Dead or Alive

Discussion in 'Invertebrates' started by Nick, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Nick

    Nick

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    It is 4 bulbs; 2 blue and 2 white.

    I've had it approximately 8-10 weeks.

    Really, everything I add to the tank does well... except nems... and I wish I could figure out why.

    I'm lost.
     
    Nick, Sep 28, 2013
    #21
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  2. Nick

    mariobrothersleeve squirrel

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    Bacteria, try running a uv light for 3 weeks and watch the nem settle right in
     
    mariobrothersleeve, Sep 29, 2013
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  3. Nick

    Nick

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    I've been running a UV light well before I added the Nem.
    Is there a way to test for bacteria?
     
    Nick, Sep 29, 2013
    #23
  4. Nick

    Aquarian

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    How old are the bulbs in your light?
     
    Aquarian, Sep 29, 2013
    #24
  5. Nick

    marcah

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    nems are tough to adapt even in a established aquarium.. What are alkalinity and calcium even though calcium is not a factor for nems a proper balance of alkalinity and calcium are.. that is why people say wait a year or so before placing them into a tank to make sure tank is established and stable..
     
    marcah, Sep 29, 2013
    #25
  6. Nick

    mariobrothersleeve squirrel

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    is your watts/gallon and flow correct? I believe this is why the uv light gets a bad name. I know I go against everyone, but I added a nem 2 months after my tank was up without a hitch. but to go against me, I run straight tap water and haven't had an issue for a year....... honestly, I think it is the nem you get. they all have their own personal issues and some are great. im not saying go and spend 100 bucks on a nem, but the money does show the quality and stability of the nem.
    A lot here don't feed, so I took it for a try and holy shit! perfect. the less you feed the happier they are.
    I also did not know nems take up cal? they seem to be pretty soft and don't understand why cal is important, but giver a try. Low trates, phates, bacteria, high lighting, and waterflow are what is needed to keep a nem. once set and to offset the balance, try feeding for a month and then apply a powerhead to it. man they split quick and along comes income to support the hobby. When I drop off my extra nems, they cant keep them on the shelves and are calling me within a couple days for more. what I am trying to say is there are only so many in the hobby, so I imagine the same people purchase the nems without luck, to new to the hobby? I don't know. they say a year so that you are consistant with up keep for a reef. Why would you want to purchase, now thousands of dollars worth of coral, to put a nem in and for it to walk over expensive colonies? youll figure it out my friend.
     
    mariobrothersleeve, Sep 30, 2013
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  7. Nick

    Nick

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    Well... one of the things I'm starting to see is that Nems and Coral enjoy different conditions So I am asking myself: why did I put a Nem in a tank where I have Coral? The answer: lack of experience.

    The tank is up and running for 3 or maybe 4 years this January (I've lost track). I have to say that the tank is established. My water chemistry tests as good and in some cases, better that the water out of the bag that I transported the Nem home in.

    One problem I am encountering is the consistency of information. For example, I used to keep my tank at 74 degrees. I was told by some that the temp was too cold, so I jacked it up where it sits between 79-80 degrees. As the Nem doesn't improve, I continue to inquire from different sources. I was recently told that the temp was too high and that Nems like it cooler. So you ask; whom do I listen to? All of these different opinions and all of the different parameters but ALL are having success with Nems.

    I run T5 lighting; 4 10K lamps, 2 white and 2 blue. For a total of 96 watts. In a 20 gallon display, it works out to be 4.8 watts per gallon. Yesterday, the LFS where I purchased the Nem said that was too much light for a Nem, but fine for the corals. I thought this might be a possibility as I noticed the Nem seems to inflate somewhat when the light is off and shrink when the light is on. So the question became; how do I reduce the lighting for the Nem without hurting the corals?

    I cut a piece of plexiglass to fit over the tank and then blocked the side where the Nem is so that it is in the shadows. I started this yesterday and will give it a week. I figure it this way: if it needs more light, it will move toward the light, if it needs less, it will move away from the light.

    Thoughts?
     
    Nick, Sep 30, 2013
    #27
  8. Nick

    salt_for_brains Alabama Reefer VIP Member

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    A HEALTHY anemone is one of the most light demanding creatures we put in our tanks so the LFS that told you they don't need as much as coral is wrong.

    Your anemone is bleached so it is going to shy away from intense lighting until it gets some zooxanthella back. It is a long road to nurse a bleached anemone back to healthy (months). It takes time, small feedings, stable parameters, light and patience.

    79-80 degrees is fine for an anemone but get the temp in a place and leave it there as adjustments only further stress your anemone.

    Anemones and corals coexist in the ocean as well as our tanks. The conditions they need are very similar especially with SPS.

    I personally wouldn't shade it. If I did anything I would cut the light cycle back a little. Otherwise I would let the nem find a spot where it could hide and extend to the light when needed.
     
    salt_for_brains, Sep 30, 2013
    #28
  9. Nick

    mariobrothersleeve squirrel

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    +1 sfb.
    here is a picture of the exact rbta as my other ones except it stays long tenticle. the one on the left is out of a mans sump that had no light in it for 2 months. it is in my tank, but the only thing different than what sfb said, not stepping on toes, is it was hungry for the light. it is setting in the middle of the dt with 180w leds at 70%. when it arrived, its base was very clear. the lucky thing I have had is that it never moved from where I put it. the only nem that moved for me, besides when splitting, is a gbta. that guy is long gone and I tried him in a 14g biocube. if you had any lps or zoas, I would think they would have died off from amount of light way before a nem.
    I would say the nem now is at 70% health in this picture, but far from where he was after 2 months. where ever your nem ends up, leave him alone. don't move him or poke at him. I have one on the back side of the rocks in my dt, but oh well. it is what it is. you cant spell is without si!(duck dynasty)
     

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    mariobrothersleeve, Sep 30, 2013
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  10. Nick

    Nick

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    At 4.8watts per gallon, is my lighting:

    A) Insufficient for the Nem?
    B) Sufficient for the Nem?
    C) Too much for the Nem?

