Black spots on my cleaner shrimp

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by electroblake@gmail.com, May 29, 2006.

  1. One of my cleaner shrimp has developed some very dark black spots over
    his back. I noticed them a few days ago and took this picture
    (warning, it's a 1.4M file):

    http://www.papercanary.org/blake/fishy/cleaner_spots.jpg

    This comes only a few days after I started to notice that only two of
    my three cleaners were visible at any given time. At first I thought
    maybe the third had just molted and was hiding until it's exoskeleton
    hardened (this happened when I got my first cleaner, he molted and went
    into hiding and I thought he had died so I went and got a couple more,
    three days later I discovered I had three cleaners after all). Now I'm
    kind of worried that these black spots are some kind of infection and
    that I'm going to loose the guy in the picture as well. Has anyone
    ever seen anything like this before? He also seems to pick at himself
    more than usual.

    Do cleaner shrimp typically clean each other?

    Thanks,
    Blake.
     
    electroblake@gmail.com, May 29, 2006
    #1
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  2. electroblake@gmail.com

    TheRock Guest

    Not likely a problem by itself... but perhaps indicative of a difficulty
    with low biomineral and/or alkaline content in your water... a real issue
    with molting...
    http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clrshrpdisfaqs.htm


    <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1148933445.256772.169270@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > One of my cleaner shrimp has developed some very dark black spots over
    > his back. I noticed them a few days ago and took this picture
    > (warning, it's a 1.4M file):
    >
    > http://www.papercanary.org/blake/fishy/cleaner_spots.jpg
    >
    > This comes only a few days after I started to notice that only two of
    > my three cleaners were visible at any given time. At first I thought
    > maybe the third had just molted and was hiding until it's exoskeleton
    > hardened (this happened when I got my first cleaner, he molted and went
    > into hiding and I thought he had died so I went and got a couple more,
    > three days later I discovered I had three cleaners after all). Now I'm
    > kind of worried that these black spots are some kind of infection and
    > that I'm going to loose the guy in the picture as well. Has anyone
    > ever seen anything like this before? He also seems to pick at himself
    > more than usual.
    >
    > Do cleaner shrimp typically clean each other?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Blake.
    >
     
    TheRock, May 29, 2006
    #2
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  3. electroblake@gmail.com

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    It's ok, it will disappear when it molts again.

    The general concensis is that those are caused by bruising.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    electroblake@gmail.com wrote on 5/29/2006 4:10 PM:
    > One of my cleaner shrimp has developed some very dark black spots over
    > his back. I noticed them a few days ago and took this picture
    > (warning, it's a 1.4M file):
    >
    > http://www.papercanary.org/blake/fishy/cleaner_spots.jpg
    >
    > This comes only a few days after I started to notice that only two of
    > my three cleaners were visible at any given time. At first I thought
    > maybe the third had just molted and was hiding until it's exoskeleton
    > hardened (this happened when I got my first cleaner, he molted and went
    > into hiding and I thought he had died so I went and got a couple more,
    > three days later I discovered I had three cleaners after all). Now I'm
    > kind of worried that these black spots are some kind of infection and
    > that I'm going to loose the guy in the picture as well. Has anyone
    > ever seen anything like this before? He also seems to pick at himself
    > more than usual.
    >
    > Do cleaner shrimp typically clean each other?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Blake.
    >
     
    Wayne Sallee, May 29, 2006
    #3
  4. Ah, interesting. The shrimp in the picture has almost certainly molted
    in the recent past, as it has a fresh clutch of eggs in its swimming
    legs. Both shrimp have the black spots, though they are not as
    pronounced on the other one. Lack of iodine seems like it might be the
    culprit, but it's a bit of a stretch. I dose with Kent Iodine using
    one of those IV style drippers, and I use about four times the
    recommended amount (yet every time I test the tank tests low for iodine
    content). It was clogged up for a few days up until today...

