Clown ich after 4 days! I need your opinion!

razec

Reefing newb
I had a brand new tank cycled using the shrimp method for 3 weeks without any livestock.
Before I went to LFS to buy fish my tank was fully cycled and the readings were:
Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
Salinity 1.027

I bought 2 clowns 3 days ago. Today I noticed that both of them have ich (white spots).

My question to you is:

Were this fish already infected, or they got the ich in my tank?

Thank you in advance
 
probably already infected and the stress of the move weakened their immune system and now they are showing the signs. take the fish out of that tank and put them in a QT tank, start adding a garlic supplement to their food and let the main tank sit fishless for 4-6 weeks (i would go 8 weeks to be safe). if you keep the fish in this tank and just treat them in there, the ich cycle will just keep repeating itself and you will never get rid of it.
 
Any fish can get ich, some get it for apparently no reason. Sometimes even the slightest bit of stress (such as moving from the store to your home) can cause an ich outbreak. Clowns are very hardy fish and usually can recover from ich on their own.

I agree with what ReefKeeper said, you will need to quarantine your fish in another tank if you want to treat them. Do not treat your main tank with any sort of copper based medication, or you will contaminate your sand and rock and will never be able to keep any kind of inverts or corals in that tank.

Your other option is to just leave the fish alone and try to let them fight off the infection on their own. Feed them frozen food (no flakes or pellets, those will lead to algae problems), soak their food in a garlic extract before feeding, and as long as they are eating, the chance of them recovering is good. You will always have ich in your tank, it's just a matter of minimizing stress to prevent future outbreaks. You won't be able to prevent ich 100% of the time, no matter what you do.
 
1.027! thats pretty high salinty; that may be the problem there becuase most people keep it around 1.023 - 1.025.
and to treat him get a five gallon or bigger styrofoam box and keep temp at 79-81,salintity at 1.019,some dead rock, and feed formula 1 marine pellets,copper.for about 7 weeks and your fish will be 100% better
 
1.027! thats pretty high salinty; that may be the problem there becuase most people keep it around 1.023 - 1.025.
and to treat him get a five gallon or bigger styrofoam box and keep temp at 79-81,salintity at 1.019,some dead rock, and feed formula 1 marine pellets,copper.for about 7 weeks and your fish will be 100% better

1.027 is not that high !! i keep my tank at 1.026.

do NOT use a styrofoam box !! the heater will likely melt the box !! just go out and get a cheap 10 gallon tank, NO live or dead rock (it will soak up the copper and become useless), salinity should be 1.024 - 1.026, feed them normally, but add garlic extract to the food. if you want to treat with copper, be sure you know what you are doing because you can overdose the tank and kill the fish.

i recommend doing a search on hyposalinity on marine depot, in Kelly Jedlicki's disease health and wellness forum ... Disease, Health and Wellness - by Kelly Jedlicki
 
I agree, 1.027 is not going to cause ich.

I also agree not to use any rock in a quarantine tank. You can throw in some PVC for the fish to hide in, but any rock you put in will be contaminated.
 
I agree with Biff and Reefkeeper.Put them in QT(or not) and just feed frozen foods soaked in garlic and a vitamin supplement.They usually recover after they build up there immune system from the stress of a new system.
 
1.027! thats pretty high salinty; that may be the problem there becuase most people keep it around 1.023 - 1.025.
and to treat him get a five gallon or bigger styrofoam box and keep temp at 79-81,salintity at 1.019,some dead rock, and feed formula 1 marine pellets,copper.for about 7 weeks and your fish will be 100% better

I agree with Keeper.1.027 is not high at all.Thats where I keep my S.G.
 
HERFERT


Now then, since that is out of the way....

Since you only have 2 fish, and they both have Ich, there is no risk of it spreading to anyone else. I would not waste the energy on treating them outside the tank with copper. If there were other prized fish that you might lose, I would reconsider.

At this point, if they are eating, just leave them alone. I have had better luck with leaving the fish alone (if they are eating) and allowing them to get over the infection on their own. my trigger just got over a really nasty case without a drop of copper or meds. She just ate like a hog for 10 days and it was gone. The more they are stressed, the more likely they will die. Treating copper meds can cause stress as does fishing them out. Once they stop eating, they are as good as dead.

