogance of a not-quite-authority figure.
    >>
    >> -- Don
    >> _______________________________________________________________________________
    >> Don Geddis don@geddis.org
    >> http://reef.geddis.org/
    >> Raspberry walks into a bar, bartender says "Sorry, we don't serve food
    >> here."
    >> -- On Fruitopia bottle, "raspberry psychic lemonade" flavor

    >
    >
     
    Wayne Sallee, Mar 25, 2006
    #90
  11. J R-S

    Cindy Guest

    Wayne Sallee typed:
    > I'm a pack rat. I dont' like to through stuff away. I have
    > all my e-mail going back over 10 years.


    I'd probably have all my personal email, but I never back it up and the pc
    has crashed a couple times over the years. I don't consider newsgroup posts
    email, though.

    I keep all my STUFF instead...<rolling eyes>
     
    Cindy, Mar 25, 2006
    #91
  12. J R-S

    Cindy Guest

    J R-S typed:
    > Listen Don!
    > I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My
    > aquariums by any means will be as good as any put together by a
    > professional aquarist. That is not my intention.
    > I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for
    > more than 8 months without a water change.
    > Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
    > alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
    > But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't
    > they? so, don't make the choice for them...
    >
    > jrs


    You don't seem to grasp the fact that they don't *HAVE* the "choice" yet,
    because your wonderful new system is not available. So it's *not* an
    alternative, is it?

    If they try to run a reef tank now without the "overrated" expensive
    illumination that is all we have AVAILABLE at this time, it would *really*
    be a waste, since their corals would die without the light.

    Pre-advertising something that's not for sale could cost a lot of newbies a
    lot of money, be cruel and frustrating and probably turn them off the hobby.

    Why don't you come back when it's *on the market* and give us the link.
     
    Cindy, Mar 25, 2006
    #92
  13. J R-S

    Cindy Guest

    Cindy typed:
    > AverageSchmuck typed:
    >> yeah but wouldnt you say that is a bit immature though.. He started
    >> no he did.. You said she said .. But you did it first .. I got you
    >> last .. etc.. It can go on forever without anything positive ever
    >> resulting from it.

    >
    > That's true. You are right.
    > I generally don't post much in this group because there are so many
    > helpful, knowledgable people who know so much more than I do. I
    > just jumped in here because whatshisbutt has been such a snot to
    > everyone here who actually know what they're talking about and
    > can/will back it up. So I'll jump back out now....


    Sorry....I couldn't do it....I posted again. The ignorance was too much for
    me.....
    *sob*
     
    Cindy, Mar 25, 2006
    #93
  14. J R-S

    Pszemol Guest

    "J R-S" <notgivingit@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:yvbVf.3334$qe.2009@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
    > Listen Don!
    > I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My aquariums
    > by any means will be as good as any put together by a professional aquarist.
    > That is not my intention.
    > I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
    > than 8 months without a water change.
    > Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
    > alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
    > But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they? so,
    > don't make the choice for them...


    Nobody here recomended overrated ilumination for a fish only tank...
    What you call "overrated ilumination" is used on the SPS corals
    (and you probably do not even know what SPS means, since it is
    a hobbyist term, not scientific... right?). Only light-loving
    corals from shallow waters require strong lights and metal halide
    fixtures costing hundreds of dollars. Most other aquarium life,
    including all "fish only tanks with little corals" can do fine with
    standard fixtures available at Petco or even daylight lamps from Home Depot.
    As you can see, what you have done is not revolutionary at all...
    Similarly to using sand and activated carbon for filtration.
     
    Pszemol, Mar 25, 2006
    #94
  15. J R-S

    Pszemol Guest

    "Cindy" <cinshep@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:uieVf.8513$tN3.2895@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
    > You don't seem to grasp the fact that they don't *HAVE* the "choice" yet,
    > because your wonderful new system is not available. So it's *not* an
    > alternative, is it?
    >
    > If they try to run a reef tank now without the "overrated" expensive
    > illumination that is all we have AVAILABLE at this time, it would *really*
    > be a waste, since their corals would die without the light.
    >
    > Pre-advertising something that's not for sale could cost a lot of newbies a
    > lot of money, be cruel and frustrating and probably turn them off the hobby.
    >
    > Why don't you come back when it's *on the market* and give us the link.


