Filter questions, maybe a DIY in the future?

hotimportknight

hotimportknight

New! Big Tank Club!
Hey guys, when my skimmer is on in my skilter my entire tank gets overrun with tiny bubbles that makes it hard to concentrate on the actual stuff in the aquarium even more... I dont really like it. I was in the DIY section trying to find some plans on how to make a wet/dry system or whatever its even called, but Nothing really, a few pictures and discussion, but I dont even understand the basic concept of it really, well I do, but not the more advanced parts... I know you take water from the tank, have it go in 1 side of a tank below yours and filter through everything down there, at the pet store ive seen his with lots of live plants and algae in the bottom, skimmer down there, can you put the heater below in the water down there too im assuming? That would make my tank so much cleaner looking, and I could stack my rock a little better with out avoiding 3 spots on the back wall... Also would it fix all these tiny bubbles? I am a hands on person and really enjoy building things... Id prolly make it out of clear acrylic or something, because under my tank is an odd size to fit another thank i think... Its gotta be a max of 10" wide at the biggest point to fit between the supports in the middle and ends, and it can be quite long and pretty tall... I dont know how much room you need to leave for clearance on top, so ill give the max height, about 21 inches top to bottom between the doors. I think it would haev to be kind of shorter to angle it and work it in there, cause its a 4 foot long stand, but there is like a 6 inch support in the middle of it... Let me know what you guys think...
 
Also, what kind of equipment am I looking at purchasing for something like this? I can assume a pump of some sort to push the water back up, does it just siphon to get down to the lower tank? If thats the case, ive read about some overflows... how does that work? If the power went out and the pump stopped replacing water back into your tank, wouldnt the tank run dry then if there was an overflow? Not that the power has ever went out here, we live adjacent to an electric substation, we lost power ONCE in 12 years, and thats because a dodge neon ran into the substation and started our yard on fire... What other costs am i looking at for building something like this?
 
What you're looking at making is called a sump. It's a 2nd aquarium (or some people use rubbermaid tubs) that houses all the equipment away from the tank. Oftentimes it includes a separate section called a refugium, which houses a sand bed, live rock rubble and the macroalgae you were talking about.

It's super easy to make your own sump. I have done it using an existing aquarium, then going to Lowe's and getting plexiglass cut to fit for the baffles. You will need an overflow box if your tank is not drilled already. You can buy overflow boxes online or you can also find DIY plans to build on yourself. So the water is drawn out of the tank through the overflow box via a siphon, down into the sump, where it passes through all the equipment (skimmer, heater, filter, etc), through the refugium, where macroalgae grows (macroalgae stablized pH and takes up nutrients that would otherwise cause algae blooms in your main tank), and then a pump sends the water back into the main tank.
 
Oh about the power going out... If you are using an overflow box (siphon), then if the power goes out, the siphon will continue running until the water level gets below the lip of the overflow box. You need to make sure you have enough empty space in your sump to compensate for this extra water. Once the power kicks back on, the pump will return that water back to the main tank. You need to equip the overflow box with something that will restore the siphon in case of a power outage. I used a little $7 pump for that, and it worked just fine.
 
Ah.. I see how the overflow works now, thats the thing in the tank that lets water over it, but if the power went out, it would only drain so far until it wouldn't go over the overflow anymore... The problem with using an existing aquarium is, I dont think I can fit any normal sized aquarium under mine, its only 10.5" max, so i was figuring on cutting it off at 10" to leave a little bit of wiggle room... Also there is only 16" of room between the door to angle it in there. Is there a small enough aquarium that you guys would recommend, im not familiar with the dimensions on a normal 10 gallon tank... but Ive got a brand new 20 someone gave me, its WAY to wide though.
 
If my tank doesnt have an overflow with a line out at the bottom of it (mine doesnt have an overflow at all, can you still work with that? Or would m ytank have to be empty and I would have to silacone one in the corner with it empty? If thats the case, I think im gunna have to stick with my noisy bubbly skimmer/filter on the side of my aquarium...
 
You're exactly right about how the overflow works.

With my old 55 gallon tank, the 20 gallon sump I made didn't fit underneath the tank either. So it sat on the floor next to the tank. You can use any container you want (as long as it's not metal). Go to Walmart and see if you can find a rubbermaid tub of a good size that will fit.

20 gallon tanks have too shapes, talls and longs. A tall might fit under your stand. I'm guessing if the one you have is too wide, it's probably a long.

Keep in mind that you will need to have some space above the sump for plumbing, equipment, etc.

But like I said, if an existing tank doesn't work, your best bet is some kind of tupperware/rubbermaid.
 
A sump/refugium is the way to go these days.If your going the DIY route better off buy a fish tank as your sump.You can buy plexiglass for the baffles at Lowe's or HD.Biff use her old 55g as her sump/refugium,maybe she can post a pic of it.

