Overdriving NO Tubes

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by Mort, Aug 21, 2003.

  1. Mort

    Mort Guest

    Is anyone here familiar with overdriving NO fluorescent tubes?

    I met a DIYer today (Marc, that's the guy I told you about with those5 stage
    RO/DI units) that does this to his lamps.

    Apparently you replace the balast with a higher output Electronic ballast
    (About $10 from home depot) and it can double even triple the wattage of the
    bulb. It operates at a higher frequency and does not shorten the life of
    the bulb much at all. He's had a setup with a twin 30w 36" fixture that
    with this balast is putting out 130watts after 1 year.

    Will this trickery work for marine aquaria and corals???

    ~Mort
     
    Mort, Aug 21, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. In article <vZ81b.10971$Ih1.4006300@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>,
    mort2fragu@NOSPAMameritech.net says...
    > Is anyone here familiar with overdriving NO fluorescent tubes?
    >
    > I met a DIYer today (Marc, that's the guy I told you about with those5 stage
    > RO/DI units) that does this to his lamps.
    >
    > Apparently you replace the balast with a higher output Electronic ballast
    > (About $10 from home depot) and it can double even triple the wattage of the
    > bulb. It operates at a higher frequency and does not shorten the life of
    > the bulb much at all. He's had a setup with a twin 30w 36" fixture that
    > with this balast is putting out 130watts after 1 year.
    >
    > Will this trickery work for marine aquaria and corals???
    >


    Yep, it works. I've done it. I think the jury is still out over
    whether it shortens the life of the bulb. However, even if it does it
    is still a lot cheaper than any alternative. The hardest part was
    hunting around to find 6500K 3' tubes.

    You find lots of info about how to do it on Reefcentral.com. Be careful
    with real electricity.

    Alex
     
    Alex Kilpatrick, Aug 21, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Mort

    Pszemol Guest

    "Alex Kilpatrick" <alex@NOSPAMkilpatrick.net>
    wrote in message news:MPG.19aeecb38a4432569897b3@news-server.austin.rr.com...
    > Yep, it works. I've done it.


    Have you measured the light output?
    What are your results compared to nominal wattage electronic balasts?

    I know going up with frequency (from magnetic to electronic) makes
    the difference, but I have never heard positive opinions about
    overdriving tubes powerwise.

    > The hardest part was hunting around to find 6500K 3' tubes.


    How is overdriving influencing the color rendering/temperature?
    Do you have any ways to measure effects of your changes at home?
     
    Pszemol, Aug 21, 2003
    #3
  4. Mort,

    VHO bulbs must be replaced every six months. So if you want to save some money,
    you can buy Sylvania or Philips 6500K bulbs at Home Depot or Lowes for ~$4.50
    each. Great price. IceCap ballasts will overdrive them from 40w to 110w each,
    but it will shorten their useable lifespan. In six months, their usefullness is
    over. But that is okay!! It's time to replace them anyway.

    If you don't change out your bulbs on schedule, you can end up with older bulbs
    that shift in color spectrum which fuel algae outbreaks.

    VHO - 6 months
    MH & PC - 12 months.

    Marc


    Mort wrote:

    > Is anyone here familiar with overdriving NO fluorescent tubes?
    >
    > I met a DIYer today (Marc, that's the guy I told you about with those5 stage
    > RO/DI units) that does this to his lamps.
    >
    > Apparently you replace the balast with a higher output Electronic ballast
    > (About $10 from home depot) and it can double even triple the wattage of the
    > bulb. It operates at a higher frequency and does not shorten the life of
    > the bulb much at all. He's had a setup with a twin 30w 36" fixture that
    > with this balast is putting out 130watts after 1 year.
    >
    > Will this trickery work for marine aquaria and corals???
    >
    > ~Mort


    --
    Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
    Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
    Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
     
    Marc Levenson, Aug 21, 2003
    #4
  5. Mort

    Pszemol Guest

    "Marc Levenson" <melev@swbell.net> wrote in message news:3F453770.CDC82CB0@swbell.net...
    > IceCap ballasts will overdrive them from 40w to 110w each, but it
    > will shorten their useable lifespan. In six months, their usefullness
    > is over. But that is okay!! It's time to replace them anyway.


    I do not understand the reasoning here... If you have to change bulbs
    every 6 months in their nominal working conditions, and overdriving
    is shortening their life significantly, then when you overdrive you need to
    replace them much more often to prevent color shifting and algae blums.
    What am I missing in this picture?
     
