Black crap on my sand!

I wouldn't run a DSB unless it is separate from the tank (like in a refugium), so that you can disconnect it if trouble arises. Basically for the same reason Yote stated -- if it's in your display tank, there's no way to prevent a crash if it gets disturbed.
 
Yeah, that's what I read about a DSB when I was researching things over a year ago. That's why I don't have one now!

Thanks for the info. I'm going to start another thread about the livestock and pH. Maybe someone else can chime in on it.
 
It's very hard to raise the pH to 8.6 and keep it there just because of the co2 present in the tank water and in the air in your house. If you dose baking soda, it will temporarily raise the pH but it will soon drop back down to the level it was before due to the co2 in the water column. Dosing too much baking soda in an effort to keep the pH high will result in an alk level too high, which can be very harmful to the corals in the tank. The best way and probably safest way to raise pH and keep it higher than it normally is, is to use kalkwasser. Kalk is usually used to maintain calcium and alk levels so you have a little more leeway in that adding larger amounts won't push the calcium and alk to unacceptable levels as fast as baking soda will push alk too high.

Did you get your response at Wetwebmedia from Bob Fenner? Saying your water is too clean doesn't sound like something Bob would say.
 
No, Bob suggested that I raise the pH to shock the system. Other "experts" and I don't know that Bob is an expert but assume he is, are telling me that a zero nitrate, zero phosphate systems is too clean and can invite issues with the sand, live rock and softer corals.

I'm looking at all advice, including WWM, whose site is a nightmare to navigate, and trying to figure out what to do.
 
New development.....

I decided to remove the phosban reactor and fire up the carbon reactor for a few days. I also decide not to mess with the stuff on the sand. It is pretty nasty. It is now producing bubbles. What does this mean?

I took some tests and

pH 8.2
Ammonia looks to be .25 More than I have ever had since the initial cycle. (fish seem fine though. Going to retest in an hour or so.)
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 2.5 maybe? Not zero but definitely not 5.0
Phosphate is .25 ...... maybe.....positive maybe.....who knows! The test showed .25 though.
KH is up to 8 (ELSO test kit, 16 drops with a definite colour change this time.)
Temp is 80.3
SG 1.026
Ca is 480

I'm going to start taking the sand out tomorrow by siphoning it through a tube, and into a filter sock set inside the sump so I retain the water and capture the sand. I'll let you know how that goes!
 
Thought I'd follow up with my failure.

Siphoning didn't work. I tried a 3/4" ID hose, run back to the sump through a filter sock. With just the hose, the clumps are too big and clog it. I switched to the wide mouth siphon tube and it picked up lots of sand, but the stuff I'm trying to remove is heavy and falls back to the sand bed.

The tank looks like crap, my fish are pissed, the water is cloudy from me kicking up the sand and I'm just about sick of dealing with this issue. If I don't stir this stuff up twice a day, it gets so thick on the sand that it breaks up in clumps.

I'm about ready to re-home my fish, which I would miss dearly, and sell my corals. If I wouldn't take such a huge hit on the equipment, I would just sell this setup and do something else. I've got so much invested at this point though I can't. There has to be an answer.

Next up is a blackout to see if it will have any effect. I doubt it will, but I gotta try something.
 
At this point, I'd suggest picking up a 55g tank (you can probably find one on CL for cheap) and move your fish, inverts, and corals to it, along with your light and any rocks that aren't affected. (A large plastic tub would work too if you can't find a cheap 55). Then I'd drain the remaining water, remove the sand by hand (using a plastic beach shovel comes to mind) and throw it away, and totally clean out your tank w/ a water and vinegar mixture. Then I'd set the tank back up and just leave it bare bottom for a while. You can easily add sand later without a problem (both Samhain and I have done so to a 90g). You might also want to scrub some of the rocks with a soft bristle brush if they have any algae on them; and if you really want to go all the way, then I'd boil your rocks and leave them to dry in the sun, and then put them back in and recycle your tank. I know this all sounds like a complete PITA, but its better than rehoming your fish and throwing in the towel entirely. My hope is that if you can just remove the sand and leave the tank bare bottom then you can eliminate it since your rocks seem to be free from it.


