How many pumps do I need?

[AngelLeah1981]

I purchased a 120 gallon tank and am wanting to purchase the pump and skimmer next. I want to do reef and fish with a sump that has macro algae and rock and maybe sand. I thought I had the pump figured out that I was going to get. ...around 1500 gph at 4 foot head height but then I saw where someone had said they had one pump hooked up for their return and ANOTHER ONE on the skimmer ! How many pumps do you have to have? I'm so confused. Please help. Also, I am very interested in getting a pump that uses low wattage and any suggestions would be fantastic. I have such a hard time googling it for some reason.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...m/PIC-0338.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...m/PIC-0337.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...m/PIC-0336.jpg

THERE ARE TWO overflows.

48X24X25 - From the top of the tank to the bottom of the stand is almost 54 inches.

Are powerheads pumps? Do I only need one pump, one skimmer, and either 2 powerheads or a wave2k, a heater or chiller and thats it? If I don't have money to blow is the wave2k a waste of money or will it make my fish and animals happier?? WAVE2K!
Leah

Oh, and the reason I mentioned the skimmer is because that is part of the confusion. Someone said they needed to know what kind of skimmer I am getting before they can tell me what kind of pump to get. ?

 

[Altohombre]

your pictures aren't working for me.

 

[Bifferwine]

Depends on what type of skimmer you get. Most come with a pump already and there's no need to buy a separate pump. Some require that you buy one.

 

[fatman]

You apparently bought an AGA "reef ready" tank, meaning it is alreay predrilled for two overflows and two pump return lines. If this is so I have set up many tanks of that description and could give you some suggestions, recommendations and share some experiences and found knowledge. As for whether or not you will need more than one pump, the answer is probably so. If your tank si as I suggested above you will not get enough circulation from a pump supplied only through the predrilled overflow holes provided for a healthy reef tank. You will either need to supplement your return line circulation with in tank gaudy power heads or make other plans and or preparations to increse your circulation rate. It is usually preferable to not have just one pump though. Just as it is best not to have just one heater, or one overflow, or one return line. Redundancy can save a lot of money in livestock and a lot of heartache. Most skimmers either come with a pump in a package deal or the manafacturers recommend a size or even specific type or brand of pump.

 

[AngelLeah1981]

You apparently bought an AGA "reef ready" tank, meaning it is alreay predrilled for two overflows and two pump return lines. If this is so I have set up many tanks of that description and could give you some suggestions, recommendations and share some experiences and found knowledge

THANK GOD !!! I found someone ! lol. Please fatman I need your help. Batman tune plays in background nununu nu FATMAN !!! lol :bowdown: I'm at your mercy. Please help ! lol

I'm pretty darn sure that's what the tank is. 2 internal overflows with 2 holes each. I don't know if you saw the pics or not because they messed up in a couple places so here they are again just in case. I hope they work this time. fingers crossed.

THIS LAST PIC IS HALF THE TANK. THERE ARE 2 OVERFLOWS.

I don't know if you want more info but if you do here it is:
Someone told me 1500 gph is too much and the water will move too fast in the sump. Is this true and if so how many gph do you suggest I get the return pump for? 120 gallon 30-40 gallon sump, macro algae, rock, maybe sand, 2 overflows with 2 holes each?
Here are the fish I'm really interested in: (stars for most interested)
*yellow faced jawfish
*seahorses
**ocellaris clownfish
blue jaw tilefish - (very active lives on bottom - so probably not with the seahorses, right?)
*blue powder tang
*blue tang (hippo)
other tangs,
racoon butterfly fish,
Angel Fish
I'm realize I can't have all these fish together. I have another tank.... a 75 gallon and am thinking of putting seahorses in it. I REALLY want **ocellaris clownfish, *yellow faced jawfish, *blue hipp tang, and **blue powder tang but there's a couple problems. I want sand and I was told the yellow faced jawfish needs rock to dig a hole/cave for itself and that's actually why I fell in love with it. Can I have rock just in one corner of the tank? Also, I LOOVE the ocellaris clownfish and the blue powder tang but I don't know if the BPT will be mean to the other fish and I want a peaceful tank. I understand I wouldn't be able to tackle the BPT until later but I'm trying to plan ahead. I have no idea what coral I want yet though, whether it be LPS or SPS? I haven't researched that much yet. I really hope this isn't a problem because I'm not really ready for this decision yet. Also, I am developing a real problem with wild caught fish because of some horror stories I've read recently. I hope I am at least going to be able to find the BPT tank bred as I know I can find the clowns. If anyone has any links for any of these fish tank bred PLEASE give me the link. lol :)

