Jimboaf
We can build it
Just wondering if anyone has used mollies to start the cycle in there reef tank, and would it be a good idea? :question:
Mollies
- Thread starter Jimboaf
- Start date
wontonflip
I failed Kobayashi Maru
You really shouldn't use live fish to cycle a tank. All you need is a piece of shrimp. In fact, I cycled my 125g w/ just a cube of mysis. And I used dry sand and no live rocks. It cycled just as fast, and I didn't harm any live things.
Waddi
Shenanigans?
+1 Wonton.
Cycling with a fish is very cruel. A cube of mysis/brine or some table shrimp will do exactly the same thing, with just of good of a result.
Cycling with a fish is very cruel. A cube of mysis/brine or some table shrimp will do exactly the same thing, with just of good of a result.
Bifferwine
I am a girl
I agree with everyone else. It's cheaper and easier to cycle by throwing some fish food in there or using a raw shrimp from the grocery store.
Northstar24
The Tang Herder
No, because as others have said, its cruel to the fish and completely unneccesary. Besides that, while mollies are capable of tolerating full salt, its really detrimental to them
Ted
Living one day at a time
Back in the dark ages I did was in 92 however as all have pointed out I would not do this now.
FishWrangler
Reefing newb
Just put in live rock. Rotting food or shrimp can allow unwanted bacteria to start to grow as well as beneficial bacteria. Better just to put some live rock in there and let it happen naturally.
little_fish
Moderator
That isn't true, live rock can have unwanted bacteria as well, and it's the die off from stuff living on the live rock that causes the cycle - just like putting in a piece of shrimp
ErinCahir
Sausage Wrangler
+1 little_fish
FishWrangler
Reefing newb
Actually it is. What I guess I should have clarified is I meant CURED live rock. Start a tank with CURED live rock and some live sand from another system. You eliminate all die-off and the system will not even cycle though the ammonia stage. Maybe you will have a few nitrites but that is it. Why even add uncured live rock? Cure it in a tub for awhile before setting up your system. Unless you want to clean your tank for a month and siphon out all the dead crap everyday and risk unwanted other critters as well. I apologize for the snarky tone of this reply but the method of cycling you described is not the best way to start a system. Better safe than sorry and setting up a system with something rotting is not the best way to do it. It you want I can get really technical with the types of bacteria that can be introduced but it would be a very long winded and boring post. Trust me on this, a BA in zoology and 20 years experience with marine inverts and fish, I have been around the block a few times.
ErinCahir
Sausage Wrangler
The majority of us here have cycled our tanks by either ghost feeding or table shrimp.
FishWrangler
Reefing newb
right and i am telling you that is not the safest way to start a system, sure it may work just fine 99% of the time but why even take that risk?
ErinCahir
Sausage Wrangler
There's plenty of stuff that works fine "99%" of the time.
It's better than cycling with live fish, and it's a surefire to know you've cycled before you throw livestock in your tank.
I've had no problems starting any of my systems with the method we recommend here, and as far as I know, no one else has either.
It's better than cycling with live fish, and it's a surefire to know you've cycled before you throw livestock in your tank.
I've had no problems starting any of my systems with the method we recommend here, and as far as I know, no one else has either.
FishWrangler
Reefing newb
Wow, I guess that trying to give someone advice on forums is a no-no. There is nothing in my statement that is "not true." I don't understand why you guys decided that my method was "wrong" and you are right. Sorry but starting a system with cured rock is the best way to start a system. Sure you can do it many ways but that is the proven best way to do it and has been for a long time. And you want to tell me that you don't know of any problems it has caused? How can you prove that? What method do you have to know where the bacteria infections from a fish come from? Some of these types of bacteria are the ones created by rotting crap in your aquarium and the fish get injured and bam! bacteria infection. I was hoping to find a forum with insightful people interested in the aquarium hobby but I guess I have found a group of arrogant amateurs that think they know it all because they have had a couple of salt water tanks. Sorry but that was quite a rude reply and maybe a little more thought and tact next time will go a long way. Good luck I guess I will look elsewhere for insightful people who want to have a discussion, and not just write off anyone with any other opinion.
ErinCahir
Sausage Wrangler
I never once said you were wrong. I was telling you what most of us HERE have used to cycle our tanks with. I also said "that I know of"... I didn't say I knew anything beyond a doubt. Because I don't.
This is an amateur site. We exist to help people who are brand new to the hobby set up their tanks in a way that everything they home will be happy and healthy for their natural life. Along this line, we deal with people who don't know what they are talking about for the most part, and lack the lingo and know-how to fully explain to us what their problems/questions are (and I am not knocking this, everyone was new at one point). A lot of people can't tell the difference between cured live rock, uncured live rock and dead rock. A store could sell ANYTHING as cured live rock, you don't know that it's cured until you add fish to your tank and a cycle either does or doesn't happen. The method that we recommend here is a fail safe.