Edit: A few other thoughts - I would try the black out route first before dismantling your tank. I'm also wondering if your tank gets any natural sunlight on it? (I thought mine didn't but discovered it got very early morning sun which contributed to cyano on my sand a few months back).
 
Just a follow up.

I have blacked out the tank. Should I do 3 or 4 days? I guess I could take a look after 3 and judge by that. Anything specifically I should test for during the black out? Something that might give me an idea as to how things might be progressing or a clue as to what this crap is? FWIW, I'm leaning towards some kind of dino at this point. also, should I black out the sump or would it be okay to leave the light on down there?

At this point buying another tank is out of the question. I would LOVE to have a spare/hospital/quarantine/other tank, but I have nowhere to put it and they ain't cheap around here. I will keep my eyes open for a dirt cheap one though. Maybe even twin 20's. I have enough spare lighting to support 2 tanks if I can find them. Placement? Well, I'm not sure about that. If I did buy them I guess I could build a dog house and put them out there. Why not? Thats where I would be spending all my time if I did!
 
Be sure you are doing good water changes before, during and after your blackout otherwise the dying algae will just become food for anything that lives though the blackout
 
Yep. Did a WC today. Planning on one Saturday and one Monday. I'm going to run both reactors the whole time too and have installed a sock.
 
You know last time I did this I felt bad and I do this time too. I can't help but put myself in the fish's place. How did I feel in the middle of winter in Chicago not seeing the sun for days or weeks. Dark, dreary, depressed. In the wild they would never see dark like this for extended periods of time. Sure, if a Hurricane or Typhoon came through it would be a little less light, but still there would be some light.

Just me being me. I feel bad for the little fishies! AND the corals. Should I turn the lights down when I uncover the tank and gradually increase the level like I was acclimating coral or should I just let the light shine?
 
Nope, need to reaclimate the corals to the light. And the fish should be fine without the light, just a very calm restful long night for them.
 
Not sure if I missed this or not but what stuck out at me was the fact that you were feeding large amounts and then neglecting the tank for a few days. This tells me that the food settled to the bottom where cyano will take hold. Keep a small powerhead sweeping across the sand and pick up a diamond goby so that he can keep stirring the sand bed while eating any leftover food down there.
 
Not really feeding large amounts. I have 10 fish and feed one cube of Sally's or the equivalent of Rods once a day. I don't really think that constitutes lots of food. My CUC does a pretty good job. Add to that I have 0.0 Nitrates and 0.0 Nitrites as well as very low, if any, phosphates. I run Phosban 24/7. That indicates that the tank is dealing well with any food that might be left over.

I would hardly call leaving the stuff growing on the sand neglecting the tank. If anything I over do it when dealing with the tank. Leaving it alone was an experiment to see what, if anything, it turned into. Result? A large mass on the sand that does not fit the description, or my previous experience, with that of Cyano.

As I mentioned, I have 10 fish. Picking up another is not possible.

FLOW does not seem to effect this at all. If anything, increased flow is making it worse. (I won't go there right now......) The flow in my tank is currently sitting at 39.02 times per hour. Flow is not a problem. (Okay, just a little. :) )
 
I'd just peak at it on day 3 if it was me and go from there.
As for testing. I don't know that it would do any good. MIGHT get a nitrate reading, but I even doubt that.

What I would do, Is the day I uncovered the tank,I'd do a 50% water change and remove any of the crud that's left.
 
I did a 10 gallon WC this morning, and with the lights out took a peak. Everyone is still alive, which is good, the sand is not black but.........its oviously still clumped together on the surface and slightly dark. I'm not sure this is going to do much but I'll let the black out continue.
 

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