Help help help please!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by Momo, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. Momo

    Momo

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    Hi All,

    Help is needed big time here, I don’t know where I am going wrong and its stressing me out way too much.

    First of all here is the list

    Juwel 400
    white T8 /BLue T8
    Eheim Bucket filter (Large) - (filled with substrate and sponges)

    steriliser with powerflo
    Powerflo sitting at top X2
    Dead coral rock from one end to the other
    Live Rock (8KG)

    LEVELS

    Nitrite 0
    Nitrate 0
    PH 8.2
    Water hardness is perfect
    2 heaters (heat is at 82-84F)

    Feeding times

    Twice every two days. Morning and evening

    All around 3 weeks ago.

    I had the following fish and stress had.

    Dog Nose Puffer
    Damsel (Black with one white spot)
    Lion Fish
    Trigger
    Clown sweet lips X2
    Spiky Puffer
    Green bird Wrasse
    Black and White Damsel
    Many hermit crabs and snails


    All these fish were happy swimming, eating when fed all established fish. One day I woke to find that the Black Damsel was breathing heavily.. checked the water quality and it read that levels were the same as above, regardless did a water change at 15%.

    Breathing went back to normal and the Damsel was swimming happily for four days, Trigger was a very bluey/black colour which on the fourth day I noticed its colour was not right I was pale.

    Fifth day: all these fish were wiped out dead.

    All crabs and snails are fine. The only survivor in the fish region was a small Valentini Pufferfish, with no marks, defects health issues nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I took my self to the aquarium and asked what went wrong and they couldn’t explain. Also took a water sample nothing came up from the aquarium at the shop.

    I left it for a few days did a partial water change (30%) and left that for a few days.

    Paralyased by the death of these fish who have been around for good while now) 8 months longest survivor is was 1.3 years old... I was keen to refill the tank back up with some fish but did not want to get a bite of money dropping if they die. So I bought 6 emperor damsels. My wife didn’t tell me but she decided to buy more fish and place them in the tank (I have taught her how to put fish into the tank (slowly and leaving them to float for a little bit add water and leaving to float again before taking them into the tank).

    So now I had 3 tiny emperor damsel, 2 clown fish, regal tang, valentine puffer and a blue damsel, oh Also she bought a queen trigger.

    Woke again this morning to find that the following are missing

    Regal Tang Missing
    Both clowns Missing
    Emperors Missing

    6 fish missing over night, no trace. The larges was the regal tang at 1.5 inches


    So I only have the following fish/life in the tank now who are again active eating no underlying problems that I can see.

    Queen trigger
    Puffer
    Blue damsel
    Various hermits and snails
    And a normal crab (patterned)
    Also I have two anemone



    All these fish are alive and well, the water is crystal clear the quality, temp, is perfect or so I think unless I am missing something obvious I also mixed a crushed garlic clove in with the food this morning to boost their immune system.

    PLEASE HELP INFORM OF WHAT I CAN DO TO SORT THIS MESS OUT!!!

    I have a feeling more deaths will occur and that I am blind to is happening and neither I or my local has a clue.

    I would appreciate any help as this is too much and I do not want to add more fish, wife has been informed not to buy anymore until I know what is going on.. also this is costly way!!!

    One other thing that filter was cleaned in saltwater from the tank.

    I have had aquariums for almost 7 years now




     
    Momo, Mar 14, 2011
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  2. Momo

    wontonflip I failed Kobayashi Maru

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    Bummer :( Can you think of anything you changed in the tank? Anything new you did? So you're using crushed coral for your substrate instead of aragonite? Maybe you stirred it up and caused a spike in ammonia.Just in case, have your lfs test your water. Maybe yours went bad. I bought brand new test kits that turned out bad after only a month (probably on the shelf a long time)...I did a side by side test w/ a new kit and the lfs kit. My first set were definitely bad.

    Could be stray voltage, too...old equipment going bad. Any weird temperature swings? What exactly is your salinity, and do you use a swing arm tester, or a refractometer?

    P.S. restocking so fast won't help your cause, either...should've spread out the stocking over time....hopefully you told your wife that, too :) Welcome to the site!
     
    wontonflip, Mar 14, 2011
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  3. Momo

    Momo

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    Hi Wontonflip,

    yep using crushed coral, i think there is about 30kg in there. no stirring went on or not that i know of. only I work on the tank.

    The thing is my test kit and the test kit at the local showed the same result.

    temps fluxuate from 80 to 84 f.

    I knew I would have forgotten to mention something on the 1st post.

    Yes I am using a refractometer. Salinty is 1.022 to 1.024

    lol yeah i told the wife, i bought my lot and then she bought her lot to suprise me but she didnt realise that it would do more damage than good.

    I don't know whether i need more live rock for more filtatration or is there some sort of parasite in there.

    i had green green algae grow a while back but the sterlizer was bought to kill and reduce that. could that of benefited tank?
     
    Momo, Mar 14, 2011
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  4. Momo

    Kazarko

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    what foods did you feed, frozen, or fresh food for the puffer and other fish? (illness from the food?)
    when was the last time you changed the substrate on that bucket filter?(nitrates released?)
    how old are your test kits?
    any stray voltage or copper introduced? test for copper
     
    Kazarko, Mar 14, 2011
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  5. Momo

    little_fish Moderator

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    Do you have a large enough tank for those fish? They require very large systems and will stress and die in smaller systems.
     
    little_fish, Mar 14, 2011
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  6. Momo

    Momo

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    Hi,
    The tank is 450 litres or just under 100 gallons. its 5 foot in length.
    it has housed those fish almost a year now, i dont think the size is anything to with it, if i could i would get a 10ft tank but living room is not as large enough. one day though :).