    Cindy, please note he is NOT talking about a reef tank.
    He is talking about a fish only tank with little corals.
    And considering this, it makes a whole different story.
     
    Pszemol, Mar 25, 2006
    #95
  16. J R-S

    Pat Guest

    I'm a new aquarist. I have a fish only tank. The reason I don't have
    anemone and coral is that I don't wish to spend all of my money on
    lighting and other such things(my choice). So, please J R-S, tell me,
    what are my alternatives? Where can I go for these alternatives? How
    much am I looking to spend? It's irresponsible not to tell me...so,
    tell me. Give me a choice.

    I believe that is the sentiment of the group. Not that you have
    ingenuity and piss and vinegar. Not that you have a revolutionary new
    system. The crux of the matter is you are recommending invisible things
    to new aquarists...and sharing an irresponsible amount of your findings.
    Telling people it's ok to go and spend almost nothing on lights and
    filters and keep anything they want...it's simply not true today(maybe
    with the JRS patented system it will be many years down the road), it's
    been proved time and time again. Now if you have a *way* to do
    that...fine. But until everybody else can do it(which will be many,
    many years, 8 months is not scientifically significant), keep it quiet.
    You are encouraging cruelty to animals. I don't doubt that you have a
    tank full of critters that you have kept alive for 8 months...there was
    a guy who came on here saying he left his tank in a divorce situation
    and the wife didn't do water changes for 2 years and he lost like one
    fish...he didn't have the JRS patented filtration system. The hobby
    isn't simply to keep critters, it's to keep them healthy and as happy as
    they can be in a glass box. So that many many years of joy can be had.
    That's why we spend the money.

    I have cats too. I *can* go 8 months without changing their litter box,
    I'm confident they'd live...but is that responsible to make them fester
    in their own mess? Just a thought.



    J R-S wrote:
    > Listen Don!
    > I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My aquariums
    > by any means will be as good as any put together by a professional aquarist.
    > That is not my intention.
    > I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
    > than 8 months without a water change.
    > Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
    > alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
    > But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they? so,
    > don't make the choice for them...
     
    Pat, Mar 25, 2006
    #96
  17. J R-S

    J R-S Guest

    Relax Wayne!
    You sound like a little upset kid!
    I am not telling dude! remember, it is just my imagination, none of this is
    real to you, don't worry, you keep it up with your systems that I will stay
    in my own world.

