Health Care Bill

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by mcmusashi5, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. mcmusashi5

    mcmusashi5 Octopus Wizard

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    I know maybe some people have posted about this but I just wanna say what they are doing is just plain unconstitutional. A government that does not stand for the people by the people with the people etc. is not a government at all
     
    mcmusashi5, Mar 18, 2010
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  2. mcmusashi5

    VAreef

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    I think the phrase your looking for was "of the people, by the people, for the people"
     
    VAreef, Mar 18, 2010
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  3. mcmusashi5

    mcmusashi5 Octopus Wizard

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    haha sorry
     
    mcmusashi5, Mar 18, 2010
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  4. mcmusashi5

    rwynn Big Daddy

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    What exactly are they doing that is unconstitutional?
     
    rwynn, Mar 18, 2010
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  5. mcmusashi5

    bjohanson1234 .........

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    They are trying to "deem" it voted on. Basically, they want to vote on changes to the bill then if those changes pass, the bill is then "deemed" passed based on the vote of the changes.

    It has been used 20 times in the past 30 years by both democrats and republicans. Not sure if anything has actually passed by doing it or not. The news report didnt say.

    Also, it seems that the politicians complaining about it now, have probably tried using it in the past since it is used on average every couple years. Kind of makes them look like hypocrits. I know I totally misspelled that word.
     
    bjohanson1234, Mar 18, 2010
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  6. mcmusashi5

    mcmusashi5 Octopus Wizard

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    some people are saying that they might pass it with out a vote
     
    mcmusashi5, Mar 18, 2010
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  7. mcmusashi5

    dcantucson

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    Well we do need a Health Care Bill. Just don't know if it's this one.
     
    dcantucson, Mar 18, 2010
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  8. mcmusashi5

    yote Ceritfied Mantis Hunter Moderator

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    Agreed.
     
    yote, Mar 18, 2010
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  9. mcmusashi5

    PRC Stop Quoting Me!

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    They are using different terminology and calling it "deemed". The actual defintion of it is called reconciliation. But the American public wasn't paying attention 2 weeks ago when the were calling it reconcilation, so they changed the name to "deemed". It's used frequently, and in most cases used by republicans to push their specifc programs.

    Here are a couple of articles if you'd like to read them.

    Ezra Klein - Did Republicans use reconciliation for significantly bipartisan bills?

    Think Progress GOP Senators Who Used Budget Reconciliation To Pass Bush Agenda Items Now Calling It ‘Chicago Style Politics’
     
    PRC, Mar 18, 2010
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  10. mcmusashi5

    coffeebean youreamoron.com member #8

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    What bothers me is all the hoopla about "single payer" health plan. We already have it in some form. I think it's called Medicare, also what the Vets get through the V.A. and then there's the health plan Congress gets for LIFE. Coffeebean :twocents:
     
    coffeebean, Mar 18, 2010
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  11. mcmusashi5

    RyanG ^*Eternal Dumbass*^

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    First off the whole process was masterminded by a Democrat Sen. Robert Byrd, although it was primarily set up to vote on budgetary matters but the whole thing stinks!

    The Senate was given its properties by our founding fathers for a reason, the supramajority gives the American minority(in this case the party that is not in power) a voice. The Executive branch and the House of Reps were designed to give its powers to the the voice of the majority The Senate was designed to specifically not work that way, it was meant to be a voice of moderation and compromise between the haves and have nots in the power struggle. The necessary 60 votes needed for Senate approval is meant to be a check and ballance of power in the law making policy.

    The reconcilliation process was NEVER intended to be used for wide-sweeping broadcast social changes, it was meant to be used for budgetary issues only. If they are willing to gut the Senate of its key role on this social issue what is going to prevent them from doing it all the time? Thus relegating the Senate to another House of Representatives and fundamentally changing the dynamics of the Legislative Branch and how laws and policies are enacted in our country.

    OBTW here is a list of those Democratic Senators that argued vehomently that the Senate supramajority MUST be kept. In 2005 the Republican majority was trying to eliminate the supramajority rules for confirmation of Judicial nominees.

    Senators Bayh, Biden, Clinton, Dodd, Durbin, Feingold, Feinstein, Harkin, Kohl, Lautenberg, Leahy, Murray, Nelson, Reid, and Schumer. Some of these have moved on from the senate but it still reads as a whos who in the democratic party.

    EDIT: Here is a link to a large compilation of polls where it clearly shows that the majority of the country is OPPOSED to this health care reform bill.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html#polls
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
    RyanG, Mar 19, 2010
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  12. mcmusashi5

    Cathic Fish Wrangler

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    If you think we will end up with anything like what the Congress has health care wise, you are sadly mistaken; also, reconciling is different than "self executing" "deemed" bills. you reconcile 2 bills into one, you use "self executing" and "deemed" targeting to pass them without a vote. Not that it really matters, this will probably go back and forth between the house and senate until people are to tired to care anymore. That is assuming it passes this first round.
     
