Closed loop set up

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by sagent3000, May 13, 2008.

  1. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    okay i am ready for the new tank. glass cages has a 180 thats 72 x 24 x 25 Tall for $550. i am not going to have them drill anything but drill it according to my picture. tell me what you guys think.


    [​IMG]

    1. the red dots are going to the sump and will be 1" the blue is the return from the sump and they are both 1" and will be pointed downward at about 60 degrees

    2. the light blue dots are going to two mag 12 that will alternated every 10 minutes and will have a 1" drain out with 1" returns that come back to the brown dots that will have two arms that sprout off

    3. the pink dot will be attached to a mag 12 that will always be on and be come out through the green bar at the top with the lines pointing down
     
    sagent3000, May 13, 2008
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  2. sagent3000

    stagofdoom Phi Kappa Psi

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    I would look around for tanks because I was planning on getting a glasscages but ive heard iffy stories about them. Thats just my 2 cents though.

    Also for overflows check out http://glass-holes.com/main.sc because thats where im going to get my overflow when I get my new tank.
     
    stagofdoom, May 13, 2008
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  3. sagent3000

    Hornet

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    Interesting set-up. I'm curious what the great minds will have to say.

    I assume your pumps are going to be located directly below the tank in the sump based on your pump choices. Have you considered going with a ext pump and maybe a larger feed for it like 1.5' .

    Me and all my newbness is it ok to switch the pumps on and off every 10min?
     
    Hornet, May 13, 2008
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  4. sagent3000

    daugherty part time reefer

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    i would use bigger drain holes at least 1.5in or even 2in this will allow you to put a big main pump on the system that will be able to feed both returns and give you great flow with out the worry of overflowing the tank. as for turning off the pumps every ten min i dont think that is good to do with most pumps but i am not shure.
     
    daugherty, May 13, 2008
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  5. sagent3000

    RyanG ^*Eternal Dumbass*^

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    I would definately up the overflows to 1.5". if you went with a 2" or two 1" bulkheads you could eliminate the pink dot completely. I would take them through the backwall instead of the bottom IMO. The spraybar im kinda iffy on. If I were going to run it(which I might be in my 180) I would run the feed for it throught the side of my overflow and have it spray up the backside of my live rock. I would base most of my returns throught the overflows actually. Check out loc-line nozzles for increased pressure as well. Definately go with a GOOD EXTERNAL pump. They last longer and have way less heat transfer.

    Wait for Jhnrb or Fatman to chime in before finalizing anything. Maybe even shoot either or both of them a PM. They are the masters of this.

    Both have helped me out quite a bit in planning a similar tank. PM me your email addy and Ill send you a diagram of what Im going to be running. This tank was set up for 5 years before I purchased it. It was a successful SPS tank and thats what I have planned.
     
    RyanG, May 13, 2008
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  6. sagent3000

    RyanG ^*Eternal Dumbass*^

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    i cant believe nobody else is offering anything. Guys this is what we are here for. Help seargent out! builders dream!

    TO THE TOP!

    EDIT: sorry if that came across wrong. Im excited to help seargent plan his tank and I figured some of the tech leaning guys would be all over this!
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2008
    RyanG, May 14, 2008
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  7. sagent3000

    Oscarsdad608

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    If you are planning on having the holes on the bottom they need to be drilled before the tank is tempered. I would also consider running a larger external pump through the back wall. If you have the money check out ocean motions. I have heard they make great products.
     
    Oscarsdad608, May 14, 2008
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  8. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    all the holes are going to be on the back glass
     
    sagent3000, May 15, 2008
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  9. sagent3000

    fatman

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    1) Using one inch 90 degree fittings and turning them down ward will mean you will not be skimming the nutrient rich top layer of the water, plus only skimming an average of 700 gph combined. The 1" size is pretty overflow is pretty minimal even with both in use. 1 1/2" bulkheads for the overflows would actually allow more than twice the maximum flow which means running them at half capacity would make them very quite and would give that redundancy that is always nice with overflow. It is amazing how they manage to find ways to get clogged. I would recommend overflow boxes even if they are just home made glass boxes , therefore without slots. They are simple and cheap to build and will skim all water from the very top of the tank.
    2) I would recommend larger pumps and feed bulkheads for your closed loops. A tank as large as yours could easily handle Sequence Snappers running 2500 gph instead of the Magdrives. The wattage used would be virtually the same with twice the water being pumped. The intakes would need to be 2" and the returns could be four one inch bulkheads reduced to two 3/4" nozzles or T'd to feed four 1/2 inch nozzles per pump. Or at least put in larger feed bulkheads in anticipation of larger pumps. Mag Drive pumps are pretty poor pumps, whether used inside or outside a sump. I would consider PanWorld, which are as good as Iwaki's (which are considered top of the line). Or if you upgrade the flow I would recommend Sequence Snappers.
    3) Once again I do not recommend Magdrive pumps. I would use a PanWorld 50PX-X rated at 1110 gph with power consumption of 90 watts. They are cheap, quiet and run cool. They were designed by the same engineer who designed the Iwaki pumps. I always recommended oversized bulkheads to allow for less friction and ease in upgrades. Installed with threaded portion on the inside on returns allows for the installation of Loc-line swivel nozzles on 3/4inch male threaded adapters that can be used with 1 inch to 3/4 inch bushing reducers screwed into the bulkheads. Or if you like lots of small nozzles, run two 1" bulkheads reduced down with bushings to 3/4" and use Loc-line 3/4" Y's that have two 1/2" nozzles on each Y. All swivel for adjustability.

