My first problems

qxcontinuum

qxcontinuum

Reefing newb
Ok so here it goes;
My tank two months old. Marine 90 gallons.

I've been previously using only Tap Water (no Ro /DI). Everything was well and i had no problems of any kind with some soft corals, anemone coral, and anemone, or sea urchins or algaes.
Here is what just happened;
Few days ago i've decided to start using only Distilated Water.

In two days i have added 15 gallons of distilated water to my tank. Yesterday after the last 5 gallons i've realized something's wrong. There was a huge bloom of brown algaes, My anemone has pulled insight all tentacles, my disk corals are contracted, one of my sea urchin doesn't use its tenticles and refuse to climb on any rocks.
Two days ago i ve been doing all required measurements of water qulity and no problems found. However yesterday i have seen the horor that the level of phosphates was 0.6.

I wonder now what have caused this phosphates spike? Ammonia, Nitrates, calcim, PH is ok and stable. Before doing these measurements i tok out some rocks with algaes and brushed off all algaes under fresh water. (i've inspected before if there's any creatures insight. Could be this the problem. Since a week my sea urchin has a tendince to climb up to tha top of the water (is is relevance)

Yesterday night after performing the tests, i've replaced 20% of the tank water with Tap Water. But here is the kick, i am in On Canada and i think the water is pretty fine over here.
After mixing the Kent Marine Sea Salt with Tap Water, i used a dechlorinator and i've performed all the test on this Tap Water

- no existent phosphates
- no nitrates
- no copper

Should i keep using this water now since the measurements are fine?

I've been added to my canister new active carbon and Kent phosphates and silicates sponge remover. Right now after a few hours my phosphates are back to 0.1 as i can see and were successfuly removed by Kent. I will run two more days and then remove.
Even though i am using 3 canister filters, these are with nothing insigght except sponeges for debries filtration. I will only run one with some active carbon and a small amount of phosphates remover (two bags).

I don't have coraline algaes yet, but i have ugly brown algaes on the rocks and crushed corals, as well some of those old half algaes half plant (forgot the name).

I have a Venturi protein skimmer that is not doing any good job yet (two weeks since activation). I've noticed on some rocks some green stuff like a paint start groing, on the crabs shells i've seen pink (coralline)

My light was about 14 hours daily, two actinic lue and two day light. 160 watt per total.
Yes i was overfeeding my fishies :-(

Any advices regarding water. Since tests are good, can i use tap water? Also i am sure carbon will neutralize all other organic elements and some harmfull metals if existing.

The worse part is that the live rocks were coming from a bad fish tank with lots of algaes, low light and metallic nails in it :-( but sea stars tube worms and some other creatures were flurished already from them )
 
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Are you REALLY open to suggestions? If so, there are plenty of well experienced people who are willing and more than able to help you figure these things out. :question:
 
Well, like Dcan stated, you have to be willing to be open for suggestions, and not become offended, cause we are only here to help...that being said:
Imo, there is so much you need to change to be succesful
1). While the tank is still young, I would replace the crushed coral out for some sort of sand(arogonite sand), crused coral traps everything, which lead to high nitrates.

2). take the anemone out, he is going to die, and wipe your tank out, they need older tanks(9m-1yr old) and stronger lighting that what you have.

3). If you are planning on keeping anemones and corals in the future, start saving up for a nice light system(T5's are great). 160 watts of light is only enough light for fish.

4). gone ahead and get rid of the canister filters,they can become nitrate and phos traps, and look into setting up a nice sump/refuge with microalgae...guranteed to eliminate your phos and nitrates.

5). if you have good water in Canada, then I'll continue to use it, you can have it tested using a tds meter, to really determine if its worth using, but just a caution, all tap water contain metals and contaminants that we can't test for, but will present its self later on in your tank, in the form of algae.

6). I agree with you on the skimmer, they suck, I know, I had one when I first started out too. So that'll have to be changed afterwhile. Also, slow down on the feedings, especially if feeding flakes or pellets, that could be your only problem right there as far as phos, because fish food can lead to it...it contains ash.

7). If your rocks came from a tank containg nails and algae, you have taken on that issue also then, unless you cleaned them very well before placing in your tank. rule of thumb, shoot for 1-2lbs of rocks per gal for very good biological filtration.

8). Stay on this site 24/7...j/k...and ask questions, we like questions and pictures, and love helping each other. Be patient with your tank, it takes time, don't try to do everything all at one time, it takes your average marine tank a year to become mature.

Good Luck and have fun...and remember, if you have questions...ask them.:D
 
qxcontinuum said:
The worse part is that the live rocks were coming from a bad fish tank with lots of algaes, low light and metallic nails in it :-( but sea stars tube worms and some other creatures were flurished already from them )
Click to expand...

the rock is soaked with po4 now it will continue to leach it out so you are going to have po4 problems for a long time.


you have way to much in your tank that is only 2 months old the nem is going to die. you do not have enough light to keep anything but fish and maybe a couple different soft corals maybe.
 
thank you for reply.

