My GFO thread

N

Nonfamous

Reefing newb
Okay, so I have a cyano issue and Phosphate issue. I've looked around to figure out this problem and its solutions but can't seem to get straight answers or answers I understand. My plan is to do some work on my sump over the next week, hopefully to eliminate some problems leading to high phosphates, and add a GFO reactor. Keep in mind, I am new and have never actually seen one of these in person, so I'm going to ask a lot of questions here. Hopefully I can get all of my answers in one place!

First off, where in the world do these phosphates come from? I have always used RODI and I rinse my frozen food before I put it in the tank. I was feeding once a day, but now I'm down to every other day.

How unreliable is my API PO test? I have heard that they give everyone false positives. I have also heard that if it shows any, then you must assume that you have 6x more than the results show. (Test kit is good, called API already.)

Depending on the unit, and none of them look alike to me, is it installed in the sump? And WHERE?

What size pump do I need to push water through it?

What exactly does GFO stand for?!?

Do these units come plug and play or do I need supplies to fill it with? If so, What?

How long should it take to see..... a reduction in PO levels? Reduction Cyano on the sand? Lesser amounts of green algae on my rock? Lesser accumulation on the glass?

I'll post some pictures after I pull the sump, clean it, fix my filter issue and have it ready to put back in.
 
I cant help you with all your questions, but I can answer a few

You are getting a lot of different answers because there are lots of ways to deal with algae and phosphate issues, and lots of different causes. Even though you are feeding every other day, you still get some phosphate from the food that goes uneaten and then the fish poop. What are you feeding exactly? Mysid shrimp have a much higher level of phosphates than most frozen foods and can cause phosphate issues. If you are feeding that, I would switch food sources.

All phosphate kits are unreliable because algae and cyano are so efficient at uptaking the phosphates that they arent in the water column long enough to be detected. However, because you have cyano and algae issues, you can assume that you do have a phosphate and nitrate issue. You can also get false readings of zero for the same reason.

GFO = granular ferrous oxide. Its basically rust. But the phosphate molecules are attracted to the GFO particles, binding to them instead of being taken up by the algae. And i think it will depend on how bad your phosphate problem is before you start seeing results.
 
Okay, well, its done. I pulled the sump and cleaned it.

Removed all power equipment and cleaned everything.
Got rid of the sponge filter permanently.
Moved some wiring around, there is FAR TOO MUCH OF THIS IN THIS HOBBY!!!
I managed to keep the rock rubble under water so it was never exposed to air until the 2 seconds it was moved from the bucket back into the sump. Is this going to be a problem?
By emptying the sump, I ended up doing a 20 gallon water change. Now the DT is a little cloudy. I'm concerned that I currently have no physical filter in place. Nothing to remove the water born particles. This will change once my new eshopps bag holder comes in.
The tank temp dropped from 80.2*F to 74.3*F during this work. It dropped in about 3 hours and is now on its way back up. Did I damage anything from this? I have the heaters on 81*F right now, but will return them to the 78*F I normally had them set at once the temp comes up. With the lights on it stays around 79.8*F. It did get a little warmer today than usual.

So in a few hours I'll run my standard tests to make sure I didn't screw things up too bad. I'm going to a LFS to discuss GFO reactors later and actually see one in person. Depending on his mark up, I may buy one or I may buy the AIO kit from BRS. I have a spare MN 404 pump here. Would it be large enough to run a GFO?

Yes, pictures will be posted soon. I'm just too tired!
 
Yes, there is a lot of electrical wiring in this hobby, which seems odd because water and electricity mix so poorly.

No need to worry about the rocks dying off, they will be just fine.

That seems like quite the temperature drop, I would keep an eye on everything, that could cause some issues. You might get an ich outbreak on the fish, dont worry, it should clear up once the temperatures settle out.

And all those little particle fly around in the ocean, i figure the corals or someone will enough those little pieces. No need to freak out about them.
 
According to Dr Shimkek (coral expert and hobbyist) phosphates are a bigger problem then nitrates.
Granular ferric oxide (GFO) is a good way to get rid of phosphates. Enough Cheato can also get rid of phosphates.
Yes, phosphates will cause cyano. I just got rid of cyano in my 20g long by using aluminum instead GFO.
Actually you don't want to completely get rid of phosphates. In sea water phosphates are naturally at approx 0.07 ppm. At 0.25ppm they will start killing your corals. Some people have had problems with phosphates going so low that corals start getting sick. Yes, corals need tiny amounts of phosphates.

Hope this helps.
 
Okay, so I picked up a PhosBan 150 and some PhosBan media. I am using a MN 606 for the supply pump. According to the instructions I should use 50 grams for 50 gallons. My total system is 115 gallons. Since I really have no way of measuring 50 grams right now, I used the reactor instructions and added the minimum of 5 cm to the unit. I didn't want to shock the system by adding too much or even the maximum amount yet.

