yote
In Memoriam
Let us what the other store tells you and let them check everything.
Help Please!!! Major Snail Problems
- Thread starter saltydog
- Start date
Greetings Reef Experts! I'm so happy to know that in just a few minutes I'll have some input as I'm moving things forward to have a well-balanced tank and be able to keep my corals and cleaning crew alive! I have learned so much from all of you this week - Thank you for your continued assistance.
Here's where I'm at! Bought Ca and Copper tests kits last night.
Calcuim came it at 120 / Copper test showed clear. But when I called the store to tell them that - she asked me to bring in a water sample today - based on what I told them, she felt sure it is a copper issue. Evidently there are 2 types of copper? The test kit I purchased checked one, and there is a different test kit (they were out, but had theirs to check in the store) to test the other. It showed positive on the light end of the scale for copper! HOW WOULD I HAVE EVER KNOWN...
Hundreds of dollars later...(Isn't having a reef tank fun!) I am home with:
Chemi-pure elite to begin removing my copper (water change coming soon...)
A test kit for Iodine, and a test kit for Magnesium.
Liquid Calcium, Tech M Magnesium, Iodide, and Strontium & Molybdenum
Would have had all this stuff a long time ago if anybody would have told us they were so desparately needed. I now completely understand why we've had so much trouble with the tank and am more furious by the second at the store and guy who set things up and has been "selling" me stuff and doing maintenance.
Here's my question for the evening.
My Calcium reading is at 120 (VERY Low) My Magnesium reading is 1050 (also LOW) My Iodide is at 0! Iodate and Iodine is also at 0! The poor creatures in my tank...
I've started on daily dosing for Iodide - How long before I check it again to see if it's coming up?
I need to add Mg and Ca. I know that I've got to have enough Mg for my Ca to work - isn't that correct? Can I add them both at the same time?
The Mg bottle says 1ml (1/4 tsp) per gallon each day until I'm in range 1250-1350. My math isn't the greatest 210 gallon tank = how many teaspoons are safe for me to add today? Seems like I'm going to need gallons of this stuff...
Since my Ca is so low also - seems like I should be adding this now too but if my Mg isn't in range will I be helping or hurting to add now? and since the bottle says 1/4-1tsp per 50 gallons each day...and I want to get things up to speed, but not completely shock the tank - where should I start?
Then I've got this Strontium and Molybdenum... Ok to start adding now, or wait until everything else is in better balance?
Look forward to your replies:)
Here's where I'm at! Bought Ca and Copper tests kits last night.
Calcuim came it at 120 / Copper test showed clear. But when I called the store to tell them that - she asked me to bring in a water sample today - based on what I told them, she felt sure it is a copper issue. Evidently there are 2 types of copper? The test kit I purchased checked one, and there is a different test kit (they were out, but had theirs to check in the store) to test the other. It showed positive on the light end of the scale for copper! HOW WOULD I HAVE EVER KNOWN...
Hundreds of dollars later...(Isn't having a reef tank fun!) I am home with:
Chemi-pure elite to begin removing my copper (water change coming soon...)
A test kit for Iodine, and a test kit for Magnesium.
Liquid Calcium, Tech M Magnesium, Iodide, and Strontium & Molybdenum
Would have had all this stuff a long time ago if anybody would have told us they were so desparately needed. I now completely understand why we've had so much trouble with the tank and am more furious by the second at the store and guy who set things up and has been "selling" me stuff and doing maintenance.
Here's my question for the evening.
My Calcium reading is at 120 (VERY Low) My Magnesium reading is 1050 (also LOW) My Iodide is at 0! Iodate and Iodine is also at 0! The poor creatures in my tank...
I've started on daily dosing for Iodide - How long before I check it again to see if it's coming up?
I need to add Mg and Ca. I know that I've got to have enough Mg for my Ca to work - isn't that correct? Can I add them both at the same time?
The Mg bottle says 1ml (1/4 tsp) per gallon each day until I'm in range 1250-1350. My math isn't the greatest 210 gallon tank = how many teaspoons are safe for me to add today? Seems like I'm going to need gallons of this stuff...
Since my Ca is so low also - seems like I should be adding this now too but if my Mg isn't in range will I be helping or hurting to add now? and since the bottle says 1/4-1tsp per 50 gallons each day...and I want to get things up to speed, but not completely shock the tank - where should I start?
Then I've got this Strontium and Molybdenum... Ok to start adding now, or wait until everything else is in better balance?
Look forward to your replies:)
Smitty
Reef pro
I'm glad to hear that you know what the problems are now, but be careful with just adding things to your tank, especially when you dont or you can't test for it...the best way to bring some balance to your system is water changes, and lots of them. New salt water has all the elements you need without having to dose. You should do like a 40-50% water change now...and then maybe a 20% weekly change thereafter. This is the best way to go about it...good luck, and thanks for keeping us updated.