Read this link,its an old thread but shows the basis on how water travels from the overflow and back to the display.......https://www.livingreefs.com/forums/off-topic-forum/2968-rayray-how-works.html
 
hotimportknight said:
If my tank doesnt have an overflow with a line out at the bottom of it (mine doesnt have an overflow at all, can you still work with that? Or would m ytank have to be empty and I would have to silacone one in the corner with it empty? If thats the case, I think im gunna have to stick with my noisy bubbly skimmer/filter on the side of my aquarium...
Click to expand...

You can still work with that. If your tank has holes in the bottom, that's called drilled or "reef ready". If yours doesn't, you get the overflow box that hangs off the back of the tank that lifts water over the side of the tank. If you use an overflow box, there is no drilling required.

Here is the one I used to have:

CPR Overflow Boxes

Here is a link to DIY sump and overflow box plans. There are also links to some pages that explain the concepts pretty well:

DIY Saltwater Aquariums Overflow Box Plans
 
What kind of equipment would you expect to put on it? how does a normal skimmer work? does it go on the side or is it plumbed inline with the water flow and its sort of like a canister? All ive got is this combo thing. I read in some other threads about making it 3 compartments? Ive seen some prebuilt ones on ebay with the first section with a sock filter thing and then the water runs through bio-balls.
 
Instead of going the overflow route, couldn't you just make the intake hose for the siphon right near the top of the water instead and save 80$ on a fancy overflow? Sure during water changes you would have to restart the siphon i guess.
 
There are 3 types of skimmers (generally): hang on back (which just hangs on the back of your tank or sump), in-sump (which sits submerged in the sump), or external (which sits outside of the water, like in a closet or something, and is plumbed to the sump).

The skimmer is not made into 3 compartments. The sump is. I think you are getting the two terms confused. A skimmer is like a filter. It mixes air and water to form a foam, and the foam is collected in a cup, which you dump out. A sump is the actual 2nd aquarium underneath your main tank that holds all the equipment, including the skimmer. The most basic sump design includes three compartments -- one for equipment, one for a refugium, and one for a return pump to bring water back to the tank.
 
I just checked the dimensions of a 20 long, it would BARELY fit, exactly 10.5", but I doubt I would ever be able to get it in, its longer than the door is and there would be no angling it with 0 tolerance on the sides...
 
Sorry, yeah I meant the sump into 3 compartments, not the skimmer, which would be cost effective/quiet/ and also effective in a sump? the middle submerged one I'm assuming?
 
And will this sump be effective immediately? or will it have to grow macroalgea for a while before you can rely on it? Or can those bio-balls replace the algae? It would also be nice to have a refugium hidden under my main aquarium too...
 
Biff could you post a pic or send a link to where I can find some pics of your sump? I gotta run to class ASAP though, ill be back later, thanks for all the info guys!
 
I will post a pic when I get home from work/school today.

Don't use bioballs in a sump. They are nitrate factories unless you are religious about cleaning them frequently. And most people can't keep up with the cleaning, so they end up causing algae blooms.

Macro algae won't just grow on its own. You need to start off by buying a handful from your LFS. Then put that in your refugium and it will grow.

You can use any of the 3 types of skimmers. The hang on back kind would just hang on the back of the sump. In-sump (submerged) are the most commonly used. I just bought a new one (it's not here yet) that is giant and won't fit in my stand, so that skimmer is an external one and will go outside of the stand/tank.

Bioballs and algae are different. Like I said above, bioballs can become algae causing. Algae needs phosphates and nitrates to grow. If you keep macroalgae in your refugium, it will take up nitrates and phosphates from the water. These nutrients would otherwise fuel hair algae growth in your main tank, which you don't want. Basically, by keeping macro algae, it competes with bad algae in your display tank.

The refugium is normally part of the sump -- one of the compartments. Usually the middle one. It's not normally separate from the sump, although it can be -- but that takes extra plumbing.
 
I just finished making my own sump/refugium today using a 20 gallon tall aquarium. it replaced the rubbermaid tub that I have been using for the past several months. the problem with using the rubbermaid tubs is that it is near impossible to add dividers and bubbletraps. the sides just flex out way too much to ever glue some in and have them stay put. also, from my experience glass is the better option over plexiglass. the glass is 1/4 the cost of plexiglass, and it doesn't bow out under water pressure like the plexiglass does. if you don't want to tackle cutting it yourself, just give the hardware store you're diminsions and they will cut it for you.
 
Alright, Do you guys think a 10 tall will be remotely big enough for my 50 gallon tank? I think the only thing that is smaller than 10.5" is the 10 tall from what i can tell... I have that nice 20 that would work, but it wont fit underneath my tank by any means, and my room is already very crowded the way it is... unless I somehow set this up in my closet which is like 3 feet away? that would hold down the noise too im sure.. Can this be done with flexible tubing or is PVC the only thing you would recommend to run the water from the display to the sump? cause that would be cool to throw that 20 long in the closet on a shelf and have everything in there hidden behind the door, including the noises...
 
And what about the idea of just putting the main siphon fitting just below the surface to eliminate the need for an overflow? Far enough down to compensate for evaporation but not deep enough to flood my room... These bubbles are driving me nuts, they are accumulating under my live rock making some decent sized bubbles I can see now...
 

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