Its installed and running. I actually hung it inside the sump. Yes, the bottom of the unit is in the water! I guess its doing its thing. Only time, and your advice, will tell. (I saw the "Two Little Fishes" logo and felt it was an omen....little_fish has been such a big help I couldn't pass it up!)

Temp is up to 78.6 right now. Everyone looks okay except my One Spot FoxFace. He is showing his "stripe" more than normal, but seems to be doing okay otherwise. The Zoas are open and the Yellow polyps are looking normal.

The tank has cleared a bit, but its still a mess. I really need to clean the glass and scoop some of that crap off the sand, but without some type of mechanical filtration, I don't want to stir things up as of yet. My 3 turbos are working overtime that's for sure! I haven't seen all of them for some time and boy have 2 of them gotten BIG.

Pictures in the AM sometime.
 
You are not going to "shock the system" by adding GFO. It's not a chemical that you dose, it's a filter media like carbon more than anything else.
 
I would question your brand of salt. Some brands especially the cheaper ones say they are phosphate free but if you test it you will find out otherwise.

I only use high quality salt, I rather spend the extra money up front than deal with the headache later.
 
Nonfamous said:
Instant Ocean? Thought it was a good brand. What ya think?
Click to expand...

I know a lot of people use it and seem to like it, I tried it once because it was on sale at petsmart and thought it was pretty crappy. I have also read user reviews on sites where people have complained that when they tested the freshly made saltwater it had phosphates in it.

I only use tropicmarin reef now. Its a little more expensive but I dont have to use any additives and I dont have anymore hair algae.

I would do some reading and research and try another brand for a month or two and see if you get any results. Sometimes the issues we have with our tanks are from the least likely suspects.
 
I am now going to break down and answer my own questions and what I have learned both here and elsewhere.

Q: Where in the world do these phosphates come from?

A: Well lots of places! They can come from tap water, foods, additives, some salt mixes and fish waste. Since I have only been using RODI water I was able to eliminate one of those. My actual issue seems to have been caused by an accumulation of waste, uneaten food and fish waste, in a sponge filter in my sump.

Q: How unreliable is my API PO test?

A: well, that depends. They really should market these as a positive or negative test and not a quantitative test. They can, and will, detect phosphates. Chances are, if you have a positive reading of any number, you have excessive phosphates in your tank.

Q: Depending on the unit, and none of them look alike to me, is the reactor installed in the sump?

A: There are a LOT of different styles for GFO reactors. Some are HOB, some are remote mount and some can placed in the sump. Any way you mount it, it WILL need a small pump to work.

Q: What size pump do I need to push water through it?

A: It depends on the units size. For mine, a small unit, a small pump was needed. Most come with some type of valve to adjust/reduce the flow into/through the reactor. My pump is capable of 185 GPH but its turned down to about 20 gph via the included valve.

Q: What exactly does GFO stand for?

A: (by little_fish) GFO = granular ferrous oxide. Its basically rust. But the phosphate molecules are attracted to the GFO particles, binding to them instead of being taken up by the algae.

Q: Do these units come plug and play or do I need supplies to fill it with? If so, What?


A: Yes they do.....kinda. You can buy kits that include everything you need. What is needed are:

1. Reactor vessel
2. Media (GFO)
3. Pump
4. Fittings (usually come with the reactor)
5. Hose

Q: Can you shock the system by adding the maximum amount to GFO to your reactor?

A: No.


Q: How long should it take to see a reduction in PO levels?

A: Though phosphates will immediately begin to be absorbed by the GFO media, how quickly you will see signs of it will vary significantly. Variables such as tank size, reactor size, flow, PO levels and GFO media type will all play a hand in how quickly the Phosphate levels drop. I will let you know when I start seeing improvements!
 
Picture time!!!


My issue was a sponge filter. Note the one left of the skimmer....that's the one! (Picture of sump BEFORE tank was started. The other sponge and balls were removed prior to start up.)
DSCN1453.jpg



Here we have the stand with no sump! Boy was that a lot of effort to get it to that point. Too many electrical wires with this hobby. 2 heaters, 3 pumps, 3 power heads, ATO controller, ATO sensors, 3 lights, timers..... AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!
DSCN1639.jpg


Sump cleaned and reinstalled!! Yay! See, no more sponge.
DSCN1640.jpg


GFO reactor installed. Hoping for the best.
DSCN1642.jpg


Another look at what I'm trying to get rid of.
DSCN1643.jpg
 
Ok, now just give it some time! It's frustrating looking at the tank and hoping nuisance algae will go away. I had some nuisance cycle algae on my new 150, started using biopellets - I was just starting to get impatient when blamo, algae gone!
 
This one says that both carbon and GFO can be used at the same time. Not sure how to do it. I was only interested in getting the GFO started and didn't even look at adding the carbon!
 

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