1) would sand mixed with crush corals be better? This is what i have now. The sand is at the bottom and crushed corals are on top. Removing now all the sand setting it is too complicated. Isn't crushed coral raising up the ph?

is really necessary to have sand? my nitrates are 0.


2) Should i get rid of canisters even if all media was removd? I was thinking to keep them only for that piece of sponge which filters all the debries from the tank.

3) My anemone has doubled its tentacles. in the past few days. The tentacles are alrady longer than before and since i updated the lighting she has developed a pink color and in the night green.

I am going to do water changes every two weeks from now, siphoning the sand. I am using Kent marine salt. Is that enaugh to provide elements for a reef or should i keep adding kent marine reef part a and b which is adding strontium and magnesium and other traces and also part b is the buffer. Would that be good?
I think this is the reason one of the urchins is dying because of magnesium. I've heard they don't like it! :-(


I was thinking to create a sump but i don't have a drilled tank. Is that required. Can't i just ad a pipe that takes the water moving it in the sump and from there another one coming back? I didn't read about this subject but i'll do.

However i don't understand why all these were affected by the distilted water. online i've read someone's advice about not using distilated water since beeing withouth minerals will ruin the equilibrium of the water and all its components.

I don't buy more corals and i'l wait until the tank is aging. Question. Is my set up well now? What's the most important part in maintaining a reef?
If the readings are correct it means you are on the right path?

How can i save my urchin? It started loosing its spines :-(
 
If you are going to use your tap water I would at least run it through a faucet carbon filter. Dupont makes a pretty good one. Available at any walmart cost about $30 bucks. That way if you do have any metals it should reduce or remove them. I know most people dont like canister filters in sw tanks. However I do run one mainly just for flow and carbon plus mine has a built in uv. I clean it weekly most people wont do that thats why they become nitrate traps. You are able to read phosphates now because you cleaned some of your rocks. It was probably always there just the algae will mask the test . Algae eats phosphates thats why most of us run refugiums with macro algae in it. Macro algae is easier to contain then micro. I have to agree with the smitty about light but you will find that out eventually. Wish you the best of luck with the tank and no I am not being sarcastic, I really do hope everything works out well for you.
 
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qxcontinuum said:
thank you for reply.

1) would sand mixed with crush corals be better? This is what i have now. The sand is at the bottom and crushed corals are on top. Removing now all the sand setting it is too complicated. Isn't crushed coral raising up the ph? no unlesss your ph gets under 7.5 it will not turn to cal and it does not buffer very well at all. it is a shit trap it is too big grain size and traps everything/

is really necessary to have sand? my nitrates are 0. no but it does help with biological filtration


2) Should i get rid of canisters even if all media was removd? I was thinking to keep them only for that piece of sponge which filters all the debries from the tank. they work good for running carbon and phosphate remover they are nitrate and garbage traps any other way

3) My anemone has doubled its tentacles. in the past few days. The tentacles are alrady longer than before and since i updated the lighting she has developed a pink color and in the night green. that may not be a good sing that it is spliting like that it could be the last thing it does beofre it dies. many times they do that out of stress for a chance of better survial. but not always. what new light upgrade did you do. most nems need more light than corals and clams

I am going to do water changes every two weeks from now, siphoning the sand. I am using Kent marine salt.how do you mix your salt? Is that enaugh to provide elements for a reef or should i keep adding kent marine reef part a and b which is adding strontium and magnesium and other traces and also part b is the buffer. Would that be good? part a and b are cal and alk additives they have ston and mag in them so if you dont test for it dont use it you have nothing in there that needs you to be using a 2 part.
I think this is the reason one of the urchins is dying because of magnesium. I've heard they don't like it! :-( no not true they are not sensitive to mag levels my mag is at 2k and my urcin does fine they are very sensitive for copper and nitrates and nitrites. have you testes what those levels are?


I was thinking to create a sump but i don't have a drilled tank. Is that required. Can't i just ad a pipe that takes the water moving it in the sump and from there another one coming back? I didn't read about this subject but i'll do. you have to buy an overflow box to do it right without a drilled tank you can find them at dr foster and smith.com

However i don't understand why all these were affected by the distilted water. online i've read someone's advice about not using distilated water since beeing withouth minerals will ruin the equilibrium of the water and all its components. it was not the distalled water it was just everything comming to a head since your tank is new it can take a long time for things to start to grow and when they finally do there is enough nutrients in the water to fuel the alage like a wild fire.

