@%$#.....Ick in DT!!

OhNoNemo

i love triggers
First off, Hi guys,its been awhile.I'm not a huge computer/forum guy,so i don't post too often,but i do appreciate all the help and info i get here:Cheers: Well ,i am very careful and know the whole process of QTing.The wife however(love her too death), not so much.She got me my christmas gift,an Annularis(she knew i wanted one),it did not come from my regular guy,she wanted it to be a surprise(oh,it was).Long story short,i come home ,new fish in DT.Things were OK for a week or so,then it starts:frustrat:.
Here comes the questions......
I want to FW dip all my fish,knowing i can not put them back into DT for up to 8 weeks,what do i do?I thought about hypo,but won't that kill my LR and all other beneficial bacteria?I only have a 29 QT.I do however have an empty 75 in basement.Do you think i could set this up,using only the filter and LR from my QT tank ,and be able to keep all the fish in there till ICK dies off in DT.Would there be a cycle to worry about?Thanks guys,......and gals:D
 
How many fish have the ich? I got a bout of that on my Tang and he fully recovered with my garlic and vitamin c treatments.
 
Only my tang and humu,but once ick is introduced to your tank, it will always be there,unless you take actions to kill it off.I just don't know how to do this effectively in my DT.
 
If you start up that 75, you shouldnt have a cycle. That would be a viable option, but as stated, you might try garlic and vitamin C and see how that goes before you take drastic measures, also, go easy on the wifey I bet she feels pretty bad about this whole thing :)
 
Oh,i do not BLAME her at all,but the other LFS that sold it to her.Like i said i have my own, trusted LFS guy,that she did not really know of(till now:D)
Isn't garlic and C just a cover -up, feel good option?Won't the ICK still be in there?I don't doubt that it'll make our fish feel and look better,but it does nothing to kill the ICK,right?Thanks for the help also:Cheers:
 
There is no effective way to treat ich in your DT. You are correct in saying "once ick is introduced to your tank, it will always be there,unless you take actions to kill it off". You need to do hypo or copper treatments in a QT. If you have a HOB filter you can put some pieces of live rock rubble in it, use the 29 for a QT and do hypo. If you decide to use copper, you can't have any live rock or sand in the QT because they will absorb the copper. If you have any filter material or sponges in your sump/filter now you can use those in the HOB to avoid a cycle.
 
Do you not think a 5-6, min. FW dip would kill the ick on the fish?Then i would put them in my newly set-up 75 with an HOB and LR from my QT into the ICK free 75 for 8 weeks.I guess my questions are:
1.Do you think a FW dip would kill the ick on the fish?
2.Do you think the fish would be fine in my 75 for weeks(with no cycle occuring)?
3.Is 8 weeks long enough to kill off the ick in the DT with not having anything to host?
Thanks a ton guys....
 
1- A FW drip will not remove all the parasites. It may kill some that are not dug deep into their skin or in the gills, but it won't kill the parasites that are buried deep. The white spots you see are a protective "bubble" protecting the actual parasite which is feeding on the fish. A FW drip will "break the bubble" on some of them, but not all.

2- Yes - with some type of established filtration

3- Yes

Good Luck!
 
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I think you're gonna stress both those fish to death with the fresh water dip, then off to a qt tank for 8 weeks. I cleared my ich with garlis and c in about 4 days and it's been gone since, no rebouts at all. It's way cheaper, faster, easier, and no stress on the fish. Just my experience. I tried the QT thing and the fresh water dip on sone of my fish months ago and they died, I think from the stress. Are the fish still eating? Soak thier food in garlic oil and a few drops of vitamin c and see if they improve while you get your other tank set up. I'll bet they are better before you have the tank ready.
 
Yes,i did consider the stress factor.Yes,they all eat and swim and play just like always.I just can't get past the fact that my DT now has ick and always will unless i do something about it.Does this not bother you?
ccCapt ,thank you for the input also.
What are your thoughts on what SeaBee is saying??
 
I had to remove all of my fish from my DT and put them in my QT. I left my DT without fish for 2.5 months to make sure the ick life cycle was over with. Then after my fish were free of ich for a few months, I put them back in one at a time to make sure I did not over load the system all at once. Been ick free for about six months now. (I feel like I am in a AA meeting lol).
 
How did you treat in your QT?
Thanks everyone for the input ,this is a great site with fast replies,i may have to start visiting more often:D
 
Rather than give my opinion, I'll throw out this 2 part article.
Part 1
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
Part 2
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
"Fish can develop immunity to Cryptocaryon irritans that can last for up to six months (Colorni, 1987 and Colorni & Burgess, 1997). It is this natural immunity that makes evaluating the effectiveness of various treatment options so difficult. How can someone ever be certain that what they dosed to their tank or fed to their fish is what caused the cure they observed? The answer is simple, they can't. Until there are controlled, scientific studies, preferably repeated a few times, we cannot be sure that any of the newer homeopathic or "reef-safe" treatments actually work.

