Not a good fish to keep in tank

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by sen5241b, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. sen5241b

    sen5241b

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    You're kind sounds incredible BUT the comparison with a pig is scientifically conclusive (did I really need to explain that?)

    I've been thinking about this whole thing with the killer whale and the real conclusion here is that 'no big predator can ever be completely tamed'.
     
    sen5241b, Feb 26, 2010
    #61
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  2. sen5241b

    andysgirl8800 Blenny Badlands

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    +1 Sharkie
     
    andysgirl8800, Feb 26, 2010
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  3. sen5241b

    Navarchus Almost smarter than a pig

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    +2 sharkie (except for the part about the pigs and how I raise my kids).

    Agree with you sens re the predator. Disagree that there is scientifically conclusive evidence that pigs are smarter than kids.

    I like Biff's idea that there is a distinction between mammal and non-mammal. I was watching this TV program once where they tried to catch an alligator that had been eating villagers in Africa. To be humane, they didn't want to kill it, they just wanted to catch it and move it to a different place. In order to catch it, they tied a goat to a pole near the river's edge and once attacked the goat they all ran out and caught the alligator. I was like, "what about the goat?" He's practially family compared to an alligator!
     
    Navarchus, Feb 26, 2010
    #63
  4. sen5241b

    sen5241b

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    I wasn't the one who said that pigs are smarter than humans but in scientific testing they have scored very high. Google 'pig intelligence studies' --you'll see a ton of stuff
     
    sen5241b, Feb 27, 2010
    #64
  5. sen5241b

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Navarchus, notice the articles I linked to make a distinction -- the average pig is smarter than the AVERAGE four-year old, not EVERY four-year old. Perhaps your daughter is exceptional and is smarter than pigs. By your own admission, your daughter is above average in what she is able to accomplish compared to her peers in this country. But put in a pool with 1,000 other four-year olds, the average pig would score better on intelligence tests. This IS scientifically proven whether your daughter plays the piano, speaks Japanese or not. Just because your daughter is an exceptional child doesn't negate the fact that most other four-year olds are not exceptional, and do not score as well as pigs on intelligence tests! There are a lot of things that I hate are scientifically proven (like eating ice cream all day long will make you fat), but that doesn't make it untrue just because I want it to be.

    I'm not saying your daughter (or any four-year olds) are dumb. To the contrary: I am saying that pigs are exceptionally intelligent. You can't deny this, no matter what skills your daughter has mastered at the age of 4.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
    Bifferwine, Feb 27, 2010
    #65
  6. sen5241b

    Sharkie The Damsel Defender

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    +1 biff, thats all I was saying :)
     
    Sharkie, Feb 27, 2010
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  7. sen5241b

    dcantucson

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    This thread has gone to the hogs! :lol:
     
    dcantucson, Feb 27, 2010
    #67
  8. sen5241b

    Navarchus Almost smarter than a pig

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    Lol Dcant. That's SO my fault.

    I do not dispute that pigs are smart. Surely they are. The studies say that they are one of the smartest with the exception of primate. But to say that they are as intelligent as a four year old, that's just crazytalk.

    According to Wiki the term Intelligence is an umbrella term describing a property of the mind comprehending related abilities, such as the capacities for abstract thought, reasoning, planning and problem solving, the use of language, and to learn.

    My daughter is not exceptional. She's just an average kid. The other four year olds that I know (daughter's friends, nieces) are no different. There is just no way that a pig has a better capacity for abstract thought, reasoning, planning, problem solving, the use of language, and learning than a four year old. Maybe a one year old....maybe.

    I am guessing anyone else who has a four year old will agree--they are scary smart. They seem to learn at a rate that far exceeds the rate at which adults learn. Try teaching an adult a new language--very hard. Try teaching a four-year old a new language--very easy.
     
    Navarchus, Mar 1, 2010
    #68
  9. sen5241b

    sen5241b

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    1+ Biff. Most people do not know how to interpret scientific results. I hear people say all the time that "a study said this or a study said that'. One study in the world of science rarely proves anything. When many studies consistently return the same results science may draw factual conclusions.

    Many studies on pig intelligence are consistent.
     
    sen5241b, Mar 1, 2010
    #69
  10. sen5241b

    Navarchus Almost smarter than a pig

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    You are probably right that most people do not understand how to interpret scientific results. In fact, most people probably don't really understand what a scientific result is in the first place. A great deal of the problem here is that the scientific method is inapplicable to some subjects, but because science has been so widely successful, people make up a pseudo-science to give their ideas credibility.

