Not a good fish to keep in tank

My thing was yes it is sad, but it IS a wild animal, Weather or not you train it, there is always the chance of being killed/seriously hurt when working with them. We're taught that at the aquarium where the most dangerous thing we deal with is our otters (who love biting through steel toed boots only to break your toes, cute but super dangerous) and our sharks. All animals are wild, and at the aquarium thats how we see things too... even though we DO have wild animals on display. Part of our mission is to inspire the world to save and conserve the ocean, which has to do with the otters being on display. However OUR otters all have medical disabilities that without being in our care would die. Otter pups we find without problems are released back into the wild after being raised by one of our "trained" otters.

I think its sad but all trainers/people who work with these animals KNOW the risk and we do it because we love it, not because we fear or like death. I don't have a problem with them breeding orcas and releasing them, but i do believe that not all animals deserve to live in tanks forever.

 

It is so sad. I completely understand this woman's love for the whales.

 

I hope there will come a day when we won't see animals in captivity anymore. Who do we think we are? Do we have the right to hijack animals and put it in [sic] display

-from the comments at the bottom of the story.

Hope they don't mean corals!

 

There is a long history of big, "trained" predators in captivity suddenly going bezerk. Ever heard of Siegfried and Roy?

I saw the very killer whale at sea world Orlando a couple years back as I said in a previous post.

I am now convinced that the people at Sea World are idiots. They've said in response to the the whole incident the only thing they are going to do is review the procedures. "Trainers will review safety procedures and change them as needed, but Tompkins said he doesn't expect the killer whale shows to be much different." Whale that killed its trainer won't be isolated - Yahoo! News

Sea World is a business first and a conservation organization second.

 

Not to change the subject but has anyone seen the NAT GEO documentary called "The Whale that ate Jaws" And yes, they have footage of it. It seems that a certain pod of killer whales named the "L.A. Pod" (Los Angeles) has figured out that when you roll a great white shark over it goes into a transe. ( I guess all sharks do)

So these whales will sneak up on the side and hit them, flip them over, and eat them for lunch. It's absolutley incredible to see. They also showed footage of them doing it with stingrays (also sharks) they will literally swim with their head facing directly toward the sand of the ocean floor, grab a sting ray by it's tail (like a surgeon I might add) and gobble away.

If you ever get a chance to see it, I highly recommend it, you'll really get a full understanding of just how smart these animals are.

And the last thing absolutely incredible abouy the whole thing is, at that point in time, when the whale ate the great white, all of the great whites disappeared. (This happened off the coast of San Francisco) Their should have been approx. 300 great whites in the water at that point....Well scientists had some tracking devices on some of the great whites. They swam from San Francisco to Hawaii, just to avoid being eaten. Every one of them.

If you'd like to take a look at the video:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/wild/4669/Videos#tab-Videos/07504_00

 

I couldn't agree with this more. There are REAL conservation organizations out there that are trying to protect the whales, and aren't making millions off of it to line their own pockets with.

 

There is nothing wrong with making money in one's conservation efforts. In fact, the money is important in forwarding those efforts. The problems arise when the love of money causes one to act against one's conservation efforts.

 

I think that's a really unfair thing to say. A wild animal, held in captivity against its will, should be put down for...being a wild animal? That doesn't make any sense.

According to news articles that I've read, this whale WAS in an exhibit tank only. It is twice the size of the performing orcas they have at Seaworld, and because of its nature and disposition, it was kept in a tank alongside the performing whales, but was not a performing whale itself. The trainer supposedly tripped and fell into the tank (or was dragged into the tank by the whale), but this whale was not being used in the show.

Instead of being put down or kept on exhibit, this whale should be rehabilitated to take care of itself and released into the wild where it can live out the rest of its life and follow its natural instincts without its life being threatened for "breaking the rules" that have been imposed upon him unwillingly.

