oh yes, the comedian is back .. . . new advices?

Discussion in 'Invertebrates' started by qxcontinuum, Oct 13, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    toronto
    Ok so i can see the thread was closed. well was my faault;

    So i though new updates are required. Following your advices i've been upgrading my lights to 200Watt. more precisely; two actinic blue 2x40watt =80watt. and two day light also 80Watt + one actinic red 40 watt.
    I have 200Watt now in my fish tank and i think my fishies are totally goint blind from this bright light.

    Now if before under less lighting everything was great now under this strong lighting my corals will not open. If they do in the morning wwill only stay like that for a 10-15 minutes then close their polyps or hats. They will only open in the night time.

    Same with my anemone. Sooner i close the light she'll open her tentacles. When light's on she'll close them.

    Obviously there is too much light....
    Mushrooms are totally blemished from light, had to hide them under an opening.

    What are the advices now? Same light or reducing light? been 5 days since and still the corals are not getting use with this ET- super light!


    BTW i am not a troll

    P.s

    read here







    Introduction


    The use of activated carbon in Marine aquariums has always sparked debate. In the past opinions ranged from “never use it” to “never be without it.” Today most aquarists consider activated carbon a beneficial and necessary component of their filtration system. Although many marine aquarists use activated carbon few know what is being removed or how carbon is beneficial to the marine aquarium. Then the manufacturing processes will be described and its effects on the finished carbon product. The filtration or sorption mechanism will be discussed in addition to factors affecting activated carbon performance. Lastly techniques for the use of carbon products is provided as well as a “consumer checklist” for evaluation and selection of activated carbon products for use in marine aquaria.
    Organic Pollutants in the Marine Aquarium.


    The world’s reefs and oceans maintain a perfect balance of metabolic “waste” materials and nutrients via a series of recycling systems. The marine aquarium however, is quite different than nature relying on synthetic sea salt, artificial lighting, frozen foods, and an extremely high specimen to water ratio. While inorganic ammonia and nitrite are easily managed with “biological filtration” many organic compounds tend to accumulate resisting microbial degradation. These natural metabolic compounds remain largely unidentified but include organic acids, phenolics, proteins, carbohydrates, hormones, and antibiotic compounds. Few of these organics are directly toxic to marine specimens but can stimulate the growth of heterotrophic bacteria thus increasing demand for oxygen in the aquarium, producing carbon dioxide, lower pH, and lowering redox potential. Excess organics tax ozonation and foam fractionating systems. Certain organics that tint aquarium water yellow also reduce light penetration especially Actinic (420nm) type lighting. It is difficult to determine exactly which organic compounds are present in the aquarium and what specific effects they might have on different organisms. It had been observed that “organic laden” aquariums experience more disease problems and reduced fish growth while invertebrates close or cease reproduction. Some researchers believe that there is a direct relationship between high levels of organics and dense populations of disease organisms in aquaria. Reduction of naturally occurring organic compounds ultimately leads to improved water quality and healthier specimens. Activated carbon filtration is one of the most effective and easiest methods of removing organics from aquarium systems.
    Manufacturing Processes of Activated Carbon.


    Many natural substances of base materials are used to make activated carbon. The most common of these are wood, coal, lignite, and coconut shell. The base material is first subjected to a heating process called carbonization. This initial treatment forms a fixed carbon mass full of tiny pores. The carbonized base material is then activated by a second heat - steam treatment (200-1600 C) while regulating oxygen and carbon dioxide levels. Activation creates a fast internal pore network and imparts certain surface chemistries (functional groups) inside each particle. Thus activation gives carbon its unique filtering characteristics. The carbon product may be supplied as granular activated carbon (GAC), powdered activated carbon (PAC), or in pelleted form (compressed PAC). Some carbons are activated or washed with phosphoric acid, zinc chloride, or potassium hydroxide. These chemically treated activated carbons are unsuitable for use in the aquarium. These products could leach phosphate (an algae promoter), heavy metals, or alter pH.
    The Sorption Process: How Activated Carbon Works.