    Blake.
     
    electroblake@gmail.com, May 30, 2006
    #4
  5. electroblake@gmail.com

    Pszemol Guest

    <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1148933445.256772.169270@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > One of my cleaner shrimp has developed some very dark black spots over
    > his back. I noticed them a few days ago and took this picture
    > (warning, it's a 1.4M file):
    >
    > http://www.papercanary.org/blake/fishy/cleaner_spots.jpg


    It could be Taura Syndrome Virus. Read here:
    http://www.ctsa.org/upload/publication/CTSA_121631672864863492464.pdf
    and here:
    http://www.ag.auburn.edu/fisheries/current_students/Shrimp disease.ppt
     
    Pszemol, May 31, 2006
    #5
  6. electroblake@gmail.com

    Boomer Guest

    Pszemol


    Great find !! Two-thumbs-up :)

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message news:e5i3e3.o0.1@poczta.onet.pl...
    : <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1148933445.256772.169270@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    : > One of my cleaner shrimp has developed some very dark black spots over
    : > his back. I noticed them a few days ago and took this picture
    : > (warning, it's a 1.4M file):
    : >
    : > http://www.papercanary.org/blake/fishy/cleaner_spots.jpg
    :
    : It could be Taura Syndrome Virus. Read here:
    : http://www.ctsa.org/upload/publication/CTSA_121631672864863492464.pdf
    : and here:
    : http://www.ag.auburn.edu/fisheries/current_students/Shrimp disease.ppt
     
    Boomer, May 31, 2006
    #6
  7. Yes, I agree, A+. However, I'm not sure what to do. Other than not
    buy anymore shrimp for a while. Sadness.

    Well, maybe I'll try reading the articles more thoroughly tomorrow.
    Tonight all I got was, "gee, all our shrimp died".

    I re-upped the iodine and essential elements doser this evening, as
    well as the buffer doser, maybe that will make a difference.

    The black spots seem to be worse now than a couple of days ago. Shrimp
    seem healthy otherwise. Everyone else is fine, even the coral banded
    shrimp and the sexy shrimp. Just the cleaners seem to be affected.

    Cheers,
    Blake.

    Boomer wrote:
    > Pszemol
    >
    >
    > Great find !! Two-thumbs-up :)
    >
    > --
    > Boomer
    >
    > If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
    >
    > Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    > Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS
    >
    > Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    > http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
    >
    > Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    > http://www.coralrealm.com
    >
    >
    >
    > "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message news:e5i3e3.o0.1@poczta.onet.pl...
    > : <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1148933445.256772.169270@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > : > One of my cleaner shrimp has developed some very dark black spots over
    > : > his back. I noticed them a few days ago and took this picture
    > : > (warning, it's a 1.4M file):
    > : >
    > : > http://www.papercanary.org/blake/fishy/cleaner_spots.jpg
    > :
    > : It could be Taura Syndrome Virus. Read here:
    > : http://www.ctsa.org/upload/publication/CTSA_121631672864863492464.pdf
    > : and here:
    > : http://www.ag.auburn.edu/fisheries/current_students/Shrimp disease.ppt
     
    electroblake@gmail.com, May 31, 2006
    #7
  8. electroblake@gmail.com

    Boomer Guest

    " re-upped the iodine and essential elements "

    This is not a good idea. You do not need to dose iodine, it is a myth. Most crustaceans
    get their iodine from food not the water column. Iodine in the water column, from dosing ,
    can cause shrimp to molt excessively, causing death.

