If I were to suggest...

F

fc_uk

Reefing newb
If I were to suggest that, all things being equal, nitrates and alkalinity were inversely proportionate would I get:

A. Run you fool! (no support for this claim)
B. You shall not pass! (yea! death to all balrog; this is a supported theory)

This meaning, assuming everything is constant, if I find a way to dose my tank with nitrates, then my alkalinity will drop. Conversely, all things being equal, if I dose bicarbonate and alkalinity raises, then nitrates must have lowered or remained constant.
 
I dose KH and Ca and it does not effect my NO3.....
But Ca and KH do effect each other... as binders..

Bicarb effects Ph....

I can't see a triad there... other than in a distant polymorphic relationship

or in the since that everything effects everything to some extent in pure science
 
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None really.

Though through the chemistry I can get an organic acid to donate a proton to bicarbonate, which will convert it to carbonic acid.

Nitrates make for great simple organic acids.

I've not read anything that does directly say the two are in any way related, yet I have a hard time seeing how they can not be.

Actual evidence? I have to dose for alkalinity on a daily basis in my 75 g tank or it drops. And I am not talking about a small dose either; 35 mL.

I can't think of anything else that could consume the bicarb that fast.

The evidence of a nitrate problem is, well, my sand bed and the fact that it is covered with algae. I setup a gfo reactor, which took it away for a few weeks. Now it is back and I changed the media as soon as I saw the algae come back.

With the size of an algae kill that I initially had I was doing 10% daily water changes.

Only thing I can think of is the nitrates are still high and the new algae growth is feeding off that.
 
You need to add PO4 into your thinking... and way too much light and food protein ...???

You could have something, say bad rock, that grabs KH.. or lots of Ca.


EDIT: have you tested for Ca..? it would account for that.
 
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Agreed, but the gfo reactor should be removing the phosphates ... hence the neglect.

The fact that the gfo did effectively take away the algae on round one was my assumption that I could neglect it as the reactor is doing it's job. Maybe not...
 
fc_uk said:
Agreed, but the gfo reactor should be removing the phosphates ... hence the neglect.

The fact that the gfo did effectively take away the algae on round one was my assumption that I could neglect it as the reactor is doing it's job. Maybe not...
Click to expand...

please reload to get my edit above.
 
Yes, I am testing for Ca, which I also need to dose, though not nearly has heavily.

Between the corals and the gfo, I was assuming a slight Ca drop that would require semi-frequent dosing was normal.

Again, maybe not?
 
my thinking is that something is dosing your tank with Ca and it is binding with the KH, so you dose KH to bring it up and that something is still dosing the Ca.. and you have this crazy cycle. Rock comes to mind.

I mention the tap water because I think the algae is a PO4 and light thing. and is related to the GFO but not necessarily directly with the KH.
 
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I hear ya.

I'm scratching my head too.

It's all live rock from a lfs.

I'm using ro/di water for both the initial fill and water changes. Ro/di water tests at 0 tds. It's high for phosphates, hence the gfo; has always been high for phosphates. Ca tests near to 0; maybe 5-10 ppm. Nothing massive.

Algae can be both nitrate and phosphate; but I was under the impression more po4 than nitrate.
 
I agree and am bit out of my league here.. but.. now wonder if your testing kit is telling you stories. ... if your Ca is near ▲0 and and your KH is still falling... something is missing.
 
How old is the tank and how long has this thing been happening?

... and what happened to that large mass of algae the died off?
 
Apologies for the quick post; I am about to head out for work.

My Ca is not testing at zero. If I gave that impression last night I am sorry.

As of last night, my Ca tested at 380 ppm. Generally, it is 400-420 ppm, but being gone for a week without being able to dose caused it to slip a little lower.

My KH generally runs around 10 dkh. However, again, with being gone, last night I was sitting at 8.5. As I mentioned, if I do not dose daily for alkalinity, it will drop unless it is on the days that I do a water change.

As for dead algae. I got what I could by hand before it started to die. The rest I was hoping to get with the water changes. Once I noticed the algae starting to die off, it was 10% water changes daily until it was gone (only about 5 days); again during this time I was removing what I could manually as well. The rest that was missed, I was hoping the skimmer would pickup.

The tank is a little over 6+ months old. I have been suffering from red slime ever since the tank cycled and got over it's diatom outbreak.

After the red slime was killed off, I started to see a little green/red bubble algae and some gha. I manually remove what I can of both, which are both very little.

Now the red slime is coming back... which is where I am at a loss. I feel it must be tied to the alkalinity because I've never had alk problems until now.

I did a literature search last night. There are scholarly papers out there that make an attempt at stating alk and nitrates are inversely proportionate in environmental papers pertaining to the ocean. Not sure how valid these are. They all seem to be coming out of a research group from Japan...

EDIT:

And thank you both for your help; it is appreciated!
 
Can you provide (1) a list of all of your corals, and (2) a list of what you feed, how often, and how much each time? Also, have you tested your mixed up salt right out of the bucket before you add it to the tank? If so, what is your alk, calc, mag, nitrate, phosphate, and salinity?
 
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Of course.

Corals: mushroom, torch, frog spawn, xenia, worm brain coral, favite brain coral.

Currently, corals are not being fed as I want to reduce my nitrate/phosphate load. Fish are being fed only what they will eat of New Life Spectrum Marine formula pellets. Seriously, only one to two pieces will ever go uneaten. Fish are one clown and one damsel by the way.

I've tested parts of the salt mix right out of the bucket, though I did not write the numbers down (I have an alright memory for this sort of thing):

Alk: about 11 dKH
Ca: 420 ppm
Mag: 1300 ppm
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: n/a
Salinity: well, I always mix to about 1026 sg.

I have tested phosphates out of the tap ... scary. about 30 ppm. Phosphates out of the RO/DI since day one have been 1-5 ppm. Hence, the need to run gfo non-stop.
 
Ran a phosphate test on the aquarium water in the tank. I eyeball it at about 0.06 ppm. It somewhere between 0.04 and 0.08 for sure, but I am between those two colors. If anything, I would lean closer to 0.04 ppm.

Bah to me for taking a sick day and not being able to test it at work.

That means of viable food sources, nitrates in the only one left.

My damn test still tells me nitrates are 0, but I'm calling foul because all other tests have been confirmed my USP testing. Damn kit must be wacko.

Other stuff:

pH = 8.0
nitrites = 0 ppm

So what, skimmer?
 
Your alk definitely shouldn't be dropping that quickly with the corals you have - you just don't have enough stony corals to eat it up that much. Did you get a new bucket of salt recently? If so, test your new salt out of the bucket - alk levels have changed on a few salts recently. Do you run a skimmer? If not, then yes definitely get a skimmer!
 
S K I M M E R, yes!!!!.... In My Opinion!

But... it still is a mystery. I say skimmer because to me the best answer to a natural balance (that IS the goal) is live rock, refugium, and a skimmer... again, in my opinion.

Now if I can figure out how to have a tidal basin where it is wet and then drained in time with the tides..... I know how.. just is it worth it?
 
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