    Activated carbon removes organic compounds from aquaria by adsorption and absorption principles. Both processes involve the transfer of the adsorbate (pollutant) from the liquid phase (water) to the solid phase (carbon). Adsorption is the primary sorption mode relying on electrostatic Van der Walls forces. This attractive “force” forms relatively weak bonds between the carbon and adsorbate. In theory activated carbon could release or desorb what it removed at some point. But practical experience with aquarium filtration and laboratory experiments show desorption rarely occurs or causes any type of “toxic release”. Bacteria readily colonize the outer surface of the activated carbon and consume some of the sorbed organics. The bacterial action reactivates a small portion of the carbon and perhaps prevents desorption.
    Absorption refers to the diffusion of a gas or compound into the porous network where a chemical reaction or physical entrapment take place. Ozone for example is absorbed into activated carbon where it oxidizes a portion of the carbon’s surface. Ozone (O3) is reduced to oxygen (O2) thus “detoxified” and made safe for the aquarium. Ozone does not accumulate or build-up in the carbon structure. A third process called chemisorption forms an irreversible chemical bond between the carbon surface and the adsorbate. Pollutants are tightly bound to the sorbent.
    All three sorption processes occur simultaneously in the aquarium. The sorption process takes place in three stages:
    1) Organic laden water contacts the activated carbon particle.
    2) The adsorbate diffuses into the porous network.
    3) Sorption onto the carbon occurs. The sorption process has been described as the activity observed in a parking lot. Vehicles (organics) are moving freely on the main highway (aquarium water). Gradually vehicles enter the lot (pore) in search of a parking space (sorption site). As the parking lot becomes filled the sorption rate slows down. Sorption of large organic compounds takes longer than smaller compounds. The sorption rate is also influenced by water temperature, pH, and salinity, but these factors will not be discussed since they are “constants” in the marine aquarium.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    qxcontinuum, Oct 13, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. qxcontinuum

    d2mini VIP Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,630
    Likes Received:
    979
    Location:
    Houston
    I'm confused.

    You posted a lighting question in the inverts forum and then pasted in a bunch of info on activated carbon?
     
    d2mini, Oct 13, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    toronto
    Ps to Ps

    the only benefical improvement so far from this new lighting is that all the brown algae seems to be gone.
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 13, 2009
    #3
  4. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    toronto

    Yes the discussion on the other thread was also about activated carbon and the canister filters (which contain activated carbon) ortherwise i don't see anything wrong in having a canister filter as long as the active white bacteria stones are removed.
    since in a fish tank can be a lot of debries it should be logical a filtration is required and if a protein skimmer cannot remove these, at least a canister should be added
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    qxcontinuum, Oct 13, 2009
    #4
  5. qxcontinuum

    winyfrog Yep!

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,872
    Likes Received:
    219
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    Do you really want advice?




    Heres some more opinions on carbon use.

    Activated Carbon:

    It has been suggested that activated carbon might play a role in MHLLE (Frakes, 1988; Hemdal, 2003; Hemdal, pers. comm. and Michael, 2003), although the exact mechanism that these various authors suggest differs. Some have theorized that the activated carbon in the aquarium's filtration system could remove necessary trace elements that the fish require. Others hypothesize that activated carbon could leach something into the water that negatively affects the fish. And still others speculate that carbon dust may act as an irritant to the fish.

    As additional "anecdotal support" for this theory, Scott Michael noted that a local fish store he visited that used activated carbon was experiencing MHLLE in almost every fish under its care. And I must say, I too have witnessed similar experiences at retail locations that use a lot of activated carbon and then coincidentally experience massive outbreaks of MHLLE. But this is anecdote, not proof. In these situations there was simply no evidence of what might have happed in the absence of activated carbon, all other things remaining equal. It could just as easily be a dietary concern. Or, perhaps the store was using activated carbon to make up for a lack of water changes or other poor husbandry issues. There are simply too many factors involved to point to a definitive cause.