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1149048401.849292.220320@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    : Yes, I agree, A+. However, I'm not sure what to do. Other than not
    : buy anymore shrimp for a while. Sadness.
    :
    : Well, maybe I'll try reading the articles more thoroughly tomorrow.
    : Tonight all I got was, "gee, all our shrimp died".
    :
    : I re-upped the iodine and essential elements doser this evening, as
    : well as the buffer doser, maybe that will make a difference.
    :
    : The black spots seem to be worse now than a couple of days ago. Shrimp
    : seem healthy otherwise. Everyone else is fine, even the coral banded
    : shrimp and the sexy shrimp. Just the cleaners seem to be affected.
    :
    : Cheers,
    : Blake.
    :
    : Boomer wrote:
    : > Pszemol
    : >
    : >
    : > Great find !! Two-thumbs-up :)
    : >
    : > --
    : > Boomer
    : >
    : > If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
    : >
    : > Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    : > Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS
    : >
    : > Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    : > http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
    : >
    : > Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    : > http://www.coralrealm.com
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : > "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message news:e5i3e3.o0.1@poczta.onet.pl...
    : > : <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    : > news:1148933445.256772.169270@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    : > : > One of my cleaner shrimp has developed some very dark black spots over
    : > : > his back. I noticed them a few days ago and took this picture
    : > : > (warning, it's a 1.4M file):
    : > : >
    : > : > http://www.papercanary.org/blake/fishy/cleaner_spots.jpg
    : > :
    : > : It could be Taura Syndrome Virus. Read here:
    : > : http://www.ctsa.org/upload/publication/CTSA_121631672864863492464.pdf
    : > : and here:
    : > : http://www.ag.auburn.edu/fisheries/current_students/Shrimp disease.ppt
    :
     
    Boomer, May 31, 2006
    #8
  9. electroblake@gmail.com

    Pszemol Guest

    <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1149048401.849292.220320@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > Yes, I agree, A+. However, I'm not sure what to do. Other than not
    > buy anymore shrimp for a while. Sadness.
    >
    > Well, maybe I'll try reading the articles more thoroughly tomorrow.
    > Tonight all I got was, "gee, all our shrimp died".


    Yes, from my reading it looks like there is no cure so far.
    I lost one of my cleaners to similar symptoms in begining of 2004
    but the other did not show the disease, which for me contradicts
    theory about viruses (infection would spread over all of them).

    Here is a thread on ReefCentral with my part of the story from 2004:
    http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298056
    Dr Shimek suggested it might be a form of fungus... who knows.
     
    Pszemol, May 31, 2006
    #9
  10. electroblake@gmail.com

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    I find it interesting that they named the disease "Black
    Spot Disease".

    Oh no I have Red Spot Disease ! :)

    I would say that the black spot is a sign of something
    going on, but not an exact diagnosis.


    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Pszemol wrote on 5/31/2006 12:57 AM:
    > <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1149048401.849292.220320@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >> Yes, I agree, A+. However, I'm not sure what to do. Other than not
    >> buy anymore shrimp for a while. Sadness.
    >>
    >> Well, maybe I'll try reading the articles more thoroughly tomorrow.
    >> Tonight all I got was, "gee, all our shrimp died".

    >
    > Yes, from my reading it looks like there is no cure so far.
    > I lost one of my cleaners to similar symptoms in begining of 2004
    > but the other did not show the disease, which for me contradicts
    > theory about viruses (infection would spread over all of them).
    >
    > Here is a thread on ReefCentral with my part of the story from 2004:
    > http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298056
    > Dr Shimek suggested it might be a form of fungus... who knows.
     
    Wayne Sallee, Jun 1, 2006
    #10
  11. electroblake@gmail.com

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    That powerpoint one has a lot of good pictures of
    different diseases, but I hate powerpoint.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Wayne Sallee wrote on 6/1/2006 10:27 AM:
    > I find it interesting that they named the disease "Black Spot Disease".
    >
    > Oh no I have Red Spot Disease ! :)
    >
    > I would say that the black spot is a sign of something going on, but not
    > an exact diagnosis.
    >
    >
    > Wayne Sallee
    > Wayne's Pets
    > Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    >
    >
    > Pszemol wrote on 5/31/2006 12:57 AM:
    >> <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:1149048401.849292.220320@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >>> Yes, I agree, A+. However, I'm not sure what to do. Other than not
    >>> buy anymore shrimp for a while. Sadness.
    >>>
    >>> Well, maybe I'll try reading the articles more thoroughly tomorrow.
    >>> Tonight all I got was, "gee, all our shrimp died".