    jrs
    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    news:4425564C.8020408@WayneSallee.com...
    > Going 8 months without a water change is not impressive. It's no big deal.
    > It's not a great accomplishment. Going 8 months without a water change is
    > nothing. It's like a person saying that they had a goldfish live for a
    > wopping 2 years. Big deal. That's nothing.
    >
    > But how about putting a picture of your inhabitants on your web site for
    > us to see.
    >
    > Wayne Sallee
    > Wayne's Pets
    > Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    >
    >
    > J R-S wrote on 3/25/2006 8:27 AM:
    >> Listen Don!
    >> I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My
    >> aquariums by any means will be as good as any put together by a
    >> professional aquarist. That is not my intention.
    >> I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
    >> than 8 months without a water change.
    >> Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
    >> alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
    >> But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they?
    >> so, don't make the choice for them...
    >>
    >> jrs
    >> "Don Geddis" <don@geddis.org> wrote in message
    >> news:87acbf2uu2.fsf@geddis.org...
    >>> AverageSchmuck <jschmoe@hotmail.com> wrote on Fri, 24 Mar 2006:
    >>>> Seriously why should it bother you that someone out their feels your
    >>>> wasting your money.. Do you feel like your wasting your money?
    >>> His opinion of whether I'm wasting my money doesn't bother me at all.
    >>>
    >>> The replies were all in service of innocent new reefkeepers. Novices
    >>> would
    >>> pose a typical question, and Jaime would laugh at them and tell them
    >>> they're
    >>> wasting their money. The more experienced reefkeepers on this group
    >>> wanted
    >>> to set the record straight for the benefit of the lurkers, who might
    >>> otherwise
    >>> believe that Jaime's claims were the collected wisdom of reef aquarists.
    >>>
    >>>> Now that portion below has me .. You say "not facts, claims, or
    >>>> credentials" but wasnt it you that laughed at him over the fact he is
    >>>> hmm what was the tone you used .. oh yeah in a manner that you
    >>>> appeared to be better or above him cause you attained a comp sciene
    >>>> PHD 10 years ago. Seems to me it more about credentials than you say.
    >>> You missed the sarcasm of my post. When a guy tells you over and over
    >>> again
    >>> "you're all ignorant -- believe me because I'm a Marine Biologist!",
    >>> then it's
    >>> kind of funny if he turns out to have far fewer qualifications than many
    >>> of
    >>> the other posters here (who, in turn, don't bother listing their
    >>> background).
    >>>
    >>> I mentioned my PhD just for the irony. It doesn't matter to _me_, and
    >>> it
    >>> shouldn't matter to the group (for which it's basically irrelevant).
    >>> But for
    >>> a guy like Jaime, who claimed that we were all ignorant and he was the
    >>> only
    >>> scientist here, I find it funny that I'm at least qualified to tell who
    >>> a
    >>> good scientist is, and in the end it turns out that he isn't much of
    >>> one.
    >>>
    >>> This is all on top of the fact that it shouldn't matter whether you're a
    >>> formal
    >>> scientist or not. What most people here are interested in is the
    >>> details of
    >>> what you've actually done with reef aquariums, and what you observed
    >>> while
    >>> doing it. How was your tank set up? What grew? How fast? What died?
    >>>
    >>> I'm sure everyone's got their own pet theories about what matters. But
    >>> the
    >>> ocean is incredibly complex, and it's hard to be sure we have the full
    >>> story
    >>> about any particular species. So theories aren't generally as important
    >>> in
    >>> the hobby as actual data. What (exactly!) did you do, and what
    >>> happened?
    >>>
    >>> Jaime's frustrating mostly because he makes enticing claims, that we
    >>> would all
    >>> love to be true, but then refuses to provide any public data backing it
    >>> up.
    >>> And then attempts to mock everyone else for wasting their money. It's
    >>> an
    >>> unfortunate arrogance of a not-quite-authority figure.
    >>>
    >>> -- Don
    >>> _______________________________________________________________________________
    >>> Don Geddis don@geddis.org http://reef.geddis.org/
    >>> Raspberry walks into a bar, bartender says "Sorry, we don't serve food
    >>> here."
    >>> -- On Fruitopia bottle, "raspberry psychic lemonade" flavor

    >>
     
    J R-S, Mar 25, 2006
    #97
  18. J R-S

    J R-S Guest

    You are right about your observation.
    In this thread, THAT SHOULD'VE BEEN DEAD A LONG TIME AGO! we are argueing
    about two different systems.
    Is just that a while back, when all the confussion started and the mixed up
    happened, your friend Wayne, argued that even anemonies needed that light
    and I said now, then everyone started defending the expensive illumination
    refering to corals and I said it is not needed for my systems.
    Well, I am not "trying" to say that it was Wayne's fault (an aquarist) I am
    saying that it is!

    jrs
    "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
    news:e036r4.2g8.1@poczta.onet.pl...
    > "J R-S" <notgivingit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:yvbVf.3334$qe.2009@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
    >> Listen Don!
    >> I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My
    >> aquariums by any means will be as good as any put together by a
    >> professional aquarist. That is not my intention.
    >> I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
    >> than 8 months without a water change.
    >> Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
    >> alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
    >> But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they?
    >> so, don't make the choice for them...

    >
    > Nobody here recomended overrated ilumination for a fish only tank...
    > What you call "overrated ilumination" is used on the SPS corals
    > (and you probably do not even know what SPS means, since it is
    > a hobbyist term, not scientific... right?). Only light-loving
    > corals from shallow waters require strong lights and metal halide
    > fixtures costing hundreds of dollars. Most other aquarium life,
    > including all "fish only tanks with little corals" can do fine with
    > standard fixtures available at Petco or even daylight lamps from Home
    > Depot.
    > As you can see, what you have done is not revolutionary at all...
    > Similarly to using sand and activated carbon for filtration.
     