    Additionally, activated carbon is used so frequently in the ornamental fish industry and hobby that it is no surprise some fish exposed to activated carbon develop MHLLE. Also, since large numbers of fish routinely housed in systems utilizing activated carbon don't develop MHLLE, and consequently some fish develop MHLLE while not exposed to activated carbon, additional factors must be playing a role in those cases in which fish do exhibit symptoms of MHLLE.
     
    winyfrog, Oct 13, 2009
    #5
  6. qxcontinuum

    winyfrog Yep!

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,872
    Likes Received:
    219
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    winyfrog, Oct 13, 2009
    #6
  7. qxcontinuum

    Kwater Chill

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, CA
    I have allways concluded no carbon except for a day or so every now and then to take a some bad things out of the water. But running it 24-7 gave my tang hole in the head and unhappy corals. That's just my experiance. Everyone is diffrent.
     
    Kwater, Oct 13, 2009
    #7
  8. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    toronto
    regarding MHLLE all the stidies can't prove the existent cause of this phenomenon; please read here http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php more about this problem and studies were showing a diet problem.

    Can we get back to light, what should i do, obviously is too much. Do corals need more days for accomodating?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    qxcontinuum, Oct 13, 2009
    #8
  9. qxcontinuum

    yote Ceritfied Mantis Hunter Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    Messages:
    26,996
    Likes Received:
    3,868
    Location:
    Ringgold,Ga
    A protein skimmer completely removes dissolved organic waste from the water column.There by reducing the pollutants in the water.Removing these excess nutrients helps keep algae under control.ANY filtration is going to remove trace elements.
    Carbon is great.IF you got toxins in the water,medications (which should never be used in a reef tank),or hazy water.Some people use with good luck,others have it crash their tank.Again there are no 2 tanks that are alike.
    The reason your corals are not opening under the new light,is because you didnt acclimate those corals to the new light.But since you did all the research,you already knew that.
    You need to cut back on the new light to about 5 or 6 hours a day for about a week.Then after that add 15 to 30 minutes a day until the lights are back to 10 to 12 hours a day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    yote, Oct 13, 2009
    #9
  10. qxcontinuum

    Melosu58

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    197
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    As far as the lighting I am assuming this is a T5HO system and what size tank is this?
    As far as theGAC I use it a few days a month for water polishing purposes.
     
    Melosu58, Oct 13, 2009
    #10
  11. qxcontinuum

    daugherty part time reefer

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    11,166
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Location:
    Billings, MT USA
    you need to aclimate all the animals to the brighter light by shortining the photo period for a few days then slowly add for time to the lights you lights are by no means to bright but if you dont slowly indroduce the new brigth light it will make the symbotic alage in the coral to go into overdrive and kill the animal.
     
    daugherty, Oct 13, 2009
    #11
  12. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    toronto
    Hi again, yeas thank you, i've been doing that every since. I 've started the blue and red light in the beginning then like 4-5 hours daily the other 2 day light.
    I hope it'll be ok, the anemone is trying to get down rom the top were was before. She also need accomodation.
    I'll do some youtube videos step by step and show progressivly the quality of my tank in the next months.

    Filters are replaced in canisters weekly and 10 gallons of water out of 90 gallons is changed weekly as well.

    Kent marine trace elements is beeing added every two days and kent marine buffer. They are specifying every day but after measurements i've realized that there's no need for that since i do not have many coras yet
    The corals are feeded 3 times weekly with Kent marine microvert (microgreen)

    All the water analisys so far and the fish health is more than great. I have brine shrimp, and viamins, and flakes as menu and they are really good eaters.
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 14, 2009
    #12
  13. qxcontinuum

    daugherty part time reefer

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    11,166
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Location:
    Billings, MT USA
    switch the brine to mysis brn shrip is like you eating candy bars all day it is not very healthy for salt animals in the long run
     
    daugherty, Oct 14, 2009
    #13
  14. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    toronto
    ok i'll try that. My clown fishies are very picky with their food. i've been trying many stuff before seeing the brine shrimp are their favorites.