Good luck and get used to it. Ich is a problem for everyone but Dominick. Some how, he has been able to avoid Ich forever in his tank. Of course, he has had his struggles with other things...:mrgreen:

-Doc
 
Why you wanna bring back that nightmare.Yes,so far,nothing has gotten Ich in my system including my beautiful Powder Brown which btw looks better than a sohal.
 
The life cycle of ich goes something like this:

There are 4 stages to the life cycle.

The parasitic stage where you actually see the white spots on the fish is the Trophonts and lasts between 3--7 days.

After this, they are considered mature. At this stage, they drop off the fish and are free-swimming in the water column. Usually not more than 12--24hrs.

After the free-swimming stage, they settle to the bottom, in the sand bed or on rocks. At this stage they are reproducing inside the cyst. At this stage they are called Tomonts. This stage lasts between 3--28 days. Extremely variable on the time frame and it can only be attributed to tank conditions and particular strain of the parasite.

After the reproductive stage, the cysts burst open and release the new generation. These are called Theronts. They are free-swimming in the water between 24--48hrs. There is some argument that they can be free-swimming up to 72hrs at this stage, but it is very rare. This is the time when they seek a new host fish. If they do not find a host fish to infect, they are most certainly dead after 72hrs.

Okay, now we have a background on the parasite. How do you treat it?
The methods are debatable. As has been suggested already, it can range from isolation in a QT tank and treatment with copper, to hyposalinity, to simply letting the fish fight it on their own.

It's been suggested that certain species of fish can develope an immunity to reinfection after 2 or 3 infections. I wouldn't want my fish to go through 2 or 3 infections just so they might possibly develope their own immunity to the parasite. It's quite possible they wouldn't survive long enough to actually develope an immunity. How would you like to get the flu 3 times in a month just so that you could be immune to it for the rest of a season? :shock:

Hyposalinty really doesn't work. Research has been done where fish were dipped in freshwater for up to 18hrs and the Trophonts dropped off as normal and went onto the mature stage and successive Theront stage to reinfect another host. Obviously, the host fish died after 18hrs in fresh water, but the experiment shows that hyposalinity doesn't work. It doesn't work because the Trophonts are burrowed so deep into the fish's tissue, that the lower salinty has no effect. The theory is a good one. The lower salinity of freshwater will cause the cysts to explode, just as a copepod or saltwater nudibranch will do in lowered salinty or 100% freshwater. In reality, it doesn't work to treat ich and simply stresses an already sick and stressed fish.

Copper based medications can work, but again, they create stress in the fish. Itr can be used to treat the ich parasite, but must be used with extreme caution to avoid killing the fish. You should ALWAYS monitor copper saturation levels with a reliable test kit. Keep in mind that this is a SHORT TERM medication and you must not expose the fish to this for more than 48hrs at one time. The proper way to use copper medication for ich treatment is first to QT the fish. Now dose the copper medication into the water. Using a test kit, be sure you have the copper introduced at appropriate levels. After 48hrs. 50% of the water must be changed in the QT tank. And again in 24hrs after that--again 50% of the water must be changed to drop the copper levels in the water. The fish should be treated again 24-48hrs AFTER the second water change. Bring copper levels up to appropriate levels and allow the medication to work for 48hrs. The water must then be changed. 50% and again another 50% 24hrs later. At this point, water changes must be made every 24-48hrs to bring copper levels down to where they are undetecable. Leaving a fish exposed to high levels of copper for more than 48hrs can be lethal.

The fish should now be cured. But it is NOT ready to be introduced back into the tank.

The infected tank must be left without a single fish for as little as 6 weeks and as much as 8--10 weeks to ensure that all remaining parasites in the tank have died.

It has been suggested that a single strain of ich parasite should be dead after 11 months. That equates to about 34 life cycles. If you choose NOT to treat your fish in a QT tank and simply let them fight off the infection on their own--that particular strain of ich will be dead in 11 months. There is cell degradation with each successive life cycle. After 34 life cycles, there is so much cell degradation that the strain simply cannot continue to reproduce. So, if you HAVE ich, and you can keep it from killing your fish--it should go away in 11 months if you decide to just leave the fish in the tank and do nothing. NOT an option I'd ever consider.

If you can completely cure your fish in QT, and then wait the required 6--10 weeks before reintroduction into the tank, the ich cycle should be broken. You now have an ich free tank. That is, until you introduce another fish with ich. :shock:
 
I fell asleep 6 times trying to read it. I am sure it was wonderful. But, you need a hobby or something.

-Doc
 
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