    >>
    >> Yes, from my reading it looks like there is no cure so far.
    >> I lost one of my cleaners to similar symptoms in begining of 2004
    >> but the other did not show the disease, which for me contradicts
    >> theory about viruses (infection would spread over all of them).
    >>
    >> Here is a thread on ReefCentral with my part of the story from 2004:
    >> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298056
    >> Dr Shimek suggested it might be a form of fungus... who knows.
     
    Wayne Sallee, Jun 1, 2006
    #11
  12. Boomer wrote:
    > " re-upped the iodine and essential elements "
    >
    > This is not a good idea. You do not need to dose iodine, it is a myth. Most crustaceans
    > get their iodine from food not the water column. Iodine in the water column, from dosing ,
    > can cause shrimp to molt excessively, causing death.
    >
    > --
    > Boomer


    Interesting. My shrimp seem to molt about once every two moths or so.
    I only started dosing iodine about a year ago and thought my anemones
    started to look much healthier. Then again, anemones don't eat as much
    as shrimp do, so I assume they *do* absorb it out of the water column?


    My smaller cleaner has molted and the black spots are gone. The bigger
    one, who is pregnant with a clutch of florescent green eggs, is still
    covered in spots, but otherwise seems alright.

    Could be a virus, could be a fungus. I wonder if the cleaner that died
    was infected, and if when he died the virus/fungus consumed the corpse
    and had a little population explosion, which would explain why the
    other two have developed this symptom so soon after the first one
    passed away.

    Blake.
     
    electroblake@gmail.com, Jun 2, 2006
    #12
  13. electroblake@gmail.com

    Boomer Guest

    That it is not Ok to dose iodine is not the real issue, it is the means of being able to
    test for it and know where you are at. Many animals an plants in reef tank use iodine and
    some store large amounts of it.


    I figure the spots would go away as Wayne eluded to. Whether or not you had or have some
    type of infection we don't really know. Virus and fungal infections often are hard to
    treat, especially Viruses.

    As far as the other shrimp maybe yes maybe no. Molting in shrimp and other crustacean is a
    complex process that has a series of stages. The first stage is premolt (Pre-Ecdysis),
    this is when crustaceans often show signs of aggression especially towards food. This food
    demand is required to hold them over during the molt ( Ecdysis) and post molt
    (Post-Ecdysis) when they can not eat. Changes in water chemistry can disrupt these
    stages, especially the premolt stage. When the "shrimp" now goes into molt, when there is
    not a complete premolt, leads to the shrimp not being able to pull itself out of the old
    shell, which causes death. At other times it is not as bad and said shrimp may be missing
    some body parts, which if not to severe, can gain back during the next most. The bigger
    the crustacean the longer the stages are.

    There are a number of things that can cause death and death molts in crustaceans, most are
    things like deficiency in phosphotidylcholine, which can be controlled by soy lecithin
    addition to the food, which is a source. Then there is also ascorbic acid deficiency and
    Vitamin C deficiency . Not to mention many shell diseases brought about by bacteria. I
    have only touched on them with no mention of the environmental disorders that are also
    problems, especially in a captive environment..