I'm leaning more towards an Octopus, ASM, or Tunze because of suggestions given to me. I am VERY MUCH interested in low wattage and cheaper skimmer filters. I want it to be cheaper in the longrun....and I don't know which skimmer will do these things for me.
I don't have any bulkheads yet...no plumbing....just tank with holes and 2 plastic parts (2 overflows)
I live all over. I will live in California when I set the tank up and then 3-5 years later in Tennessee I think. We've never lived in a a place colder than TN. We ALWAYS keep our house between 69-71 degrees no matter how big the power bill. LOL. ....usually 69-70 degrees in summer. 71 in winter.

I'm not sure how much live rock or sand.... probably 1.2 lbs per gallon (around 140-150 lbs) all live rock or 1/2 live rock and 1/2 dry rock. I'll probably add a piece or two a month until I eventually get more per gallon. I hope this is ok. That's almost $1,000 just for rock. sheesh. ... sand...probably dry arganite sand (I've heard buying live sand AND live rock is a waste of money and alot of people say it's a scam to buy live sand. shrugs shoulders.) I guess if I go with the yellow faced jaw fish I will do a deep sand bed and since I'm doing algae and rock in the sump I think most people would assume I'm doing a deep sand bed. I'm not sure about this yet. maybe 2-5 inches...big difference I know....any suggestions would be AWESOME.

 

[dustin_P74]

seahorses really shouldnt be kept in a tank with fish from what i have read. you can really only have one angel fish per tank and if you add live rock after the tank has established you need to make sure it is cured live rock. i bought my live rock un cured at liveaquaira.com for like $365 plus shipping for 90lbs. and im curing it in my tank while my tank cycles. another rule is that you should have 1 inch of the adult fish per five gallons of tank. in my 120 gallon i have a 1500gph with a 20 gallon sump and it seems to be doing fine. thats all i can think of for now. other people will chime in soon with more info

Aquarium Protein Skimmers: Coralife Super Skimmer Needle Wheel Protein Skimmer
that is the skimmer i have in sump

Fiji Live Rock: Select Premium Fiji Live Rock from Drs. Foster & Smith
that is the live rock i have in my tank. i got 90lbs plus second day shipping for about $365 but if your in california it should be much cheaper for shipping. but remember that rock is UN-CURED and any live rock you purchase of the internet before being put into an established tank should be cured or re-cured in a QT

 

[AngelLeah1981]

I'm leaning more towards an Octopus, ASM, or Tunze because of suggestions given to me. I am VERY MUCH interested in low wattage and cheaper skimmer filters. I want it to be cheaper in the longrun....and I don't know which skimmer will do these things for me.

....forgot to mention the magdrive.

Oh wow. Thanks for those links. I love links. lol. Do you have anything else on the inside of the tank for flow? powerheads or external pump(s)? What do you plan to put in there? Thanks for reminding me about the rock. I had forgotten.

 

[dustin_P74]

i have a wet dry filter with bioballs and then i have the skimmer sitting in the water that comes out of the bioballs that filters it and then it flows to the pump that pumps it back into the tank

 

[fatman]