    @ Salt: I know you wouldn't shade but I've seen some behavior which suggests it is getting too much and other behavior that it wasn't getting enough. Initially, The Nem was positioned in an area of rock which had an out cove and was out of direct light. After several weeks it moved into an area where there is direct light. This leads me to believe that more light was required.

    On the flip side, the Nem seems to inflate when the light (which is on an 8 hour timer) is off, leading me to think the Nem requires less light.

    I watched this Nem in the tank at the store for 2 weeks before I purchased it. The lighting in that tank was significantly lower than what I have in mine... the lighting seemed "softer".
     
    Nick, Sep 30, 2013
    #30
  11. Nick

    FishyReef Broke Reefer!

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    Sounds like your LFS is pointing you in the wrong direction. It is true that there are cool water anemones that need cooler temps and less light - but the BTA is not one of them. Here's an article from WWM on BTAs that might be helpful: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/bubbletipanemones.htm I'd also strongly suggest reading through all of the FAQ links at the top of the page - these link to various questions that have been submitted to WWM from people who are looking for help with BTAs. I suspect you will find many answers to your questions here, including the ones about temperature and lighting (from my own reading of the content in these links, both topics are addressed, along with many more). I suspect you are being sold unhealthy nems to begin with and that is why they are not thriving in your tank, on top of it being too cold.
     
    FishyReef, Sep 30, 2013
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  12. Nick

    salt_for_brains Alabama Reefer VIP Member

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    Your lighting is sufficient.

    The behavior your are seeing is indicative of a bleached anemone. Light acclimation to your system is very important when introducing an anemone. As you described it was doing well under the LFS lower lighting but how do you know it was doing well? Just b/c it was more expanded there doesn't mean it was doing well. It could of already been stressing from not enough light. I can't say the specimen was healthy or unhealthy when you purchased it. All I have to work with is a picture of it now and your description of it's behavior.

    I really hope it turns around for you and that you find some useful info in some of the responses. Just remember stability goes a long way with anemones and patience is huge when trying to bring back a bleached anemone.
     
    salt_for_brains, Oct 1, 2013
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  13. Nick

    Nick

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    Well... I do want to take the time to say Thank You for all the input I've received here. At this point, I'm just going to leave it be and keep the entire environment stable and wait to see what happens.

    Thank you again for all the help!
     
    Nick, Oct 1, 2013
    #33
  14. Nick

    pkc

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    Mate if the reason it bleached isn’t to serious like temp, unstable nitrogen cycle, flow or the usual reasons being lighting or nutrients, then feed it, an anemone doesn’t need its symbiotic algae to survive.
    Direct feed some planktonic life for a while and see what happens, if you do not feed it now that the algae is expelled, it will starve to death quite quickly!
    Get a non needle syringe and put on a length of clear pvc tube like we do on it and inject the food into it a little at a time.
    Some times anems react quite badly to leds for a while and we need to protect them until they get use to that lighting, if that is what is going on.
    If it is weak lighting, then you really need to feed it and soon.
    Nothing can get better or live trough hard times with out vitamin and mineral intake!
     
    pkc, Oct 2, 2013
    #34
  15. Nick

    Nick

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    I've tried targeted feeding without any luck. I have been adding Microvert to the water which I was told is a good way to feed them.
     
    Nick, Oct 2, 2013
    #35
  16. Nick

    daugherty part time reefer

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    your temp is fine at 75. the thing with temp is keep it stable. my tanks runs at 80 because of the lights. nothing I can do about that. nems don't need any food they use the light to live and make their one food with the symbiotic alage that live in them. if u do feed a nem use Mysis shrimp or silver sides they are not filter feeders. and that is what microvert is made for. even if your lights are not good enough with I don't think they are from what u have said. trying to feed it will not help IMO. it may have been doomed before u got it from the pet store.
     
    daugherty, Oct 3, 2013
    #36
  17. Nick

    Nick

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    Well... the Nem has moved to the bottom of the tank and in to an out cove of rock. I also noticed about a dozen of these tiny "bugs" (actually, they look like microscopic shrimp. Are they pods?), crawling around it. This can't be good and I'm thinking about pulling it.

    Thoughts?
     
    Nick, Oct 3, 2013
    #37
  18. Nick

    mariobrothersleeve squirrel

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    look up Mysis shrimp for reference. they would not affect the nem, more food if its interested
     
    mariobrothersleeve, Oct 3, 2013
    #38
  19. Nick

    mariobrothersleeve squirrel

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    if its not sticky, honestly id pull the nem to not pollute the tank. im not saying "nuke" just it is breaking down. if so, make sure you turn off all powerheads and pumps when removing(worse case) im sure is spilled all the zoos already if its bleached,.
     
    mariobrothersleeve, Oct 3, 2013
    #39
  20. Nick

    daugherty part time reefer

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    they are more then likely pods. if it was my tank I would pull it out.
     
    daugherty, Oct 3, 2013
    #40
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