    J R-S, Mar 25, 2006
    #98
  19. J R-S

    Pszemol Guest

    "J R-S" <notgivingit@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%YeVf.1992$sU4.152@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
    > You are right about your observation.
    > In this thread, THAT SHOULD'VE BEEN DEAD A LONG TIME AGO! we are argueing
    > about two different systems.
    > Is just that a while back, when all the confussion started and the mixed up
    > happened, your friend Wayne, argued that even anemonies needed that light
    > and I said now, then everyone started defending the expensive illumination
    > refering to corals and I said it is not needed for my systems.
    > Well, I am not "trying" to say that it was Wayne's fault (an aquarist) I am
    > saying that it is!


    Try to understand, that people keeping animals not requiring expensive
    lights do not buy expensive lights... Nobody is crazy enough to spend
    money on stuff they do not really need. The same is with filtration...
    Keeping one guppy fish in a 100 gallon tank will not require expensive
    filtration... All is in details: what animals, how many, how big tank etc...
    If you try to claim something extraordinary, than you need to provide
    extraordinary proof. And this proof is your responsibility as claimant.
    So far, from what you have said, I have not noticed anything extraordinary.
    But you claim it is something like that, something worth patenting...
    It is not Wayne who said you have great invention worth a patent, you did!
     
    Pszemol, Mar 25, 2006
    #99
  20. J R-S

    J R-S Guest

    Well Pat, I am not a babysitter, if you are in need of attention, go to your
    dad or your mom.
    If all you want is an illumination for your tank, well, I am using an All
    Glass 36" TT on a 100 gals aquarium.
    Now, go and sin no more! I hope I acted responsibly..
    Oh! I forgot, the filtering system, well that I am not telling yet!

    jrs
    "Pat" <ozman213@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:2VeVf.20609$iR1.8201@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
    > I'm a new aquarist. I have a fish only tank. The reason I don't have
    > anemone and coral is that I don't wish to spend all of my money on
    > lighting and other such things(my choice). So, please J R-S, tell me,
    > what are my alternatives? Where can I go for these alternatives? How
    > much am I looking to spend? It's irresponsible not to tell me...so, tell
    > me. Give me a choice.
    >
    > I believe that is the sentiment of the group. Not that you have ingenuity
    > and piss and vinegar. Not that you have a revolutionary new system. The
    > crux of the matter is you are recommending invisible things to new
    > aquarists...and sharing an irresponsible amount of your findings. Telling
    > people it's ok to go and spend almost nothing on lights and filters and
    > keep anything they want...it's simply not true today(maybe with the JRS
    > patented system it will be many years down the road), it's been proved
    > time and time again. Now if you have a *way* to do that...fine. But
    > until everybody else can do it(which will be many, many years, 8 months is
    > not scientifically significant), keep it quiet. You are encouraging
    > cruelty to animals. I don't doubt that you have a tank full of critters
    > that you have kept alive for 8 months...there was a guy who came on here
    > saying he left his tank in a divorce situation and the wife didn't do
    > water changes for 2 years and he lost like one fish...he didn't have the
    > JRS patented filtration system. The hobby isn't simply to keep critters,
    > it's to keep them healthy and as happy as they can be in a glass box. So
    > that many many years of joy can be had. That's why we spend the money.
    >
    > I have cats too. I *can* go 8 months without changing their litter box,
    > I'm confident they'd live...but is that responsible to make them fester in
    > their own mess? Just a thought.
    >
    >
    >
    > J R-S wrote:
    >> Listen Don!
    >> I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My
    >> aquariums by any means will be as good as any put together by a
    >> professional aquarist. That is not my intention.
    >> I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
    >> than 8 months without a water change.
    >> Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
    >> alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
    >> But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they?
    >> so, don't make the choice for them...
     
    J R-S, Mar 25, 2006
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