    Cathic, Mar 19, 2010
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  13. mcmusashi5

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    I agree with this. The American public is TIRED of the healthcare debate already! Why does it take so long to get anything done in American politics? Really, it's kind of ridiculous. Either pass it or don't. Get on with it.
     
    Bifferwine, Mar 19, 2010
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  14. mcmusashi5

    coffeebean youreamoron.com member #8

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    The reason, IMHO, that many are opposed is that it has been messed with, watered down to make it palletable (sp) to the most people. ie. "what do I have to do to get you to vote for this". Also, how are these many polls worded? It makes a difference.
     
    coffeebean, Mar 19, 2010
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  15. mcmusashi5

    Cathic Fish Wrangler

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    BIFF we can actually AGREE on something! YAY!

    But seriously, not sure what is going to happen, the problem with politics is everyone wants a little something something you know what I mean? If they are not getting anything out of it they don't want to participate in it. They are all garbage for the most part. We will see if anything happens.

    Coffeebean, these polls have been worded in several different ways, several different times. from "Do you think HC reform will raise taxes?" to Do you want the current bill to pass?" and "Do you think the reform should start over clean?" etc etc. it goes on and on and the overwhelming amount of them turn out to be not in favor, just my two pennies though.
     
    Cathic, Mar 19, 2010
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  16. mcmusashi5

    sen5241b

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    I am 100% in favor of the fine for people who don't buy into the health plan. Why? Because they are a bunch of leeches. When someone with out health care insurance shows up at a public hospital sick or having been in an accident, the hospital cannot be law turn them away. You have one and only one guess who pays for everything. The taxpayer and the consumer. Yes, that's right --if you have health insurance and you are paying big time for your insurance then you are subsidizing the leeches who have none. Public hospitals already are subsidized by the Federal government for just this kind of scenario. The people who insist on riding motorcycles without helmets, no health insurance and then get a head injury --these people alone cost hundreds of millions a year to taxpayers and consumers every year.
     
    sen5241b, Mar 19, 2010
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  17. mcmusashi5

    Cathic Fish Wrangler

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    The fine will be cheaper than what it will cost to have health insurance, if it passes I'll drop my health insurance and wait till I need it then buy it, rinse and repeat, might as well play the system the way they set it up.
     
    Cathic, Mar 19, 2010
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  18. mcmusashi5

    yote Ceritfied Mantis Hunter Moderator

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    Guess I'm one of those leeches then.
    I canceled my insurance several months ago.
    The reason I canceled it.Because when you pay 150 something dollars a week out of YOUR paycheck and the insurance company tells YOU that they don't cover a prescription ( which I paid $170.00 for ) for YOUR sick child to help her breath.
    Try getting a bill where the insurance company paid $70 to an anesthesiologist and left YOU with $1500 left for YOU to pay after YOUR child had an emergency appendectomy.


    If you really want health care reform.
    Then make the insurance companies at least give me what I pay for.
    But I guess that to much for a leech to ask for.
     
    yote, Mar 20, 2010
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  19. mcmusashi5

    VAreef

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    Hey now this fine if you call it that is jack :pooh: What 750 bucks a year? And health insurance companies can't turn you down? You can bet I would rather pay 750 bucks a year and then when I get sick then I will call up and get health insurance. Hey they can't turn me down. I seriously doubt its the very few motorcyclists out there riding without helmets and health insurance getting into accidents that is costing us hundreds of millions of dollars. It would be more believable that its the millions of illegal aliens using our health care system and not paying for it.
     
    VAreef, Mar 20, 2010
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  20. mcmusashi5

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Hello reading comprehension! He never said health insurance can't turn you down. He said that hospitals can't turn you away. Which is true. They must, by law, treat you if you show up at the hospital with an emergency, whether you have insurance or not, whether you can pay or not. Guess who ends up paying? The rest of the taxpayers. It is true that people that do not have insurance that go to hospitals cost everyone else money. The rest of us end up paying for it in our insurance premiums and health care costs. An emergency room visit can easily cost tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Someone who doesn't have insurance and can't pay for their visit ends up passing the costs on to everyone else. These emergency room visits by the uninsured (AMERICAN UNINSURED, not illegal immigrants) have forced 2 of the 3 emergency rooms in Tucson, where I live to close in the last 5 years. There are so many uninsured people here, and they end up costing me, and everyone else that does carry insurance tons of money, and because of them, access to hospitals becomes even more restricted to the rest of us because hospitals cannot afford to operate with so many uninsured people coming in.

    All those uninsured folks that don't want "socialized" medicine become leeches as soon as they visit the doctor for a condition that they cannot afford to pay for. Taxpayers end up picking up their tab. They show up at the hospital expecting and wanting treatment, even though they have no way to pay for it, so the government ends up paying for it because the hospital has to treat them, and these are the same people that object to government provided medical care? WTF? They don't understand that if they can't pay their medical bills, it is the taxpayers that end up paying them? So they are okay with taxpayers paying their medical bills when they need it, but they don't want to pay for anyone else's. Hypocrites.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
    Bifferwine, Mar 20, 2010
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