    Some things to read on Iodine in the reef tank

    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2003/chem.htm

    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1149280055.071090.172950@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    :
    : Boomer wrote:
    : > " re-upped the iodine and essential elements "
    : >
    : > This is not a good idea. You do not need to dose iodine, it is a myth. Most
    crustaceans
    : > get their iodine from food not the water column. Iodine in the water column, from
    dosing ,
    : > can cause shrimp to molt excessively, causing death.
    : >
    : > --
    : > Boomer
    :
    : Interesting. My shrimp seem to molt about once every two moths or so.
    : I only started dosing iodine about a year ago and thought my anemones
    : started to look much healthier. Then again, anemones don't eat as much
    : as shrimp do, so I assume they *do* absorb it out of the water column?
    :
    :
    : My smaller cleaner has molted and the black spots are gone. The bigger
    : one, who is pregnant with a clutch of florescent green eggs, is still
    : covered in spots, but otherwise seems alright.
    :
    : Could be a virus, could be a fungus. I wonder if the cleaner that died
    : was infected, and if when he died the virus/fungus consumed the corpse
    : and had a little population explosion, which would explain why the
    : other two have developed this symptom so soon after the first one
    : passed away.
    :
    : Blake.
    :
     
    Boomer, Jun 2, 2006
    #13
  14. electroblake@gmail.com

    Roy Guest

    Re: Re: Black spots on my cleaner shrimp

    I agree, on not needing to dose iodine. I have one tank in particular
    that my shrimp (2 cleaners and 2 peppermint) molt like clock work at
    least once every month. Usually they have been oding it a day apart
    from each other going on 8 moths or better. Never have I added any
    supplements to my tanks except B-Ionic...All those other supplements
    do nothing but create a need to purchase yet another test kit, add
    more work, and buy more snakoil products. Water changes, and only
    calcium type supplements if yu have a reef tank is all thats
    needed.nothing else.....

    In my other tanks ,the shrimp thats in them molt every momnth or two
    but not like my main and most favorite tank for some reason or other,
    as I more or less care for them all just the same. I hav bought
    peppermit shrimp that had black marks on them already but it went away
    when the molted.
     
    Roy, Jun 2, 2006
    #14
  15. Boomer wrote:
    > That it is not Ok to dose iodine is not the real issue, it is the means of being able to
    > test for it and know where you are at. Many animals an plants in reef tank use iodine and
    > some store large amounts of it.


    I test for iodine every week or two. The amount in my water is always
    very low, despite the fact that I dose with iodine supplement. I have
    used the test with the bottle of "sanity fluid" supplied with the test
    kit and the test does the right thing. I've also tested water mixed
    with the iodine supplement and the tests shows high concentrations of
    iodine, so I'm pretty sure the results of my tank water tests are at
    least somewhat representative of the actual conditions of the tank
    water.

    > I figure the spots would go away as Wayne eluded to. Whether or not you had or have some
    > type of infection we don't really know. Virus and fungal infections often are hard to
    > treat, especially Viruses.


    They have on one "shrimp", and the other Lysmata seems alright
    otherwise. The spots are not growing larger or becoming more numerous.
    The theory one user posted was that a higher concentration of iodine
    would make matters better. You say that excessive iodine in the water
    column can induce premature molting, which is bad, but if the molt rids
    the shrimp of the infection, maybe that's not so bad?

    >
    > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm
    >
    > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2003/chem.htm
    >
    > Boomer
    >


    Thanks for the links. I will definitely do some reading up on the
    subject this weekend.

    Blake.
     
    electroblake@gmail.com, Jun 3, 2006
    #15
  16. electroblake@gmail.com

    Boomer Guest

    "The theory one user posted was that a higher concentration of iodine
    would make matters better. You say that excessive iodine in the water
    column can induce premature molting, which is bad, but if the molt rids
    the shrimp of the infection, maybe that's not so bad?"

    That is a old myth that iodine in the water column helps molting. Mike Noren ran some test
    on shrimp a few years back and found that higher than normal iodine levels cause excessive
    molting. Excessive molting is very stressful and often results in death. I raised shrimp
    and lobsters for 20 years and never added any iodine.


