Enjoy em while you can

Every coral in my tank,with the exception of the few ORA corals I have,were grown and fragged in my LFS.Even though I know the hobby isnt killing the reefs,I also think that there is no need to harvest wild corals for the hobby.
Look at all those designer corals out there,that we all go wild over.You dont get those colors from wild colonies.So why take em from their natural enviroment?
 
The way I see it some of those corals down there are like granddaddy oaks. You will never again see one in your life once you cut it down. Others are well kinda like mowing grass. They will be back faster and more than ever. Only buying cultured corals will prevent there from being a market for the rare ones going extinct
 
I just think that our hobby does more to advance the understanding of these animals than anything else. I would hate to see the trade in corals outlawed. There are plenty of people who would like to outlaw the entire pet industry (save dogs and cats) and would be happy to deny us the pleasure, and the world the benefits, of our hobby.
 
The trade in corals won't be outlawed. There's no precedence for that. Propagation of corals in homes is what prevents them from being taken from the wild. If they are listed as endangered, people will be prohibited from harvesting them from the wild.
 
There is an impact from the hobby, in select small areas. Practices are getting better, but still, damage has been done. Decorative coral skeletons was banned, what almost 20 years ago, but we're still recovering from that, though that was only partially for Aquaria decorum. My wife and I found a box from one of our parents house that had 'beautiful' large coral specimens that were probably used for bookends! I cringe every time I visit Florida and see one of those 'Shell World's' or Shell Man'! Mariculture and aquaculture is taking on, and that's taking some of the strain off. These are dated articles, and much has improved, but still, in 2001, 800,000 kg of Fiji Rock was taken. That's a lot of rock, and that's just Fiji!
Sustainable Live Coral Trade, Fiji Islands Business, 02/01/06 | Coral Reef Alliance
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/habitat/ead/ReadingRoom/tradecoralreefspecies.pdf

But there is good news!! There are lots of places and Research Organizations like this. I know I'm preaching to the choir, you know of these and countless more I'm sure

Live Rock
What We Do | Coral Reef Alliance
Marine Aquarium Council

I love this hobby and all you enthusiasts as well (well, I like you at least :D), but if you've ever gone snorkeling, there is nothing, I mean nothing more beautiful than a flourishing coral reef. Hopefully the right organizations and the right conservation efforts will be employed. Something that will make everyone happy.

Sorry for babbling! Cheers! :Cheers:
 
I don't think the hobby will be outlawed, but I there are plenty of people who would like it to be.

I've never met any of them, and I have degrees in conservation biology and work in the conservation field. I've worked on documents and surveys of endangered species. This hobby is not even on the radar for any of the conservationists I've had to work with or deal with.
 
These guys are local to me. About 20 miles away. I will probably make a trip to the facility next month to purchase a few frags.

If anybody wants anything, let me know and I'll snatch it up for ya. I only ask for reimbursement of coral and shipping costs.

No, this is not my website (I wish!!) and I have no idea who these people are. Found them on ebay and then realized how close to me they are. Talked to them on the phone. Very nice people and no problem with local pick up.

Colorado Coral Addiction
 
I'm actually a member of PETA and have been for 14 years now. This has never been an issue that they have ever focused on. I have not ever heard, not even once, one thing about the coral trade from PETA.
 
I'm actually a member of PETA and have been for 14 years now. This has never been an issue that they have ever focused on. I have not ever heard, not even once, one thing about the coral trade from PETA.
Considering that they got bent out of shape over the swatting of a fly, do us the favor of not asking them how they feel about the coral trade hobby. I have to assume it's a matter of us simply not being on their radar.
 
I want to ban people who want to ban.

There's people trying to get the sport of drag racing banned. Apparently, we use too much fuel. ..... :grumble: The car I helped build and sometimes get to drive burns about 2 gallons of 104 octane "track fuel" for each 1/4 mile run down the strip. That includes starting it in the pits and idling down to the ramp. Waiting in line and then doing the whole burnout thing to heat the tires. Then hammer down for about 11 seconds and idle it back to the pits. 2 gallons.

But environmental greenies want to ban drag racing since our fuel mileage is so ridiculous. Apparently, they haven't yet made the connection that we only make about 50 passes in a year. :shock: They're just mad because our toys are loud and they see us having a good time. Pure jealousy. :mrgreen:

And then you have the noise banners. Y'all know about my addiction to toy airplanes. Developers sold a couple hundred acres to a real estate developer. They dropped in less than 1/2 mile from the property line on the east end of our club. Started building $1 million dollar houses on 1/2 acre plots. Told them the airplane runway and club field was located 3/4 mile straight west. Nobody gave it a second glance.