    Pszemol, Aug 21, 2003
    #5
  6. Richard Reynolds, Aug 21, 2003
    #6
  7. Mort

    Pszemol Guest

    "Richard Reynolds" <reynolds46@cox.net> wrote in message news:50b1b.6287$Qy4.1954@fed1read05...
    > > What am I missing in this picture?

    >
    > that MH is the way to go:)


    :))) of course...

    The best light output ratio. The best visual effects.
    But running extremely hot and initialy expensive :-(
     
    Pszemol, Aug 21, 2003
    #7
  8. Mort

    Pszemol Guest

    "Mort" <mort2fragu@NOSPAMameritech.net>
    wrote in message news:vZ81b.10971$Ih1.4006300@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
    > Apparently you replace the balast with a higher output Electronic ballast
    > (About $10 from home depot) and it can double even triple the wattage
    > of the bulb.


    Sounds good, but this will dramaticaly shorten the life of the bulb.
    And be careful talking about "the wattage of the bulb" - it can be misleading.

    > It operates at a higher frequency and does not shorten the life of
    > the bulb much at all. He's had a setup with a twin 30w 36" fixture
    > that with this balast is putting out 130watts after 1 year.


    What do you mean by "putting out 130 watts"?
    You rather say "consumes 130 watts". You do not measure the light
    output in watts. This is an electric not light output unit...
    The light efficiency of different light sources is different, and
    with given tube size and given amount of phosphors coating inside
    the tube by increasing twice or triple the amount of current flow
    you would rather increase the heat dissipation than ligth output.

    > Will this trickery work for marine aquaria and corals???


    In my personal opinion you should be very sceptical analysing
    stories like that. Experimenting with light in home environment,
    without sufficient electical and light measuring equipment could
    be very misleading and time/money consuming without good results.
    Let the professionals do their jobs. If GE or Philips could drive
    their bulbs with three times more light output they would do this
    to outcompete their rivals but there is reason they do not do this.

    And reasons are:
    - dramatic shortening bulb life
    - increased heat production in the fixture
    - lowered light efficiency
    (much lower amount of light produced from 1Watt of electricity)
    - color rendering change due to phosphor emitting color spectrum shifts
    - color temperature change due to the same spectrum shifts

    You decide. But in my opinion it is not worth it...
     
    Pszemol, Aug 21, 2003
    #8
  9. Mort

    Pszemol Guest

    "Teeb" <tlspencer@spinn.net> wrote in message news:vkaf3jb51kg391@corp.supernews.com...
    > You're only paying $4.50 a bulb instead of more than $30.. (a couple VHO
    > bulbs I saw recently were over $50) and since the $30+ bulbs have to be
    > changed out just as often... there's the reasoning.


    Just as often? You mean how often?
    Who has proven that? Have you measured light spectrum
    of that overdriven tube? How do you know when to change it?

    You pay $4.50 for a tube which gives really unknown spectrum.
    Most likely with cheap phosphors giving only what is needed
    to light the office space... Manufacturer of these tubes do
    not care about the spectrum and what waves of light does the
    tube really emit and how does it change over time...
    You will replace it normally when it stops working or starts
    flickering with red glow at the end :) Nobody cares of the
    colors spectrum over their desks in the office or shop.

    If you were to replace two tubes twice a year, $30 each it would be $120.
    Are the savings worth playing over a year? And you do not know what you
    really get while saving money this way... You risk producing wrong light
    spectrum and promoting algae grow. The spectrum change mostly, not the
    intensity decrease is the reason behind the recommendation for changing
    tubes every 6 months...

    > That is one more reason
    > I haven't upgraded my lighting system.. I could *probably* convince hubby
    > that the initial outlay of over $400 for my 48" tank would be a good
    > investment because then it could be a really cool full blown reef tank..


    Full blown reef in four-footer for $400 ? You must be kidding me...

    > but
    > having to replace expensive bulbs so often would get tiresome really quickly
    > for the time being.


    If you are concerned with long-term savings the MH are the way to go for you.