Ted
Living one day at a time
+1 smitty Those are some major low numbers. I would diffidently try doing water changes to get them around. Remember only bad things happen fast. If you dose and bring up your levels to quickly you will lose everything you have now. What type of salt are you using? If it say instant ocean you will probably end up dosing if its say reef crystals you probably wont need to dose. I wish I could tell you how to dose your tank the right way but I cant. I do very frequent water changes and use reef crystals. I have been using reef crystals since I decided to go with reef tanks, when I was fowlr I used instant ocean. Anyway I have never had any need to dose while using reef crystals and I started using it in may. Good luck, I think in the end you will be better off now then you where before. You will have a much better understanding of this hobby since you are going to rely on your own action instead of some dude that comes by the house once a month.
yote
In Memoriam
+2 Smitty
Something else that will help.The next time your in the LFS,pick up a poly filter pad.There designed to pull medications out of the water and will help pull the copper out.But also keep in mind that the copper is embedded in the rock and will take a lot of time leech out.
For the other stuff,Dont dose anything just yet.Do the water changes like Smitty suggested and see where that puts the levels.Like Ted said,bringing them up to fast can be worse than them being so low.
With the water changes,you wont need the Strontium and Molybdenum.And may not need the iodine.
And dont forget to run those tests on the new water after its mixed for at least 24 hours.That'll let you know where you stand with your brand of salt.
Happy to hear that your getting somewhere with it and cant wait to see pics of that tank full of thriving corals.
Something else that will help.The next time your in the LFS,pick up a poly filter pad.There designed to pull medications out of the water and will help pull the copper out.But also keep in mind that the copper is embedded in the rock and will take a lot of time leech out.
For the other stuff,Dont dose anything just yet.Do the water changes like Smitty suggested and see where that puts the levels.Like Ted said,bringing them up to fast can be worse than them being so low.
With the water changes,you wont need the Strontium and Molybdenum.And may not need the iodine.
And dont forget to run those tests on the new water after its mixed for at least 24 hours.That'll let you know where you stand with your brand of salt.
Happy to hear that your getting somewhere with it and cant wait to see pics of that tank full of thriving corals.
Bifferwine
I am a girl
Has your maintenance guy been doing water changes? It's baffling to me that your numbers could be so low, since salt mixes contain all that stuff in a correct balance. You should start doing some water changes yourself, and that will definitely help gradually bring them up.
I'm glad you were able to figure out it was copper that was killing all your inverts. Copper was definitely one of the most obvious culprits. Do you have any idea where the copper was coming from? Here are a few ideas. It may help to figure it out so that you don't mistakenly keep adding it.
- Medicating the tank. If your fish have had ich or other diseases, your maintenance guy may have added medication that contained copper.
- Live rock and sand. You may have bought rock and sand that was in a tank that had been treated with copper. It soaks into the rock and sand, and will continue to leach out of it even if you move it to a new tank.
- Bad water. If you have been topping off the tank or doing water changes with straight tap water, chances are it contains copper (especially if you have copper plumbing in your house). This is why you should always use RODI water, or at minimum, treat tap water with a dechlorinator that neutralizes copper.
- Contamination. Has someone dropped a penny in your tank? Does any of your equipment have metal parts that are exposed to the water? (A lot of people accidentally buy brass parts, not realizing that brass is an alloy of copper). Parts of your equipment that are exposed to water should be plastic.
Hope some of those ideas can help narrow down where the copper came from.
I'm glad you were able to figure out it was copper that was killing all your inverts. Copper was definitely one of the most obvious culprits. Do you have any idea where the copper was coming from? Here are a few ideas. It may help to figure it out so that you don't mistakenly keep adding it.
- Medicating the tank. If your fish have had ich or other diseases, your maintenance guy may have added medication that contained copper.
- Live rock and sand. You may have bought rock and sand that was in a tank that had been treated with copper. It soaks into the rock and sand, and will continue to leach out of it even if you move it to a new tank.
- Bad water. If you have been topping off the tank or doing water changes with straight tap water, chances are it contains copper (especially if you have copper plumbing in your house). This is why you should always use RODI water, or at minimum, treat tap water with a dechlorinator that neutralizes copper.
- Contamination. Has someone dropped a penny in your tank? Does any of your equipment have metal parts that are exposed to the water? (A lot of people accidentally buy brass parts, not realizing that brass is an alloy of copper). Parts of your equipment that are exposed to water should be plastic.
Hope some of those ideas can help narrow down where the copper came from.
SeaBee
Ha Ha Thats Funny!
:lavalamp:Dont let anyone touch your tank except you. That means feedings too. When I went to a reef tank I had to tell the wife and kids not to feed, no matter how "hungry" the fish looked.
I say do what all the others say, but I would dose with the calcium asap, one dose. Then do a 20% water change asap, and let it settle a day and test again.
I would also look for another fish store, I dont think those guys are doing you any favors at all. They see dollar signs when you walk through the door.
My first store did that. I bought these corals from the guy and within a week they were looking dead, he said you need the better light, well he knew damn well what light I had. I bought a light online, he didnt like when I told him that, but now I drive right buy there and go to a new store, and this guy won't sell me certian things because he knows the lighting I have.