    They have all types of frozen food from mysis, shrimp, kryll, red plankton, etc etc

    i did up until about 4 months ago feed them from frozen until a friend pointed out to thaw the food first which is what i started doing immediatley.

    The bucket filter was cleaned out about 1 month ago now. using the aquarium saltwater.. I had feeling it could be this but the LFS said it wont be this to have caused Mass Death.

    I am intrigued, what do you mean about stray voltage would this have caused for copper to be released in to the tank or am i reading this wrong?

    thanks
     
    Momo, Mar 14, 2011
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  7. Momo

    ErinCahir Sausage Wrangler

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    Hello. Welcome to the site.
    The trigger really does need a bigger tank. Most of the time, the recommended minimum gallons for a fish is not because of how large the fish gets, but because of behavior. Triggers like to swim, and being in a tank that is too small will stress them and cause excess aggression.
    I don't really know about copper or stray voltage... both of those generally kill the inverts off first.
    Here is a link for the stray voltage
    Identifying, Locating and Curing Stray Voltage in a Saltwater Aquarium
    Do you have live rock?
     
    ErinCahir, Mar 14, 2011
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  8. Momo

    wontonflip I failed Kobayashi Maru

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    Copper wouldn't kill the fish, just the inverts. But copper treatment can stress fish....did you treat the main tank with copper?

    The tank's size wouldn't be the sudden cause of the first fish deaths. It would be a long term stress, but not a sudden one.

    Definitely check for stray voltage.
     
    wontonflip, Mar 14, 2011
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  9. Momo

    Momo

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    Hi ErinCahir, yes i have live rock.. although not as much as i want i have just over 8kg in there

    All the first batch of fish have been in the tank for a minimum of 8 months. i think trigger was in their for about 9 months. he was only 2 inches in length. i understand what you mean but i could not have had all these deaths triggered by the trigger (no pun intended).


    Thanks for the link. i will read on this.
     
    Momo, Mar 14, 2011
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  10. Momo

    Momo

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    hi wontonflip. all inverts are fine, so does that mean there is no copper in the tank. never treated it with copper

    need to look into this stray voltage
     
    Momo, Mar 14, 2011
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  11. Momo

    Waddi Shenanigans? VIP Member

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    Sure you have no unwanted guests???

    P.S where about do you live in London?? I used to live in Reading just outside of it.
     
    Waddi, Mar 14, 2011
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  12. Momo

    AmberSunrise

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    What about anemones did you have any of those? They can wipe out a tank if they die.
     
    AmberSunrise, Mar 14, 2011
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  13. Momo

    Momo

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    no not that i can think of Waddi. i live in bromley.

    hi ambers, i have two anenomes but they are alive and kicking
     
    Momo, Mar 14, 2011
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  14. Momo

    sen5241b

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    IF you get enough copper in the tank it WILL kill fish!

    Also, IF you are ven going to use the Eheim Bucket filter, you need to clean it every 3 days. They are fine with fresh water tanks but generally not good for slat water tanks. Keep it around for emergencies though.
     
    sen5241b, Mar 14, 2011
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  15. Momo

    Momo

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    My filter is an Eheim 2260?, i have seen it used on on larger tanks than mine with more fish than i ever had. u sure?
     
    Momo, Mar 14, 2011
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  16. Momo

    Sharkie The Damsel Defender

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    Eheim filters are great for freshwater but they aren't that good on salt water tanks...

    First, do you have any mantis shrimp in your tank? You'll hear a lot of clicking noises... that would be a good guess on where missing fish are going. I would assume that if there was stray voltage you would still have bodies (however, still check for it).

    What type of corals do you have in your tank? You said you had anemones and that they are alive-but do they just look alive? Sometimes nems will be great looking and the next day they are all shrively and dead and that can wipe out the entire tank.

    I wouldn't worry about copper-your inverts would've been dead first.

    Also, when you do have this figured out when you add fish back in only add 1-2 every 3 weeks or so. that way there isn't a huge massive die off if something does happen.

    how old is your test kit? my LFS doesn't change out their test kits at all so I've bought a new one every 4 months or so just so i know it's testing right.
     
    Sharkie, Mar 14, 2011
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  17. Momo

    wontonflip I failed Kobayashi Maru

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    Good call :D Guess it wasn't it, though, but still. good call.
     
    wontonflip, Mar 14, 2011
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  18. Momo

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Here's my guess as to what's going on.

    You only have 8 kg of live rock in a 100 gallon tank? That's like 16 lbs of rock. You really should have 1 to 2 lbs of live rock per gallon, or 100 to 200 lbs of live rock (50 to 100 kg). Live rock is the #1 source of filtration for your tank. You basically have zero natural biological filtration in your tank, which is not good.

    What that means, is that it can take just one little thing dying to cause a cascade of death, because your tank just does not have the bacterial population needed to handle an excess amount of waste. You said this started with one fish looking funny and then dying?

    I bet that one fish dying kicked off a massive chain of poisoning the rest of the fish.

    You really need more rock. Like, LOTS of more rock. The bacteria has nowhere to live in your tank as it normally colonizes the surface area of rock.
     
    Bifferwine, Mar 15, 2011
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  19. Momo

    Dana42078 Dana

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    Biff hit the nail on the head there.
     
    Dana42078, Mar 15, 2011
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  20. Momo

    sen5241b

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    Use the Eheimonly to filter out some toxin in an emergency. Do not use canister filters on a permanent basis unless you are going to clean them out completely every 3 days.
     
    sen5241b, Mar 15, 2011
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