Help Please!!! Major Snail Problems

saltydog

Reefing newb
Greetings! This is my first post to this forum. We are at our wits end and don't know where to turn, so any help or suggestions would be appreciated. We have gone from a 90 gallon bowfront tank which was a challenge to keep the water balanced, to a 210 gallon tank which we've plumbed with it's own filter system to keep our water and fish happier! This upgrade and change happened in MAY. The local saltwater store who set things up, and is the only place to purchase fish, is also my only contact for troubleshooting, don't have any answers or solutions for the problem. They have been doing 1x month maintenence for us, but so far we are continuing to have major snail problems.

When it was set up in May - they neglected to install the ground. Most of the fish survived the shock, but shrimp, snails, and other sensitive things didn't, and we've lost more new corals than we've been able to keep.

Since the ground probe was installed nothing has changed!!! Old snails that were still alive, and all new snails that have been added to the tank do their job briefly then just lay on their backs and don't move. The are alive if you poke them, but once they flip over that's it! If I pick them up and stick them back on the wall, they will crawl for a short period of time and then are on the bottom belly up.

I'd be fine if it was just one or two - but when all 15-20 snails in the tank are lying on their back - it's evident to me that there is a problem!

My starfish has died, hardshelled crabs...and corals either die or just don't grow!

I continue to be told that my water is balanced perfectly, no grounding issues, and that snails just die it's a part of having a tank! This is unacceptible to me - I know there is a problem, but have no idea what to check or change to keep my snails and crabs alive! All of the fish that were in the old 90 gal. tank are fine, most of the new fish that we've added are doing well also!

Does anybody have suggestions for things we can check or change??? My boyfriend has had a saltwater tank for 10+ years, but is ready to have somebody take it away because everything we're spending on plants and animals to put in the tank only lasts for 2-3 days at most and are upside down or dead.

I'm looking forward to some experienced help. Know it takes a while to get a new tank established, but don't think our problems are related to a new tank...

Thank-you!
 
Have you tested the water any yourselves? What are the results?

It is absolutely vital, especially in a new tank, that you test the water regularly to ensure it is in perfect health. With regular testing, any changes in your water quality can be observed and quickly put right.

There are many test kits available but the basic ones you will need are:

Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH
Alkalinity
Some people find it useful to have phosphate and oxygen tests while if you intend to keep hard corals you will also need the following:

Magnesium
Calcium
In addition, if you are using copper based medication in a hospital tank, you will need a copper test kit.
 
You should go buy the test kits that David mentioned, especially copper, and tell us what your readings are. Also buy a hydrometer or refractometer and tell us what your salinity is. And how much does the tank's temperature vary throughout a 24 hour period?

It would cost you far less in the long run if you learned how to maintain the tank and test your parameters yourself. That way, you can detect a problem before it kills a bunch of animals. You are told that your water is balanced perfectly, yet when something dies, you pay the same people even more money to replace it, right? Sounds like your fish store has a fail-proof business plan to me! ;)

I'm not saying your fish store is doing anything dishonest, but you can't be certain of what's going on unless you start taking some steps yourself, and coming on here and asking about it is a good first step, so welcome!!
 
+1 biff and dcan. Sounds like either a nitrate problem or a ph swing issue to me. Invertebrates cant handle the amount of nitrates that fish can. Same on ph swing. When you test your ph you need to do one when the tank first lights up and then again just before the main lights go off. If it is more the a .2 difference then that could be your issue. If that is not it then if the nitrates are above 20 then thats it. For corals and inverts it should be as close to 0 as possible. 20 and above is a death sentence for them. Welcome to the forum glad to have you here. Please test your own water, its your tank only you will have the well being of your animals in mind. Some fish sellers only want to sell you stuff. If you dont want to clue them in on the fact that you are going to test go to petco or petsmart and get a API marine basic kit. Or you can get one on line. The API one I feel is the easiest to use. Oh by the way a good solution for either issue would be a refugium on a reverse photo cycle. You will need Macro algae in it , I prefer cheteo. Anyway the macro algae will eat up the nitrates and having the light on it reverse of the tank will stabilize the ph.
 
Thanks everyone! I'll pull out my test kit and start monitoring more. I do take water samples in between cleanings - and again am always told things are perfect. We do have a refugium on the tank, but I think the lights are on 24 hours. The first 2 months the algae grew lots, since then not growing at all and I've had to add. So do we need to have the light on for 12 and off for 12 for the refuguim??? Will post again after I've tested the water for in the am/pm to see if there's a change.
 
i'm pretty sure everything should have a rest period from the light, that way it has time to sleep...? lol. i'm not sure what you would call it for algae but everything needs a time of darkness so its prolly a good idea to turn it off for a bit :)

welcome to the forums! everyones got ya covered....

have you ever tried to order things online?
 
A 24 hour light cycle for the fuge is just fine -- that's what I run on my tank. That's not your problem.

Another thing I forgot to mention, if you had a stray voltage problem and they added a grounding probe, that doesn't fix the problem. Stray voltage is caused by a piece of faulty equipment. You need to identify and remove the bad piece of equipment to fix the problem. It sounds like you may still have that problem, and that could be killing everything.

Read this article and follow the steps to determine if you still have stray voltage in your tank.