    So much of what is currently purported to be science is actually just cargo cult science that has the semblance of being scientific, but is missing scientific integrity. You see it all the time in studies about education, psychology, and even nutrition. These "scientific" studies that come out telling us one thing, only to be rebuffed a few years later by another "scientific" study saying the complete opposite.

    Well, unfortunately it appears that I will be unable to convince you guys that kids are smarter than pigs; a conclusion I did not think was that controversial. In closing this already-too-long-thread, I should mention that there are a number of “scientific” studies showing that kids are more intelligent that adults. (In one study, the researchers showed that children were four times better than adults in a memory test.)

    Simple logic would therefore commands the following conclusion: (Premise 1) The average pigs is smarter than the average kid. (Premise 2) The average kid is smarter than the average adult. (Conclusion) the average pigs is smarter than the average adult.

    These “scientific facts” lead to what I believe is an absurd conclusion -- that pigs are smarter than people. It my position that science cannot prove nor disprove whether or not pigs are more intelligent than people. It is not the proper subject for scientific inquiry.

    But, if you want to believe that pigs are smarter than people, then more power to you. Now, back to my reef tank! :)
     
    Navarchus, Mar 1, 2010
    #70
  11. sen5241b

    dcantucson

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    I'm with you on this one Navarchus. I'm sure that SOME pigs are smarter than SOME children, but are all pigs smarter than ALL children? There are a lot of factors which play into being smart or not.
     
    dcantucson, Mar 1, 2010
    #71
  12. sen5241b

    mng777777 Shark Wrangler Wannabe

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    I too have to agree with opposition on this one. The trouble with trying to prove one thing is smarter than another, is that a test has to be created, a test that will be limited by the capacity of its designer. I don't think that anyone here would dispute that pigs excel in certain areas, but unless the tests that were performed take into account all areas then I don't think that anyone can call them conclusive.
     
    mng777777, Mar 1, 2010
    #72
  13. sen5241b

    cthegame

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    I would normally say that pigs arent as smart as we think they are, but the fact that there are so many idiot humans in the world im going to have to agree that pigs are just as smart as little kids. I see more moron humans on a daily basis than intelligent humans...

    I dont consider humanity as an intelligent species...
     
    cthegame, Mar 1, 2010
    #73
  14. sen5241b

    mng777777 Shark Wrangler Wannabe

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    That's a good point Game, but you have to consider their capacity, not their actions because we all know that there are a lot of really bad parents out there. That makes me wonder... If we took a group of pigs and put the same time, effort, and money into raising them as a good parent does their young child, could a pig in fact, be groomed to exhibit far more intelligence than the average pig?

    We are right back where we started... I think the world will never truly know
     
    mng777777, Mar 1, 2010
    #74
  15. sen5241b

    yote Ceritfied Mantis Hunter Moderator

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    With enough time,ANY animal can be trained to do things that make look smarter then they actually are.Dont matter if is a cat,dog,bird,pig,or whatever.
    That dont really make that animal any smarter than the next.It just means that its been trained to act OR react in a certian manner.
    Feed a hog at the same time of day in the same stall,and that hog will learn when its feeding time and where its supposed to be to get the food.
    But when its all said and done.All that really matters,is how well that that pig is gonna fry up at supper time.
     
    yote, Mar 1, 2010
    #75
  16. sen5241b

    cthegame

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    ahahahaha

    Yea im leaning more towards they arent as smart as human children...i guess we need to define what is considered "intelligence"...
     
    cthegame, Mar 1, 2010
    #76
  17. sen5241b

    dcantucson

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    That's gonna be some Smart Bacon, yote. :lol:
     
    dcantucson, Mar 2, 2010
    #77
  18. sen5241b

    dustin_P74

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    Orca whales naturally do things like this. What did they expect to happen, especially when this whale in particular is bigger then the holding tank they use to house him.
     
    dustin_P74, Mar 2, 2010
    #78
  19. sen5241b

    PRC Stop Quoting Me!

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    I don't know if pigs are smarter than kids, but from what I've seen on COPS we're not setting the bar very high for them.
     
    PRC, Mar 2, 2010
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  20. sen5241b

    mng777777 Shark Wrangler Wannabe

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    Who is this Dustin I see just walking into this post like he owns it??? :) :) :)
     
    mng777777, Mar 2, 2010
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