    > I might just have to look into this myself.... what kind
    > of fixtures can you use those ballasts in? And are there any step by step
    > instructions anywhere? Would it be possible to convert the shoplight fixture
    > I am already using? Or would I have to build a light hood.. I am very
    > comfortable working with electricity and MY small workshop in the garage so
    > I am sure it is something I could handle.. I just gotta see how it's done...
    > :)


    Go to any Home Depot and take a closer look at the fluorescent balasts shelf.
    You will find "replacement balasts" for many different types of tubes...
    They mostly come with installation instructions in the box to tell you
    wiring or if they require grounded metal reflector to work with the tube
    starting or not, etc... But I would rather not do this for a display tank.
    Macroalgae refugium? maybe... but not the display tank with corals.
     
    Pszemol, Aug 22, 2003
    #9
  10. Mort

    Mort Guest

    Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that someone
    he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that
    fixture "was clocked at 130watts"

    So anyway... Naturally I have questions about this and that is why I am
    here ;)

    ~Mort
     
    Mort, Aug 22, 2003
    #10
  11. Mort

    > Guest

    P(in watts) = I(amps) * E(volts)

    P
    --------
    I * E

    Light is measured in lumens, watts is a measure of power consumed.

    It gets real tricky though if you try to convert any of these measurements
    to BTU's (British Thermal Units)

    JOhn :)

    "Mort" <NOlordmort@SPAMsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:nJd1b.11099$Ih1.4063895@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
    > Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that

    someone
    > he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that
    > fixture "was clocked at 130watts"
    >
    > So anyway... Naturally I have questions about this and that is why I am
    > here ;)
    >
    > ~Mort
    >
    >
    >
     
    >, Aug 22, 2003
    #11
  12. Mort

    Acrylics Guest

    >Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that someone
    >he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that
    >fixture "was clocked at 130watts"


    Yeah well according to my clock - it's time to get the shovel out :)
    IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe
    spectrum shift.
    I tried it a year or two ago - I started with Phillips 6500k bulbs from Home
    Depot, I used PFO electronic VHO ballasts to overdrive them. The output was
    much brighter than normal but the color was nearly green. I didn't wait around
    long enough to see what the lifespan of the bulbs would eventually be.
    Needless to say I put my URI bulbs back in. I think King Marc & I gabbed about
    this a little while back, his experiences were a little different though. It
    could have been he was using a different ballast - can't remember (gettin' old
    ;)

    James
     
    Acrylics, Aug 22, 2003
    #12
  13. Pszemol wrote:

    > I do not understand the reasoning here... If you have to change bulbs
    > every 6 months in their nominal working conditions, and overdriving
    > is shortening their life significantly, then when you overdrive you need to
    > replace them much more often to prevent color shifting and algae blums.
    > What am I missing in this picture?


    You are missing the dollar signs.

    When I had 3 VHO bulbs on my tank, each one cost me $25 or more. By replacing the one
    Daylight VHO with a Daylight NO, I saved $20 every 6 months, or $40 a year.

    Marc



    --
    Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
    Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
    Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
     
    Marc Levenson, Aug 22, 2003
    #13
  14. Pszemol, why do your responses seem so aggressive? We're all friends here, as far as I
    know.

    Read on....

    Pszemol wrote:

    > Just as often? You mean how often?


    VHO have to be replaced every 6 months.

    > Who has proven that? Have you measured light spectrum
    > of that overdriven tube? How do you know when to change it?


    I have not measured the spectrum. I know to replace my bulbs systematically every 6
    months.

    > You pay $4.50 for a tube which gives really unknown spectrum.


    Not true. The packaging specifically states 6500K - Philips or Sylvania. Look for
    yourself.

    > Most likely with cheap phosphors giving only what is needed
    > to light the office space...


    These are not office lighting fluorescents. Those come by the case, or individually.
    These 6500K only come individually wrapped in a green or blue covering.

    > Manufacturer of these tubes do
    > not care about the spectrum and what waves of light does the
    > tube really emit and how does it change over time...


    Really? So they make stuff up? Does Ushio do the same? Who tells the truth and who lies?

    > You will replace it normally when it stops working or starts
    > flickering with red glow at the end :) Nobody cares of the
    > colors spectrum over their desks in the office or shop.


    We replace them on schedule. And every time I've done it, the bulb still "looked" fine but
    I knew it was done.

    > If you were to replace two tubes twice a year, $30 each it would be $120.
    > Are the savings worth playing over a year?


    Yes, the savings is worth it, and numerous folks are doing this successfully.

    > And you do not know what you
    > really get while saving money this way... You risk producing wrong light
    > spectrum and promoting algae grow.


    I've had no algae issues, as you know from reading my posts here daily.