    From the first article

    Measurement of Iodine: Test Kits

    There are many ways to measure iodine in seawater. Even confining the list to those that
    most aquarists are likely to encounter, there are still at least three fundamentally
    different ways, and those three all detect different subsets of the total iodine species
    in water. Unfortunately, those differences make comparisons of the different methods
    almost impossible, and also complicate the interpretation of the data from any single one
    of them. Of the commercially available kits, the Seachem and Salifert iodine kits are the
    most popular in the US. Unfortunately, the use and interpretation of these kits is
    tedious and complicated. I'd like to hold off on detailed comments about how well they
    work until I've had additional time to study them, but so far my experience has been
    rather less successful that with simpler kits (alkalinity, calcium, etc.).

    I would strongly advise people to not try to maintain 0.06 ppm iodine using
    supplementation and a test kit.
    Why you ask? Isn't that what we do for most other chemicals of interest? Well, if we
    could easily and accurately determine the concentrations of the different forms of iodine
    in aquaria, then I would recommend doing just that. However, if you combine the
    complexities of having multiple iodine species present with the uncertainty of having
    hobbyists use very complex test kits that may readily yield incorrect or difficult to
    interpret results, the stage is set for people driving their total iodine to levels far
    from what they actually intended. I do not know what levels of iodide or iodate become
    apparently problematic to real aquaria, but the risk of overdosing in this fashion is not
    insignificant. Both of the ICP studies reported above found some tanks with substantially
    elevated total iodine levels. I have no way of knowing how those levels got there, but
    overdosing of a supplement is one likely way.




    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1149304050.818577.268850@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    :
    : Boomer wrote:
    : > That it is not Ok to dose iodine is not the real issue, it is the means of being able
    to
    : > test for it and know where you are at. Many animals an plants in reef tank use iodine
    and
    : > some store large amounts of it.
    :
    : I test for iodine every week or two. The amount in my water is always
    : very low, despite the fact that I dose with iodine supplement. I have
    : used the test with the bottle of "sanity fluid" supplied with the test
    : kit and the test does the right thing. I've also tested water mixed
    : with the iodine supplement and the tests shows high concentrations of
    : iodine, so I'm pretty sure the results of my tank water tests are at
    : least somewhat representative of the actual conditions of the tank
    : water.
    :
    : > I figure the spots would go away as Wayne eluded to. Whether or not you had or have
    some
    : > type of infection we don't really know. Virus and fungal infections often are hard to
    : > treat, especially Viruses.
    :
    : They have on one "shrimp", and the other Lysmata seems alright
    : otherwise. The spots are not growing larger or becoming more numerous.
    : The theory one user posted was that a higher concentration of iodine
    : would make matters better. You say that excessive iodine in the water
    : column can induce premature molting, which is bad, but if the molt rids
    : the shrimp of the infection, maybe that's not so bad?
    :
    : >
    : > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm
    : >
    : > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2003/chem.htm
    : >
    : > Boomer
    : >
    :
    : Thanks for the links. I will definitely do some reading up on the
    : subject this weekend.
    :
    : Blake.
    :
     
    Boomer, Jun 3, 2006
    #16
  17. > Some things to read on Iodine in the reef tank
    >
    > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm
    >
    > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2003/chem.htm



    Wow. Wish I'd read those a couple of years ago. I do admit, I'm not a
    particularly good scientist when it comes to my tanks. I make compound
    changes all the time. Like now: I'm about to stop dosing iodine at
    the same time that I'm already expecting my algae growth to diminish
    due to increased skimming. Will that decreased growth be due to the
    increased skimming or decreased iodine?!

    Anyhow, I will be paying special attention to my two BTAs, which are my
    favourites, and the ones I most thought I was doing a favour for by
    dosing with iodine.

    These articles were great. I am rather curious, though, on where it is
    all the iodine goes. Chemistry was my least favourite science, but it
    seems to me that it's too heavy to simply evaporate out of the water.
    I guess it could get incorporated into all the algae that grows in my
    tanks (mostly pest, some cultured), which I remove on a weekly basis.

    Thanks again, very informative. I hope they were not full of lies.