Now 1yr into it - we're all scrambling to get our plane noise below 92dB because the friggin' rich neighbors don't like the noise from our airplanes. :grumble: I hope they plan to shut down the rock quarry 1/4 mile to the south of our property line and less than 3/8 mile south of the main runway. Those trucks and machines make a helluva racket too. Fair is fair. The homeowners can pool their resources and buy the rock quarry. I'm guessing it can't be worth more than $5 or $6 BILLION dollars.

But they'll pick on the model airplane guys first. We don't have the lawyers to fight back.

I want to ban people who want to ban other peoples fun.

Stupid thing about this hobby is we have all of the corals already. The reason why not everybody has them is due to human greed. As long as captive propagated corals remain over-priced, wild harvest will continue to lure cheap labor in unregulated countries. People smuggle heroin and weed into this country. I think they can figure out how to smuggle corals. When that happens, the prices will be even higher for all of it. Wild caught (illegal) corals will fetch high prices and that will in turn drive up the prices of captive farmed. Over greed.

I'm fun this morning, aren't I? :mrgreen:
 
Biff, believe me. There are people who want to ban the hobby. These movements are just the beginning. U.S. Considers Endangered Species Protection for 82 Stony Coral Species | Coral Magazine

There are crazies everywhere. I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could even find people who want to ban ice cream.

That article mentions the Center for Biological Diversity which put together the petition to have them listed as endangered. The CBD (which is located here in Tucson) is a highly respected organization that has had success getting animals such as sea turtles and manatees listed as endangered. They are not by any means a controversial or activist organization. The article doesn't say that the hobby would be banned -- it says it would be illegal to harvest these corals from the wild and transport them into the US.

There are already corals that are listed as endangered, and even extinct in the wild, yet we still have them in the hobby, readily available and cheap, due to captive propagation. The green nepthea is one of them. You can get green nepthea almost anywhere, yet all of its species are endangered, and several of them are extinct in the wild and only exist in people's tanks anymore.

Like I've been saying, I don't believe that listing these corals as endangered would harm the hobby. They don't breed the same way mammals, for example, breed, so they don't fall under the same category as most other endangered species do, so corals that are captive bred most likely wouldn't fall under the same guidelines as wild corals. The most important things with these endangered species issues is precedent -- and there is already precedent set for endangered corals. The precedent is that it is illegal to harvest from the wild, but captive propagation remains unregulated and unrestricted. The captive vs. wild species are almost treated as two different species for the sake of legalities. Precedent would hold in this situation and would be followed. It would be impossible for species that millions of people have in this country in their tanks already to be regulated at the federal level, and they haven't tried with other endangered corals, so they won't try for these either.

It is important that these wild colonies be protected, and listing them as endangered does a great deal towards accomplishing that goal. Just look at all species of seahorses and bangaii cardinals -- both listed as endangered species. Does that mean we can't keep them in this hobby? Not at all. There are hundreds of websites that sell them and you can find them in any store. Clarion angels are listed as endangerd, yet even wild caught, they are still legally available in this hobby (for a price). Several species of clownfish are endangered, but you can still buy clowns for less than $10. And they are bred in captivity all over the place. Corals will be no different, but still affordable since they can be bred in captivity.
 
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Biff, I agree with you on this one and I'll even go one step further to say that despite my love for the hobby, if it came down to it that we could impact the worlds reefs by not allowing the hobby to continue, I would give up my tank. The thought sends chills down my spine and I truly hope that hobbyist could have a positive impact on the worlds reefs by education and fundraising within the hobby but ultimately I think preserving our reefs comes ahead of personal satisfaction.
 
To be opposed to this new listing of endangered corals because 'it might end up meaning a ban of the entire hobby' is ridiculous. Apply common sense here: IF SOMETHING IS ALMOST EXTINCT IN THE WILD THEN PREVENT PEOPLE FROM F'ING WITH IT. Capiche everybody? Does anyone need a simpler explanation?
 
I stand by my belief that there are people who want to ban our hobby.

How dare you keep these innocent fish in little tanks! How would you like to be kept in a tank your whole life? How dare you use metal halide lights when they consume so much energy! How dare you remove fish and coral from the oceans! Free the fish! Open the zoos! Release all captive animals into the wild! Keeing a fish in a tank is tantamount to animal abuse! What gives you the right?

Believe me when I say there are people who think like that. I'm not saying there are lots of people out there, but they exist. After all, there are people who think that all people should die so that the world can live more naturally. (one of our members alludes to that with his The Matrix quote).
 
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