I apologize if I came off as rude, we would be more than happy to have you stick around. But you also need to be open to the fact that not everyone does things the same way.
Ted
Living one day at a time
Hmm I dont think she was saying that you where wrong. I have cycled tanks in some pretty shitty ways in the 20 years I have kept fish. I just didnt know better. To be honest I never really though of the complications of using a raw shrimp. Personally I have never gone that way because...well I dunno after I had live rock I just moved live rock to the new system. Seemed easier. New people it seems get advice from some less then reputable shops to just throw everything together and cross your fingers. Or almost as bad just throw a few mollies in there. given the first two methods I would say a shrimp is much preferred.
Amba
Ol' Salty
I suggest you take a look at our, "Tank Showcase" portion of the forum, and look at some of the members tanks. Surely we are not all professionals here, but there are quite a few on here that have really incredible stuff, and have taught me most of the things, if not all, that I know about keeping a saltwater tank the proper way.
In regards to your education, many of us on here are educated. Without naming names, I know of at least two people here who have masters and higher education, and we even have members here that are in Vet school. Several of us work, or have worked in a pet store. Myself, I attend Binghamton University as a biochemistry major. Does that mean I am an expert on responsible reef keeping? No. Please do not use your degree as a substitute for the hard research and experience that our members have. Nobody knows everything, which is really the point of the forum, to share ideas and learn from each other.
Plus, Erin knows her stuff, you should take a look at her Tank Build, it's awesome.
Good luck on your endeavors.
Jimboaf
We can build it
When I posted this I ment to say I water to put mollies in the tank after it cycled to make sure that all my parameters were good for fish. I was planning on getting a Mollie for a month than taking them out and putting them in my sisters tank. I figured that I would want to try to put a fish in there that is not too expensive first so I would not kill it.
Bifferwine
I am a girl
LOL. Why are we running down resumes here? There are plenty of people in this hobby with amazing tanks that have no degree at all or unrelated degrees to science. For what it's worth, I have a bachelor of science in biology, a master of science in biology, a master of science in soil, water and environmental science and am currently almost done with my masters in business administration. So "trust me on this." :rofl:
Does any of that make me a good reefer? Absolutely not. None of that allows me to keep an awesome aquarium. Sure, some of the background knowledge helps. This is what makes a good reefer: Practice and experience. Trial and error. And research, research, research. Not formal schooling. Many people on this site have incredible tanks and give great advice without any formal education related to marine biology. Don't discount someone else's advice based on what they do for a living or if they went to school.
That said, all you need to cycle a tank is ammonia. That's it. There are so many sources of ammonia. Cured rock, uncured rock, live fish, raw shrimp, fish food, pure liquid ammonia. Hell, some people have peed in their tank to start the cycle.
All those methods work, but some work better than others, and some are easier than others, and some are cheaper than others. I would never recommend cycling with live fish because there are so many other methods to cycle a tank that don't put livestock at risk.
As for introducing diseases by using uncured rock, most diseases and parasites require a fish host. If you are cycling a tank without fish, it doesn't matter if the rocks are cured or uncured. There are no fish to carry or transmit the disease. And if a disease or parasite does not require a fish host, then it's going to survive on the rocks regardless of whether they have been cured or not.
And your assertion that using cured rocks reduces the risk of bad hitch hikers and other pests, that's not true either. Pests can live on and be introduced to a tank via any piece of rock. It doesn't matter if the rock has been cured or not.
Using cured rocks does not eliminate the risk of an ammonia spike or cycle. Sometimes simply transporting rocks across town is enough to start a cycle. You can try to keep them wet -- transport them in buckets, keep them wrapped in wet newspaper, etc. But there is never a guarantee of skipping a cycle. Simply re-arranging a couple rocks in your tank can kick off a cycle. People should always err on the side of caution and assume their tank can cycle whenever they have made any changes to the rocks or substrate. Even if you are using cured live rock, test for ammonia and nitrites, make sure they are at zero, and add a pinch of food to see if something spikes, just to increase the odds that everything will be okay when you do add a fish.
No matter what, you should not be cycling a tank with any livestock in it. So whether you use cured or uncured rock, it doesn't matter. You shouldn't be adding livestock until the cycle is over and the uncured rocks are then considered cured. One method takes longer than the other and smells worse than the other. But is cheaper. So one method may not work for everyone. Either method is fine, though.
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little_fish
Moderator
There is also a rather major flaw in your statement about fully curing the rocks in another tub and them moving them into an aquarium. If you get so much bad bacteria when things die off, during the curing process in another tub, where does the bad bacteria go when you move the rock to the desired location?