:bounce:
Starting at the beginning. That is an AGA 120 gallon “Reef Ready” tank with two back wall overflow towers. The holes are for 1 inch and ¾ inch bulkheads. Pump size: a pumps size is generally governed by several things, gallonage of water that must be returned to tank, the size and type of piping used from pump to tank, number and types of valves and fittings used in return plumbing lines and if the water is also pumped through filters, chillers or other accessories. It is doubtful as a newcomer to reefing that you will be doing anything else with your water but draining to a sump skimming it and pumping it back to tank, at least nothing that would affect the size pump needed. Forget the manufacturers claim that the overflows are rated at 600 gph each. You will not obtain that amount of flow through your overflows if installed in a conventional manner. A fair estimate would be around 800 gph. If your sump will be right under your tank then you will need to have a pump that will pump against approximately 5 foot of static head pressure (meaning the pump will be 5 ft below the height the water needs to be pumped) plus the equivalent head pressure caused by friction, restrictions and constrictions caused by pipe, valves and fittings. I will give you a calculated flow estimate based on a 3/4 inch pump return line split into two ¾ inch return lines with two unions, one T fitting, two ball valves and six 90 degree fitting all in PVC plastic. With a Mag 18 pump you would get 855 gph out of the pump with about 3.5 to 4 ft/sec velocity. Do I consider that pump your best option. No, it is just an example of what you would get from a submersible pump using around 145 watts. A more efficient pump could be had using an external pump but that would require drilling at least one hole in your sump tank. I would recommend that you have your sump drilled and go with a Pan World 100PX-X pump which would supply a 920 gph volume and a little more velocity while using about 15% less electricity. This would also allow you to use vinyl tubing for most of your return lines and still pump all your overflows capacity. I would still use PVC fittings for entry into your pump as well as the return exit and use enough PVC pipe to use PVC unions and ball valves with out the constrictive barb fittings used with vinyl tubing. A coralife skimmer is a good cheap skimmer. Its capacity is a little over rated so you would possibly have to run two of them if you run as heavy a load as you seem to indicate you might. In steps over that I would consider next the Octopus, then the Turboflotor. Above that you’re talking a completely different price range mainly due to better materials used in construction. I use a lot of Turboflotors and have no complaints with them other than their directions are very limited. It is a German product and they either translated poorly or incompletely. In Germany it is sold as a Berlin TurboFlotor. I prefer the turboflotor pump to the Octopus pump and consider both the Octopus and Turboflotor better built but their prices are to high in comparison to the Coral life. The performance is about the same for all three. Performance wise, I would compare the 220-gallon Coralife to the Turboflotor 1000. Woulde I recommend further circulation? Yes, however I have not used enough of the newer power heads to judge them other than to say I would not consider a power head cheaper than a Hydor Koralia, and with your tank and the rate of return from your sump and probable high stocking rate I would consider no less than two Koralia 3’s. One for each end of the tank. :^: I believe in buying the best live rock you can afford and just as much live sans as you need to innoculate your new sand bed well. I would suggest that you use part live base rock and part good liverock. At least 25 percent good rock as the other life forms and coraline algae you receive with them will make your tank healtier and more visually pleasing quicker. My favorite live rock is at Tampabaysaltwater.com however it is definitely more expensive than Drs. Foster and Smith, which is good but no where near as good. 10 pounds of live sand is more than adeuate to import a lot of lifeforms to a newly developing sand bed of 150 to 200 pounds or even more. I use 300 to 350 pounds of Oollitic sand in my 120 gallon SPS tank and the other ones I set up. Three hundred pounds of new sand and 20 t0 50 pounds of live sand from two to five different sources when possible. I usually do not add all the live sand at one time but over a period of the first year, but I always put at least 10 pounds of live sand in initailly spread out on top of the new sand.

 

[fatman]

i have a wet dry filter with bioballs and then i have the skimmer sitting in the water that comes out of the bioballs that filters it and then it flows to the pump that pumps it back into the tank

Your skimmer should get raw water, meaning the water should go through the skimmer first. A skimmer actually removes organics from the water. Bio balls are part of a bacteriological system which just changes the organic substances from ammonia to nitrites then nitrates it does not remove anything. Bio balls also accumulate a coating of dissolved organics which slough off intermediately causing high nitrate swings, meaning big jumps almost instantly rather than over a period of days or weeks whereby regular water changes can keep nitrate levels acceptable. With bio balls nitrate checks should be done as often as every other day unless the balls are cleaned regularly on a rotational basis. Meaning some should be removed at least weekly and cleaned then placed back into filter. A week later part of the bio balls not washed the week before should be washed. Just like all mechanical filter media should be regularly cleaned or replaced. The coating of dissolved organic matter on Bio Balls means they have to be considered both as mechanical and bio filter media in a sense. :bounce:

 

[Bifferwine]

Skip the seahorses unless they have their own tank. Seahorses do not do well in community tanks with other fish. Not only are they not compatible with other fish, but they have different feeding needs, different temperature needs and different flow needs. You'll have to pick one or the other -- a reef tank or a seahorse tank.