Identifying, Locating and Curing Stray Voltage in a Saltwater Aquarium

If you don't have one at home already, head to the hardware store and pick up a voltemeter (it will cost you about $10 to $15).

And you're right, what is happening in your tank is not normal. If the fish store tells you it is, they are lying to you. Snails should live years -- often they can live for the lifetime of the tank.
 
Yup, better off to test that fish store and your water yourself. I ran into that problem at a fish store, it's hard to believe that they would rather sell to you than actually help. But then you realize that they NEED to sell, not fix problems and have you stop buying from them. I would also ask them not to come and service the tank, who's to say they aren't maintaining your tank the right way.

Snails shouldn't really die, I had one I "lost" for about a month, found him on the floor behind the tank. I dropped him back in there and in aout 2 days he was out walking around having drinks with his freinds again!
 
I know that my maintenance guy has checked for stray voltage since installing the probe, and we have also monitored this since continued problems. The needle on the voltemeter doesn't move... So it appears that stray voltage isn't the problem, but my snails still act like they are in shock.

From your post about this, if I understand you correctly if the ground probe is neutralizing the problem so the voltemeter doesn't read stray voltage, but the reason for the voltage issue in the first place has not been corrected - that is why we may still be having problems???
 
unhook the ground probe and test the water and start unpluging thing one aat a time until you figure out what is peice bad. a ground prob does not fix the problem it just hides it. do all your own maintence every week. test your own water and learn more about the hobby here or in books this way when you got to the lfs you are not getting things sold to you that you do not need
 
You got great advice here, salty. As much as I love my lfs, it's usually the bottom line (ie, $$$$) that dominates. So it's always a good idea to rely on yourself (and Livingreefs!!).

I ran my fuge light 24/7 for around 7 months with no problems. I switched to alternating day/night w/ my main tank (meaning, fuge light is off when main tank lights are on, and vice versa). I just wanted to see if there's any difference. There's really not, so far, except slower chaeto growth. Like Biff said, 24/7 is perfectly fine.

Take one step at a time, and start with the simplest things -- parameters. Make sure your test kit isn't old, too. I've had false readings from old kits (even ones I bought 2 months prior!). And test strips are pretty much unreliable, so make sure you get drops.
 
And you're right, what is happening in your tank is not normal. If the fish store tells you it is, they are lying to you. Snails should live years -- often they can live for the lifetime of the tank.

I think you should tell your aquarium guys, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining." :shock:
 
I can only emphasis what others have said here: copper will kill inverts fast, inverts cannot survive in high nitrates. Phosphates are very bad for corals. I added a small chaeto filled fuge 10% the size of my main display and it brought my 'trates way down. Be sure to add a powerful plant light (florescent or halogen are good) close to the fuge with at least 10 watts per gallon. You can probably get a cheap plant light at home depot or target.

Fuges can be very cheap to setup. Skimmers (a bit pricey) will also bring 'trates down.

In order to prevent a tank disaster you might want to look at this:

https://www.livingreefs.com/marine-aquarium-disasters-and-prevent-them-t20514.html
 
+1 Everybody
The ground plug is in the tank so that you dont get lit up when working around it.So just unplug it and check for the voltage.And check for copper.
I'm guessing that the problem is either stray voltage,copper in the water,or low salinity.
 
Good advice to be found here Salty. My first advice would be to stop adding snails or anything else to the tank. All the dead snails could be causing more issues for your other living inhabitants because of the bioload changes from dead decaying inverts. The last thing you want is a mini-cycle I really hope you properly cycled your new tank before transferring fish over? Also, some snails simply cannot flip themselves over and will die if tipped over. Also, copper is very bad for inverts. Just a stray shiny penny can probably kill all your snails. Maybe you have copper pipes in your residence? Get your water tested for copper. Also, many fish stores will offer a free water test for you for the more common water test parameters. Lastly... do you have any new fish that might be chomping on the snails and or nibble on coral like a puffer fish?
 
Everybody here is great! BLESS YOU ALL and THANK YOU!

I've got lots to troubleshoot now and get to the answer. Yes we are done adding things, but how do you know it's fixed until you pop somebody new in and see what happens?

Can't say for sure that they tank was properly cycled, but believe it was as the new tank was installed - some of our rock transffered from the old tank, and a few starter fish for a couple of weeks before we transferred everyone in.

Our pipes are all PVC - but will test for copper. Don't have a puffer. Current fish are: 2 Banqqai Cardinals, 2 Pajama Cardinals, 1 Maroon Clown, 3 Goby's - (1 Dragon, 1 Green Mandarin, 1 Mandarin,) 1 Coral Beauty Angel, 1 Royal Bicolor Pseudochromis, 1 Blue Damsel, 5 Green Chromis Damsels, 1 Blue Hippo Tang, and can't find it online - some little stripped fish!

Corals - Leathers, zoos, 1 mushroom, brain, hammer? and I think the Kenya Tree Coral?

The leathers, and mushroom are doing ok - the softer corals not such good luck! I'm guessing whatever is killing my snails is also causing problems with these.

I now need to follow everyone's advice and will get back to you when I know more!
 
Good to see you're taking things in a good way salty!! we get some people that get angry at our advice D: but the people here know everything there is to know!! I know i've gotten through a LOT of problems with these people here and they are amazing help! :)

What kind of lighting do you have? im guessing you have the right kind but just wondering.. you should share some pictures with us! :D
 
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