    Blake.
     
    electroblake@gmail.com, Jun 3, 2006
    #17
  18. electroblake@gmail.com

    Boomer Guest

    Ok, one final note on high iodine levels. If the excess iodine causes excessive molting,
    what happens ???.............They have no or little time to eat, what does that tell you
    :). Remember when going through a molt cycle the can not eat.


    "Will that decreased growth be due to the
    :increased skimming or decreased iodine?"

    More than likely it may be some of each.

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1149309716.243965.64330@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    :> Some things to read on Iodine in the reef tank
    : >
    : > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm
    : >
    : > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2003/chem.htm
    :
    :
    : Wow. Wish I'd read those a couple of years ago. I do admit, I'm not a
    : particularly good scientist when it comes to my tanks. I make compound
    : changes all the time. Like now: I'm about to stop dosing iodine at
    : the same time that I'm already expecting my algae growth to diminish
    : due to increased skimming. Will that decreased growth be due to the
    : increased skimming or decreased iodine?!
    :
    : Anyhow, I will be paying special attention to my two BTAs, which are my
    : favourites, and the ones I most thought I was doing a favour for by
    : dosing with iodine.
    :
    : These articles were great. I am rather curious, though, on where it is
    : all the iodine goes. Chemistry was my least favourite science, but it
    : seems to me that it's too heavy to simply evaporate out of the water.
    : I guess it could get incorporated into all the algae that grows in my
    : tanks (mostly pest, some cultured), which I remove on a weekly basis.
    :
    : Thanks again, very informative. I hope they were not full of lies.
    :
    : Blake.
    :
     
    Boomer, Jun 3, 2006
    #18
  19. electroblake@gmail.com

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    Well I was doing some more research on brine shrimp the
    other day, and noticed the description of black spot disease:
    http://www.aquaculture.ugent.be//coursmat/faoman/mcd/art/conoi.htm

    It says that it is caused by "the detachment of the
    epidermis from the cuticula". That's very similar to the
    bruising theory. And would explain why it happens to
    cleaner shrimp when molting.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Wayne Sallee wrote on 6/1/2006 10:27 AM:
    > I find it interesting that they named the disease "Black Spot Disease".
    >
    > Oh no I have Red Spot Disease ! :)
    >
    > I would say that the black spot is a sign of something going on, but not
    > an exact diagnosis.
    >
    >
    > Wayne Sallee
    > Wayne's Pets
    > Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    >
    >
    > Pszemol wrote on 5/31/2006 12:57 AM:
    >> <electroblake@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:1149048401.849292.220320@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >>> Yes, I agree, A+. However, I'm not sure what to do. Other than not
    >>> buy anymore shrimp for a while. Sadness.
    >>>
    >>> Well, maybe I'll try reading the articles more thoroughly tomorrow.
    >>> Tonight all I got was, "gee, all our shrimp died".

    >>
    >> Yes, from my reading it looks like there is no cure so far.
    >> I lost one of my cleaners to similar symptoms in begining of 2004
    >> but the other did not show the disease, which for me contradicts
    >> theory about viruses (infection would spread over all of them).
    >>
    >> Here is a thread on ReefCentral with my part of the story from 2004:
    >> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298056
    >> Dr Shimek suggested it might be a form of fungus... who knows.
     
    Wayne Sallee, Jun 19, 2006
    #19
  20. electroblake@gmail.com

    Pszemol Guest

    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message news:44971F34.3060200@WayneSallee.com...
    > Well I was doing some more research on brine shrimp the
    > other day, and noticed the description of black spot disease:
    > http://www.aquaculture.ugent.be//coursmat/faoman/mcd/art/conoi.htm
    >
    > It says that it is caused by "the detachment of the
    > epidermis from the cuticula". That's very similar to the
    > bruising theory. And would explain why it happens to
    > cleaner shrimp when molting.


    I wonder if this is the same thing...
     
    Pszemol, Jun 20, 2006
    #20
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