This limited immunity is also the basis for some aquarists advocating that if a fish gets sick, to just maintain pristine water quality, feed a superb diet, and to allow the fish's own immune system to do the job. While it is possible that this could work, natural immunity is not totally foolproof. In the studies cited above, some of the fish were not completely protected by their own natural immunity. It is possible that immunity could protect the fish from massive infestation, but still allow small numbers of parasites to remain and reproduce undetected by the aquarist. This is where the 'Ich is always present' argument comes into play and why sometimes an aquarist has recurring difficulties with this pathogen. It is possible, in some cases, that the treatment was cut short or misapplied or for some other reason not totally effective, but that immunity helped to partially ward off the infection. In this situation, a low-level infestation, held in check by natural immunity but not totally eradicated, could continue to survive but be misdiagnosed, or missed all together, by the hobbyist. The parasites could progress through their lifecycle by predominately attacking the gill tissue, where they could go unseen. Or, the number of parasites could be so low and their appearance (and disappearance) be erratic enough that the aquarist does not pick up on the infection or attributes the occasional white spot to a speck of sand or air bubble because the fish are behaving normally otherwise. That is until some other minor mishap occurs or the immunity wears off and the balance shifts in favor of the infestation, resulting in a full-blown infestation once again.

I want to be clear on this point. I do not believe Cryptocaryon irritans is always present in our systems. With a strict quarantine protocol, it is possible keep an Ich-free aquarium. I just believe that there have been enough hobbyists who have misused a treatment or utilized an ineffective treatment option, such that they never really fully conquered their initial infestation. Their continuing problems over the course of many months, and the posting of those experiences, seem to be enough to promote this aquarium myth. Cryptocaryon irritans can be eradicated from an infected system with a proven treatment and can be kept out of the system if good quarantine practices are employed.

Most of the hobbyists who consider letting their fish fight off the infection on their own are hopeful that it will work because they find the challenge of removing all the fish and allowing the aquarium to go fallow (without any fish hosts), very daunting. If you are considering natural immunity as a treatment option, ask yourself a few simple questions.
•How big is the tank?
•How difficult would it really be to tear the display apart to capture and remove all of the fishes to a separate hospital/quarantine tank for treatment?
•How much is it going to cost to replace all of the fishes in the event of a catastrophic loss?
•What kind of moral and ethical responsibilities do you have for the pets that you purchased?
•And lastly, what in the world were you doing adding anything that had not been quarantined into your aquarium in the first place?

I cannot answer these questions for you, but it is my opinion that it is inappropriate to do nothing. I would hope for acquired or innate natural immunity to kick in when used with other less aggressive but pro-active treatments, such as using biological cleaners, medicated foods, UV, ozone, and garlic. Although I clearly don't believe this shotgun approach of unproven treatments is the most effective option available. For me, if you gamble with un-quarantined items and infect your tank, it is best to bite the bullet, remove all the fishes to a separate quarantine aquarium, fallow the tank, and use a proven treatment."
 
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I've used both copper and hypo successfully.
Copper might be easier since you keep your salinity the same, but you can't use live rock or sand for filttration and you must test every few days to make sure your are at a theraputic level. You must use a sponge or filter material in a HOB filter (or canister) for filtration.
Hypo takes a little more work and longer to totally cure. You must have a refractometer and drop salinity to 1.009. A hydrometer is not accurate enough. You can also use live rock for filtration, but any critters living in the rock will not survive the hypo.
 
I flipped out to, I lost about 6 nice fish to ich the first round, it bothered me a lot. I tried a qt tank, dip, copper, they still died. Then I got a Hippo Tang for cheap and brought him home, got the ich in a day, I think he came with it. So that time I went all natural with the garlic and c vitamin. Within 2 days it was way better, after 5 days it was gone. It might still be in my tank, but only weak, stressed fish get it, so keeping their immune system up seems to do it. I just don't like all that fresh water dip, then into a qt tank for 8 weeks, and copper treatments. It's a personal thing. Good luck with whatever you decide, but you can give them garlic while you're deciding.....I just soaked my veggies with 4 drops of garlic to feed the Tang, he would never eat veggies, but now he gets them and eats them, he wouldnt eat them without the garlic. Now he tears at them on the clip. Once again, good luck.
 
Thank you all:bowdown:, I almost have too much info to know what to do with, now!:DI do think i'm gonna go the copper and QTing in the 75 route.I have to get it out of my DT,or any new additions QTed or not are going to be subjected to it.Seabee, i do thank you for your input and opinions and hope you never have to battle it again,but for me,knowing it is gone, is icing on the cake:D ccCapt or anyone else, is Kordons malachite green a good treatment ?....I will keep everyone posted
 
SeaBee, I did the same as you. Mine wasn't bad, I didn't lose any fish. I brought a Tang home and he brought ich to his home. It was gone in a few days with the garlic and vitamin. That was a while back, never came back. At least for now. And I have put more fish in there since than with no problems. Good luck Nemo !!!! Keep us informed...
 
Most people don't bother treating ich. It's always in our tanks, but it doesn't always affect the fish. Usually, fish are only affected by it when they're stressed -- like when a new fish is added or if water quality worsens.

I have fish that show spots occaionally, but I feed them garlic extract and vitamins and it goes away in a day or two. The only time they get recurrences is when there's a new addition.

I think that quarantining and treating it is more stressful than just letting them live with it. Fish can be perfectly happy and healthy in a tank that has ich -- as long as they are not showing symptoms of it, they will be fine.

Most fish are able to fight it off by themselves once the stressors are minimized.

So the answer to your question is yes, it's in my tank, and no I don't worry about it because my fish are healthy enough to not be impacted by it.
 
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