I don't buy more corals and i'l wait until the tank is aging. Question. Is my set up well now? What's the most important part in maintaining a reef? husbandry to the tank and knowing what is right and wrong like we have all tried to tell you before but you know more than we do and many of us have been doing this a long time
If the readings are correct it means you are on the right path? depends on what reading you are taking.did you ever doa copper test? do you test for cal?mag? do not add anything that you dont test for you are asking for trouble.

How can i save my urchin? It started loosing its spines :-(
it is prob a gonner. that is a sign of major stress like maybe high nitrites or nitrates what kind of test kits do you use let me guess the paper strip ones if so they are no good you need to get some quality drip test kits that are as new as possible
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i hope this helps if you are willing to listen to us or just tell us how wrong we are about the things we sa. we will help if you want it and listen to what we have to say
 
qxcontinuum said:
daugherty said:
the rock is soaked with po4 now it will continue to leach it out so you are going to have po4 problems for a long time.
QUOTE]

Can they be removed and brushed?

Or they are no longer ood and other ones are required?
Click to expand...


you can scrub all the rocks but there is prob so much po4 traped inside the rock that it will contune to be a problem as the rock leaches it out you need to do water changes weekly to keep the levels down in the tank and you are going to have alage probs for a while i bet.
Click to expand...
 
qxcontinuum said:
thank you for reply.

1) would sand mixed with crush corals be better? This is what i have now. The sand is at the bottom and crushed corals are on top. Removing now all the sand setting it is too complicated. Isn't crushed coral raising up the ph?
crushed coral is bad period...get rid of it, the sand is also a ph buffer
is really necessary to have sand? my nitrates are 0.
it's not necessary, but if you want a reef, it is beneficial

2) Should i get rid of canisters even if all media was removd? I was thinking to keep them only for that piece of sponge which filters all the debries from the tank.
if you decide to keep the canisters, you have to pretty much have to clean the weekly with your water changes
3) My anemone has doubled its tentacles. in the past few days. The tentacles are alrady longer than before and since i updated the lighting she has developed a pink color and in the night green.
sorry to say, but 160 watts over a 90gal is only 1.777 watts/gal...anemones need about 5watts/gal...and pristine water...trust me, it's probably dying a slow death
I am going to do water changes every two weeks from now, siphoning the sand. I am using Kent marine salt. Is that enaugh to provide elements for a reef or should i keep adding kent marine reef part a and b which is adding strontium and magnesium and other traces and also part b is the buffer. Would that be good?
start off by doing weekly water changes for now, and no need to add anything to the tank...the salt mix will have everything your reef needs
I think this is the reason one of the urchins is dying because of magnesium. I've heard they don't like it! :-(
there could be a number of things...I bet you have nitrates, but they are just hiding inside the algae...high nitrates will kill inverts...so will copper, which you probably have traces of also from the rocks you received...try feeding him some algae sheets to see if that helps...


I was thinking to create a sump but i don't have a drilled tank. Is that required. Can't i just ad a pipe that takes the water moving it in the sump and from there another one coming back? I didn't read about this subject but i'll do.
you don't need a drilled tank, you could use an overflow box, there's dozens of them out there that can be used instead of drilling your tank
However i don't understand why all these were affected by the distilted water. online i've read someone's advice about not using distilated water since beeing withouth minerals will ruin the equilibrium of the water and all its components.
the best water for the tank will be r/o and distilled water
I don't buy more corals and i'l wait until the tank is aging. Question. Is my set up well now? What's the most important part in maintaining a reef?
patience is your friend in this hobby...your tank is doing well, we all have made mistakes in the beginning, now lets all fix them so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor
If the readings are correct it means you are on the right path?
what type of test kits are you using, some aren't that great, if you don't alreasy have it...get the API brand drops...not strips
How can i save my urchin? It started loosing its spines :-(
Click to expand...
just start off by doing water changes, personally, I would remove the rocks you acquired, they could be whats killing your animals, and get some good live rock

Good luck:D
 
The guys have given you THE best advice out there on your problem.
Your just gonna have to put it to use and give it time now.
 
It is not the distilled water that caused the problem, since 95% of reefers use distilled or RODI water.

It is probably everything you've done so far just coming to a head and causing your tank to crash, which is what everyone warned you about in the previous threads that you started.

Crushed coral does not buffer your tank against pH changes. All it does is trap detritus and crap. It's a far inferior substrate to sand.

What kind of skimmer did you buy? There are good skimmers and bad skimmers, like any product out there. If you bought a cheap POS skimmer, it can't be expected to perform very well.

Your filtration system is not adequate, which was pointed out in previous threads. Your filtration system is basically a fresh water setup. If it was adequate, you wouldn't be having these problems.

You also admit to overfeeding. If you are feeding flakes or pellet foods, this could be the cause of your problems. You should only feed frozen foods, as flakes and pellets contain preservatives which break down and cause algae and water quality problems.