Anyway, I found this site same as you and these people seem to really know their stuff and help out for free. I need the butt-kissing emoticon now!!!!
I say do what all the others say, but I would dose with the calcium asap, one dose. Then do a 20% water change asap, and let it settle a day and test again.
I would also look for another fish store, I dont think those guys are doing you any favors at all. They see dollar signs when you walk through the door.
My first store did that. I bought these corals from the guy and within a week they were looking dead, he said you need the better light, well he knew damn well what light I had. I bought a light online, he didnt like when I told him that, but now I drive right buy there and go to a new store, and this guy won't sell me certian things because he knows the lighting I have.
Anyway, I found this site same as you and these people seem to really know their stuff and help out for free. I need the butt-kissing emoticon now!!!!
daugherty
part time reefer
i am glad to see you have it figured out go and buy a bucket of salt and start doing all your own maintence it will be in your best intrest you will know exactly what is going into your tank. it is a bit of work but will be cheaper in the long run. i can buy a bucket of salt for 50-60 bucks i have a ro to make water and with a bucket of oceanic salt i can make 200gal of water it prob cost less the 20cents a gal. you pay somebody 200 times that to come and do it for you and you have no idea what is going on with the tank. just my two cents
Only a guess... Same Rock we had in the old tank, same sand, but new was added so it could be a contributing factor. We are on a RO system with auto top off - so don't think that's the issue - all parts but the bolt holding the float valve are plastic. Would this stainless steel looking bolt be the issue? Heard rumors that the water in the bags of snails, fish, and crabs that we've purchased and added might have contained copper and at this point - that's my theory...
How frequently is it safe/appropriate to do water changes to help get things in better balance? My BF is going to help me tomorrow I've seen recommendations here that range from 20-50% change. Want to fix the problems, but not screw things to bounce to another extreme... any thoughts on the best plan of action? Here's what I'm thinking....50% change tomorrow? then 20-30% change once a week until we're stable? then how frequently SHOULD one be doing water changes (we were on a 1x month program) but I'm wondering if that was not enough to keep things happy.
If I'm way off here - any and all advice and suggestions are welcomed.
project5k
Reef enthusiast
personally, i wouldnt do any more than 20% in any given 48 hour period unless you are trying to clean out a serious contamination like a soda getting poured in or something like that...
changing the water too much too fast can cause stress and shock and could cause more things to get sick if not die...
My personal suggestion, considering the situation that you are in, is that i would do 20% changes every other day for a week or so, testing all your levels on the "slow days"
that'll help bring up the trace levels, will help flush some of the copper out, but dosent do anything too fast...
after 5 or 6 changes, then i'd take a sample from the tank and have it tested again at the store for copper and see where that puts you.. if its better, then keep with it, and if its worse then you know that there is something else going on....
just my thoughts...
changing the water too much too fast can cause stress and shock and could cause more things to get sick if not die...
My personal suggestion, considering the situation that you are in, is that i would do 20% changes every other day for a week or so, testing all your levels on the "slow days"
that'll help bring up the trace levels, will help flush some of the copper out, but dosent do anything too fast...
after 5 or 6 changes, then i'd take a sample from the tank and have it tested again at the store for copper and see where that puts you.. if its better, then keep with it, and if its worse then you know that there is something else going on....
just my thoughts...
Sharkie
The Damsel Defender
I agree with project, maybe doing a small 20%-30% water change in a 3 day span is better than doing one big 50% and taking out too much of the crap the fish are used to
yote
In Memoriam
I gotta agree with Project.One your tank,a 50% water change is gonna be fairly expensive.
Once everything has settled down,drop back to weekly 20% water changes.
As the tank matures,there may come a point where you can back off to 20% every couple of weeks.But for now,stay with the weekly.
Once everything has settled down,drop back to weekly 20% water changes.
As the tank matures,there may come a point where you can back off to 20% every couple of weeks.But for now,stay with the weekly.
Bifferwine
I am a girl
Many fish stores (if not most) keep their fish in copper treated tanks prior to them being sold. The inverts are kept on a separate system, so the water they come in will not be copper contaminated.
If you were adding the water from the fish bags to your tank, that's most likely where your copper came from. You should never ever add the bag water to the tank. You should always remove the fish with a net and minimize any cross-contamination between tanks.
If you were adding the water from the fish bags to your tank, that's most likely where your copper came from. You should never ever add the bag water to the tank. You should always remove the fish with a net and minimize any cross-contamination between tanks.
daugherty
part time reefer
30 gal is only about 25% of my total water volume i figure i have about 105-110gal of water total
my tank is very new and I do a 18 gal water change every 3 to 4 days. If I notice my ammonia creeping up on me after I moved something or added a new buddy then I will up the water change to 36 gal then if my levels haven't fallen by the time I'm ready for another water change, like 3 days, I do another 36 until everything falls back in line. Then its back to 18. I have a 180 DT running on a 235 gallon total system. And it's all cramped into a 1 bedroom apartment
dcantucson
Reef pro
A one bedroom apartment. Now that's making good use of the space!