    The two clowns and 3 damseys as well as the live rocks i've got them from someone who got bored by his tank fish. he crushed corals were full of wormes but found out later that those worm are precious. Now i can see after everything set up againsome corals are coming out from the rocks. The rocks are full of tubular corals which one has been come out recently.
    I bought some mushies, and some corals experimental and see how they are going. I don't have much money to invest but easily i'lldo everything.
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 14, 2009
    #14
  15. qxcontinuum

    daugherty part time reefer

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    11,166
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Location:
    Billings, MT USA
    look for PE mysis shrimp and if the fish are a little pickey get some garlic to soak the food in and they will go crazy for it with the garlic
     
    daugherty, Oct 14, 2009
    #15
  16. qxcontinuum

    Bifferwine I am a girl

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Messages:
    46,915
    Likes Received:
    5,888
    Location:
    Lynnwood, WA and missing Tucson, AZ
    You know that article in your closed thread that you posted? The one that you claimed proved that metal halide lights killed coral? When in fact all the article said is that if you get strong lights, you need to gradually acclimate your tank inhabitants to that light? And the article gave you several ways to do this? And I said in no way did that article say metal halides kill corals, but that it gave basic advice about upgrading lights that is common knowledge in the hobby?

    How about you go back and read and *understand* what you yourself posted.
     
    Bifferwine, Oct 14, 2009
    #16
  17. qxcontinuum

    Bifferwine I am a girl

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Messages:
    46,915
    Likes Received:
    5,888
    Location:
    Lynnwood, WA and missing Tucson, AZ
    And about carbon vs. protein skimmers. You still have no idea what you're talking about.

    You should look at this website. Go back through all the issues of this magazine. Look at the "Tank of the Month" profiles.

    Reefkeeping Magazine

    Such as these:
    Tank of the Month - June 2008 - Reefkeeping.com
    Tank of the Month - August 2008 - Reefkeeping.com
    Tank of the Month - December 2008 - Reefkeeping.com
    Tank of the Month - November 2008 - Reefkeeping.com
    Tank of the Month - September 2008 - Reefkeeping.com
    Tank of the Month - July 2008 - Reefkeeping.com

    You can go back years through the issues if you like. Those are just links to the last few Tanks of the Month of 2008.

    Read through what those people use for lighting and filtration.

    What you're trying to tell me, is that all those people with world-class tanks, are doing it all wrong, and you know the secret?! How come, if they are using such awful equipment and reef keeping practices, do they have reef tanks that end up looking like that? They use protein skimmers. And metal halides.
     
    Bifferwine, Oct 14, 2009
    #17
  18. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    toronto
    that thread was saying that the ultraviolet radiation of metal halide kills corals. This is what i was pointing out. You must use a glass as filter between the light bulb and coral. (if i post the correct thred) i am rushing a lot and i only steal a few minutes of my time to post my ads.
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 14, 2009
    #18
  19. qxcontinuum

    bjohanson1234 .........

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    10,998
    Likes Received:
    1,102
    Location:
    Palos Heights, IL
    Awesome link there Biff, gonna bookmark it:Cheers:
     
    bjohanson1234, Oct 14, 2009
    #19
  20. qxcontinuum

    Bifferwine I am a girl

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Messages:
    46,915
    Likes Received:
    5,888
    Location:
    Lynnwood, WA and missing Tucson, AZ
    Umm no it's not what it said. I actually read it.

    And ccCapt explained how metal halide bulbs are engineered so that they emit very little to no UV radiation. Any metal halide lights you buy will come with glass built in. But you probably didn't read that either.
     
    Bifferwine, Oct 14, 2009
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.