If your test kits are still reading everything as normal, I would suspect you have a bad test kit. It's a pretty common occurence. I'd suggest re-buying new pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits and see if they confirm what your old test kits are telling you. If your old test kits were wrong, then this is a problem that you've had for a long time and have been ignoring because the bad test kits were telling you everything was okay.

Lastly, your tank is still very young. It is completely normal for a new tank to have algae outbreaks in the first few months that it's set up. This is why we recommend not adding so many animals from the beginning! You have to wait for your tank to stablize before you add so many critters. Especially anemones, which do not do well in new tanks at all.
 
A few more ideas...

Sometimes the nitrate test will read zero, when in fact you do have a nitrate problem. That's because the algae is using the nitrates so quickly out of the water column that it does not stay in the water long enough to show up on a test.

For example, in an algae-filled tank, phoshates will only stay in the water column an average of 4 seconds. So your test could be reading zero, but that's because the algae is using it all.

If your live rock came from a tank that had metal (like nails) in it, that's bad news. Live rock tends to absorb metals and slowly release the metals back out over time. That's why you can't re-use rock that has been in a copper-treated tank. Even if you change out all the water, dry out the rocks, etc. as soon as you put them in a new tank, they will start releasing the copper and kill stuff in your tank.

You say you read online someone said not to use distilled water because it doesn't contain minerals. Well, you should have realized by now that you've read a lot of wrong information online. This is bad information. You should use it BECAUSE it doesn't contain minerals. Your salt mix contains all the minerals your tank needs. When you mix the salt with the distilled water, you get a good balance that mimics natural sea water. If you are using water that already contains minerals, the stuff in the salt will compound with what's in the water, and you will be out of balance. That's precisely the reason why people in this hobby should use pure, filtered RODI or distilled water. You don't want any minerals in it!!

You said you are adding additives and chemicals, magnesium, strontium, etc. STOP adding these unless you are also testing them and find your tank deficient. Salt mixes will contain these elements. If you are just dosing your tank, then you could be overdosing. This is a very common mistake in this hobby. Do not add calcium, strontium, magnesium, buffer, or ANYTHING extra unless you test for it first and your test results show that you need to add it.

Salt mixes are meant to be used with RODI or distilled water. The salt contains everything that a beginning, basic mixed reef (like yours) would need. The only reason that people add other essential elements and dose is if they keep animals that use these elements quickly. For example, SPS corals use calcium very quickly. If you keep a lot of SPS, you will likely need to supplement calcium since the calcium contained in the salt mix will be used up quickly.

But you have nothing in your tank that requires specialized additives, so stop adding them.
 
+1 to all of the above.

Also, I'd like to suggest getting a hang on the back (HOB) refugium ASAP, like this one, and put some chaetomorpha macro algae in it. that will soak up some nitrates and phosphates, over time.

Increasing the number of water changes to at least once a week is a great idea. For me, I'd suggest doing 9 gallons every 3 days for a while, until your levels even out..especially if you don't get rid of the anemone.
 
Bifferwine said:
It is not the distilled water that caused the problem, since 95% of reefers use distilled or RODI water.

It is ....
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with this. Maybe you got a bad batch of distilled water. Distilled water can have lots of aluminum in it and too much of this is not good. Stranger things have happened in this hobby. I know some cities in canada have excellent quality water. Vancouver has tap water as low as 30 TDS!

Test your tap water with a TDS meter. If your tap water has low TDS and everything was good when you used it then perhaps the simple and counter-intuitive solution is to go with tap water!
 
Ok so the rocks and crushed corals might be a problem. in canada everything is expensive. 3.98 / lb of live rock.

The cheappest sand i've seen is from 60$ above.

How can i cure and keep my own rocks?
Can i keep my crushed corals?

If i'll perform water changed on weekly basis and having active carbon changed also weekly. Will that remove the metals from the rocks?

Options?

Thanks

Thank you
 
what kind of sand are you looking at? dont buy the live sand in a bag that crap is spendy just buy something like this. as for LR 4bucks a pound is cheap here in the states some places are over 10 per pound. put all the rock in a rubermaid tub full of salt water and put the lid on it and every few days change the water out at least almost all the water this is called cooking the rock. it can and will help get rid of the po4 in the rock. but yoou really need to change the crushed coral out for sand you can save the rock but it is going to take time
 
crushed corals mixed with live sand will not work?
This caribean sand here at big all it's about 40$ a bag. I bought once in the beggining and i have mixed with my crushed corals. This is what i have now. Also there's lots of worms underneeth in this mixture. Should they be there?

i'd look forward to build a hang on sump.

I've noticed the appearance of coralline in some places on the rock, as well ad some other green and blue colored stuff. is this a good sign?
 
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