    Lots of flexibility, lots of flow or potential to upgrade to lots of flow. Check out the glass-holes site for pictures of slotted inlet boxes they make for me for closed loop inlets. http://www.glass-holes.com look under custom work Dave's end of semester extravaganza.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
    fatman, May 16, 2008
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  10. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    Here is a new try

    okay here is a new idea.

    the red comes out the tank and goes to the sump and is 1.5" and the blue is a return from the sump 1.5" each.

    the pink is 1.5" and goes to a ReefFlo Barracuda pump that pumps out 4300gph and will be attached to an oceans motion 4 way oscillating device

    the green will all be 1.5" return from the barracuda

    [​IMG]
     
    sagent3000, May 19, 2008
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  11. sagent3000

    fatman

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    So with that Barracuda running through the oceans motions device how many return lines will be putting out water for the pump at one time. The velocity will be extreme unless your pumping through at least enough nozzles to reduce the velocity as that pump will deliver a velocity around 70 ft/sec out of a 1.5 inch diameter pipe. That is at least double what you would want for a velocity. Four 1" pipes running at one time would probably be about right with that pump. I would have to calculate it to know for sure, though. I get about right at 880 gallons per hour at about 32 ft/sec out of each of four 3/4" pipes with a Dart pump. I run over sized return pipes from the pump to the bulk heads and reduce down to the proper size at the nozzles so as to not lose much flow or velocity. I would get the some flow with out the reduction at the nozzles but a lower velocity (down in the low 20's).
     
    fatman, May 19, 2008
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  12. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    the oceans motion has 4 outlets that are all going to be 1.5" outlets
     
    sagent3000, May 19, 2008
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  13. sagent3000

    NewbReefer

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    KISS, keep it simple stupid. :p dont take that wrong. I love awesome ideas like this and i often think the same way and would love to see it as you get it all together, so pics pics pics :^: but im gonna mention that keeping it simple is gonna prevent POSSIBLE heartache later on. I can see you understand just how important flow and circulation is between a sump. so if it were me on this setup i would have 2x 2" plumbing overflows for maximum circulation possible between the DT and the sump and have simple adjustable nozzles on the returns coming into the DT and for flow inside the tank i would get a Vortech system *newbreefer druels* if i were starting a new and larger tank i would fork out the cash for one of these systems and I still may in the future but not sure it's necesarry in my 72, those things are insane, Check out the vid. they make a wave like action that nothing else can generate. they take less power and will save you money in the long run versus if your running that many pumps out of your sump. And there such a small profile that they dont stick out in your tank,.you have no cords submerged in the water and the actual motor is located on the outside of the tank so no heat heat transfer. they completely controlable so one pump can put out 100-3,000gph so they can be used in 20-500 gallon tanks. You can also get a battery backup so that if the power goes out it will power the vortechs for 30 or more hours. here they are for sale at marinedepot.com
     
    NewbReefer, May 19, 2008
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  14. sagent3000

    fatman

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    Vortechs are just grossly over priced magnetic drive versions of Koralias. They are also till large enough to be considered still obtrusive and gaudy like a Koralia or other power heads. They have a few advantages over Koralias such as: very little heat transferred to water, no chance of stray voltage and it comes with electronic controller/reastat (which really is no better than a Wave maker). They are a very much over price newest fad. Lets see 8 Koralia #3's or 1 Vortech. Or a complete cloased loop circualtion system with great volume and velocities. I will stick with closed loop systems rather than gimmicks such as the over priced Vortech. As far as two 2" bulkhead overflows. That wiil easily provide over 3500 to 4000 gph. Why would anyone want to move that much (or even half, if one bulkhead is blocked) water through a small sump. I have two 2" bulk heads for a horizontal over flow but that is in case I want to run 3400 gallons per hour through an attached frag tank and then to a large sump for return to the display tank. The sump would have nothing in it but two skimmers and bubble baffles, and heaters. It would be way to turbulent for any other use such as a refugium, growing macro algae or a deep sand bed. Using a 40 gallon breeder tank holding 30 gallons as a sump would mean exchanging all the water in the sump almost twice per minute.
     
    fatman, May 20, 2008
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  15. sagent3000

    sagent3000

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    i don't want powerheads in my tank at all. i am also thinking about using the pond foam for a rock wall as well as some DIY live rock
     
    sagent3000, May 20, 2008
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  16. sagent3000

    Hornet

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    :shock: Man that thing is expensive. For the price of that thing you could buy a reeflo dart, plumb the thing and have plenty left for beer.

    Sagent I like your route. Once I pick up my tank I will be going the route of no powerdeads in the tank too
     
    Hornet, May 20, 2008
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  17. sagent3000

    RyanG ^*Eternal Dumbass*^

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    Expensive and Ugly is a bad combination.
     
    RyanG, May 20, 2008
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  18. sagent3000

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Especially in a girlfriend ;)
     
    Bifferwine, May 20, 2008
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  19. sagent3000

    Hornet

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    :trampolin ROFL !!
     
    Hornet, May 20, 2008
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  20. sagent3000

    RyanG ^*Eternal Dumbass*^

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    Even worse in an escort!
     
    RyanG, May 21, 2008
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