Also keep in mind that butterflyfish and angelfish are not reef safe. I know of no butterflyfish that can be kept in a reef tank. There are some angels that are reef safeish and can do well in reef tanks if they are kept well fed. But that's no guarantee that they won't eat your corals.

The jawfish will do just fine with sand.

 

[dustin_P74]

so if you get an angel you shouldnt put it in a tank that has corals?

 

[Bifferwine]

Most angels will eat corals. That's why they're not considered reef safe. There are a few that won't always eat corals, but even with those it's a 50/50 chance. No angels are 100% safe around corals.

 

[fatman]

At most the Jaw fish just need a few rocks or shells to line the ledges of there pits or holes, otherwise the sand is fine , but there will be times of cloudiness when they decide to rerrange their swqand pits. Biffer is right about the sea horses, about the only thing I have seen successfully kept with sea horses is file fish. About the only butterfly fish I would keep in a reef is a Copper Band Butterfly fish and that would only be on a temporary short term basis to clean out an infestation of apitasia (glass anemones) as a Copperband seems to do better than I do at eliminating them.

 

[AngelLeah1981]

My goodness what FANTASTIC detailed info. THANK YOU SO MUCH !!!!!
Why do you suggest to get the most expensive best rock I can afford? It's not all the same?

With bio balls nitrate checks should be done as often as every other day unless the balls are cleaned regularly on a rotational basis. Meaning some should be removed at least weekly and cleaned then placed back into filter. A week later part of the bio balls not washed the week before should be washed. Just like all mechanical filter media should be regularly cleaned or replaced.

Is it true I can just use the rock for filtration or do I need an actual filtration system besides the skimmer? (and later on macro algae)

So in a 120 gallon system with normal to deep sand bed how many rocks would you put in the tank and in what fashion? ...just get a handful and lay them in a one spot? ....two spots if you get two yellow faced jawfish?
When you say you would only keep the Copper Band Butterfly fish temporarily - what would you do with it then? lol. Are they reef safe? I guess not.

Is there anything extra you can do to prevent apitasia? I googled it - hadn't heard of it before.

Thanks so much you guys !!!!

 

[RyanG]

If you get a copperband for apitasia after the problem is cured either take it back to the LFS for store credit or find a local reefer and rent him/her out. Your live rock will be the basis for biologic filtration, your skimmer will the the base of mechanical filtration. You could get a canister filter for running chemicals but it isnt needed per say. Definately not needed in the beginning.

 

[fatman]

Live rock varies immensely in that with good rock you also get some life forms on and or with your rock. It is taken for granted that live rock is aragonite or calcium carbonate based. Meaning it is old coral skeletons over grown with coraline algae as a cementing agent. It is also taken for granted that it will have colorful coraline algae growing on its surface. However, to be live rock the only requirement is that it is marine environment safe rock covered with and or infused with certain bacteria that can bring about nitrification, meaning to turn organic waste into ammonia, then ammonia into nitrite, then finally nitrite into to nitrate. Live rock should however be pourous, and preferably have a low density, as the good less dense rock also contains deep within it, where there is almost no oxygen, denitrifing bacteria that turns nitrate into nitrous gas. As you get into better live rock you start getting colorful coraline algaes, and with even better live rock , you usually get what is referred to as hitch hikers. These run a broad range, but can include small corals, polyps, anemones, starfish, crabs, snails, sponges, worms, tube worms, macro algae and as some would say, a diverse microfauna. For really exciting looking live rock check out this site http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com

 

[yote]

In a new tank,Skip the copperband altogether.They are a difficult fish to keep.
IMO,They are a lot like a cross between mandrine dragonettes and anemones.They need mature stable tanks with a lot of live rock.They actively feed on the pods and SMALL apitasia anemones.

 

[fatman]

I cheat, I maintain some reef tanks so I just make the rotation of the Copperband part of the maintenance plan on the tanks. I have had customers ask why, but have never had a customer suggest saying no as an option. I have had customers tht did not want me to remove the Copperband. I have been lucky in getting quite a few Copperbands over the years that would eat a variety of frozen foods. I think they are a handsome fish. I have had several though that went straight for the coral polyps as soon as they were put into a tank.

 

[AngelLeah1981]

So when I am looking to buy rock how do I know if I'm getting the good, low density and porous kind? What do I look for? FatMan, the website you gave me with the rock is the "good" kind?
Thanks.