It is well known that cetaceans kept in captivity suffer mental problems because their echolocation signals bounce off of the concrete walls of their pools and make them go crazy. Their life spans are significantly shorter in captivity than they are in the wild. IMO, it is immoral to try and hide behind the shield of "conservation" while mistreating the very animals that you are purporting to save.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you Biff, but it seems hard to determine what is moral. It is also hard to determine what constitutes mistreatment. Is it immoral for me to keep my majestic angelfish when clearly he will not grow to his full size and will probably die younger than his wild counterpart? Am I mistreating it?

I am very much for conservation of corals and reef fishes. Much of my desire to conserve the reefs comes from my passion for keeping (mistreating?) the animals in my tank. Is SeaWorld that much different?

 

It's a tough question, but you have to be able to draw the line somewhere. If you look at the natural ranges of whales and dolphins in the wild, they're huge. The tanks they're kept in, in comparison are tiny. Is it cruel that you keep an angel fish? I don't know. I don't think so... Not that it's right to do so, but a lot of people draw the line between mammals and non-mammals. Whales are mammals, like us. Fish aren't. Whales are obviously extremely smart. Maybe that helps to distinguish what is "right" and what is "wrong". I don't know the answer to your question -- not everything has a black or white solution, especially "moral issues".

 

these whales dont breed in tanks. Yes there could be a few exceptions but to think that seaworld only breeds its own whales its completely not true.

LIke someone mentoned before they are a business before anything else. How would any of you like it if aliens came down and took you from your homes and put you in a display tank and tried to breed you or "conserve" you.? Not fun when its you but ok when its someone else...

 

Im curious what makes you say that Sea World Has a love for money, or puts money ahead of conservation or the health of their animals? I would say that a company driven to effect change and create conservation programs needs money and lots of it or they will be ineffective in their efforts. If you spend anytime in their parks, they have placards all over the place talking about the conservation efforts that they are making and the care they take of their animals. Its a catch 22 because if they didn't open their park to the public they could never afford to keep the animals, perform the research, or contribute in any way to conservation, yet by opening to the public they fall under scrutiny for being profitable and people question their motives. I truly haven't put substantial effort into researching their active role in conservation, but I have never gotten the impression that money was their top priority while visiting their parks. I try to get their every year. I love it!

 

how are they even conserving whales when the japanese are killing so many every year. Seems that there are much better ways to conserve than to open a theme park :dunno:

 

I'm pretty shocked to hear these things from this group... Do you know that the natural area for a pair of clowns is +/- 500 feet. I don't think that anyone on here can talk about ethics, the natural swimming room of these animals, and judge Sea World without sounding like a total hypocrite. I think we have all made a bold statement that we are ok with keeping animals in captivity by keeping our tanks, our dogs, our cats etc. If you really have issues with Sea World, then get rid of your pets first, or are you saying that it's ok to keep some but not others???

 

I don't see how everyone can be so hard on them when they are making conservation efforts. If there is a better way then do it and we will all benefit from it. As far as I can tell whether they profit from it or not, Seaworld is doing more to help our oceans than the rest of us...

 

No, this is what I said in response to that very question:

 

im strictly talking about whales, not clown fish. Surely you can see a difference between keeping a whale and small fish.

 

Actually you are completely wrong. According to the spokesman at Seaworld the "Killer" whale has fathered several of the whales at Seaworld. That's probably why they are keeping it.

 

The Case Against Marine Mammals in Captivity is the only publication available that discusses virtually all the aspects of this controversy from the viewpoint of those who oppose the practice. If anyone wants to know how or why a reasonable person could disagree with conventional wisdom—that the public display of marine mammals is valuable, and even necessary, because it is educational and supports conservation efforts—they should read this document. While ethical and logical arguments and opinions are offered here, the publication relies substantially on peer-reviewed sources and literature from credible sources (e.g., government technical reports, professional conference proceedings) to make its points. The Case Against Marine Mammals in Captivity should provide readers with all the arguments they need to oppose the public display of these animals. Once armed with this information, activists, students, legislators, and others can start to shift the conventional wisdom from one that supports the display of marine mammals for our entertainment to one that recognizes that these unique species can only be sustained by their natural habitat. See the "What You Can Do" section below for specific things you can do to help.
More highlights from the 76-page report:

• Marine mammals in captivity have a history of premature deaths from a variety of causes, including drowning, ingesting foreign objects, and attacks from other animals, according to the Marine Mammal Inventory Report, which is maintained by the U.S. government as required by the Marine Mammal Protection Act.
• The primary justification for the public display of marine mammals is the educational benefit of these exhibits. However, no one has ever published an objective, detailed evaluation of the educational programs offered by a representative selection of marine theme parks and aquaria.
• Scientific assessments of marine mammal populations should be conducted before live capture operations are allowed. But few governments have such legal requirements, and those that do rarely enforce the law. In effect, the live trade in marine mammals is unregulated.
• Dolphinaria and aquaria often present their marine mammal breeding programs as conservation projects, but few endangered or threatened species are being bred in captivity and no reintroduction-to-the-wild research is being conducted, at least for whales and dolphins.
• Husbandry practices in most zoos, dolphinaria, and aquaria frequently separate offspring from their mothers long before they would separate from each other in the wild. This has resulted in many captive-bred animals’ lacking essential survival and reproductive skills.
• Public display is often justified with the argument that essential scientific research is conducted on captive animals. However, a majority of this research relates to improving husbandry practices, not to solving conservation problems. In addition, captive animals are rarely considered ideal research subjects when attempting to answer questions related to conservation issues.
• Marine mammals are unique when it comes to captive wildlife because of their oceanic habitat. Captive enclosures cannot simulate the complexity of the ocean and coasts. "Semi-natural" conditions are only possible with sea pens and even then, enclosure size is less than one percent of the natural habitat range of most cetaceans.
• Cetacean veterinary care is still limited in its effectiveness. It is not unusual for cetaceans to stop eating, become lethargic, and then die 36-48 hours later, long before a veterinarian can diagnose the problem.
• Injuries in interactive encounters (whether swim-with programs, petting pools or the like) occur far more frequently than officially reported.
• The risk to the public or to caretakers from marine mammals is significant, whether injury or contracting infections or diseases. On the flip side, infection through close contact with people threatens captive marine mammals.
• Annual mortality rates for captive orcas are three times as high as for their wild counterparts.

• Annual mortality rates for captive dolphins (in state-of-the-art facilities) are about the same as for wild dolphins. However, marine theme parks and aquaria argue that captivity keeps marine mammals safe from predators, pollution, parasites, and food shortages, and offers veterinary care. Public display proponents cannot have it both ways—either captivity is safer and cetacean life spans should increase, or something in captivity kills cetaceans with an efficiency at least equal to that of wild hazards. One obvious culprit in captivity is persistent stress from confinement.

 

Neither of you are completely wrong or completely right. They breed SOME of their whales. Not all. Others are wild caught. According to Seaworld's own webpage (Ask Shamu) they collect animals from the wild as well:

Where do you get your animals?
We acquire our animals in many ways. SeaWorld has an amazing breeding program, for example, and we have had more than 24,000 animals born throughout our parks including more than 20 successful killer whale births and more than 100 bottlenose dolphin births. We have the best facilities in the world for breeding many types of animals, including killer whales and other dolphins. With proper government permits, we may collect animals from the wild or rescue sick, orphaned, or injured animals. SeaWorld has the finest facilities on the planet for the rescue, rehabilitation, and release of stranded animals, so many of the creatures that you see at our parks have been rescued. Our main goal is to release these animals. However, some of them are so badly injured that they would not survive in the wild. We have some endangered manatees and sea turtles that cannot be released due to severe injuries and others such as white pelicans and sand hill cranes that have had their wings damaged in the wild and can no longer fly. Finally, we may obtain animals from other zoological parks or private breeders.

ASK SHAMU - Frequently Asked Questions