    > The spectrum change mostly, not the
    > intensity decrease is the reason behind the recommendation for changing
    > tubes every 6 months...


    Exactly. We don't replace them because they die. We do because the spectrum has been used
    up and will shift soon.

    > Full blown reef in four-footer for $400 ? You must be kidding me...


    Lighting? Yes, $400 or more. I remember a nice lady in our group that paid well over $600
    for her MH setup. But there are ways to find it for less, and many do. I've watched one
    vendor on Ebay for a year but never bought the setup offered daily. I ended up buying mine
    from a guy on Reef Central, and am delighted to see them finally installed on my 4' reef.

    > If you are concerned with long-term savings the MH are the way to go for you.


    Hmmm.

    > Go to any Home Depot and take a closer look at the fluorescent balasts shelf.
    > You will find "replacement balasts" for many different types of tubes...
    > They mostly come with installation instructions in the box to tell you
    > wiring or if they require grounded metal reflector to work with the tube
    > starting or not, etc... But I would rather not do this for a display tank.
    > Macroalgae refugium? maybe... but not the display tank with corals.


    Or buy an IceCap ballast designed for VHO or MH setups. They contain the wiring diagram as
    well. The ballasts at Home Depot support Mercury Vapor, and NO lighting. If there was one
    for VHO or T5's, you can bet it would have been posted to death on RC and here.

    Marc



    --
    Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
    Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
    Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
     
    Marc Levenson, Aug 22, 2003
    #14
  15. parts sniped cause i can :)

    > > Just as often? You mean how often?

    >
    > VHO have to be replaced every 6 months.


    and my MH's get replaced either when I break them or 1 year whichever comes 3rd:)

    > > Who has proven that? Have you measured light spectrum
    > > of that overdriven tube? How do you know when to change it?

    >
    > I have not measured the spectrum. I know to replace my bulbs systematically every 6
    > months.


    now I am jumping in here but I thought that was refering to cheaper bulbs being overdriven
    are you sure they still last 6 months ?? I am not totally convinced though I dont use them
    anymore :) or has this part of the topic changed faster than I have kept up:)

    > > You pay $4.50 for a tube which gives really unknown spectrum.

    >
    > Not true. The packaging specifically states 6500K - Philips or Sylvania. Look for
    > yourself.


    it states 6500K but is that the only spectrum peak or just the strongest, or even worse
    the chosen one of 2 or 3
    ive seen the bulb and its sparked some interest, but not much for me now:)


    > > Manufacturer of these tubes do
    > > not care about the spectrum and what waves of light does the
    > > tube really emit and how does it change over time...

    >
    > Really? So they make stuff up? Does Ushio do the same? Who tells the truth and who

    lies?

    made up, probibly not, but you have to know by now that many makers twist data to make
    there items look better than the next guy

    > > If you were to replace two tubes twice a year, $30 each it would be $120.
    > > Are the savings worth playing over a year?

    >
    > Yes, the savings is worth it, and numerous folks are doing this successfully.


    damn thats more than my MH bulbs when they last a full year:) course when i break them
    they dont last as long :)
    which brings me to a whole other point, did you know you cant stand on a MH bulb???

    > > If you are concerned with long-term savings the MH are the way to go for you.

    >
    > Hmmm.


    didnt you just switch to MH bulbs on one of your tanks ???

    > Marc


    --
    Richard Reynolds
    Richard.Reynolds@usa.net
     
    Richard Reynolds, Aug 22, 2003
    #15
  16. Richard Reynolds wrote:

    > now I am jumping in here but I thought that was refering to cheaper bulbs being overdriven
    > are you sure they still last 6 months ??


    Yep, the work just fine for 6 months. I never got a sudden algae outbreak, and when I
    switched to a new set the tank did not react with a bloom as I was expecting.

    > it states 6500K but is that the only spectrum peak or just the strongest, or even worse
    > the chosen one of 2 or 3 ive seen the bulb and its sparked some interest, but not much for
    > me now:)


    It states 6500K. That is the color spectrum of that bulb.

    > >made up, probibly not, but you have to know by now that many makers twist data to make

    > there items look better than the next guy


    Yes, but some things can't be fudged. They can't say this bulb reduces algae or anything.
    They state what color to expect. I think that would be a reasonably honest thing to do.

    > didnt you just switch to MH bulbs on one of your tanks ???


    Yep, 2 x 175w 10,000K with two 110w URI actinic VHO bulbs. No more cheap daylight bulbs for
    me now. :(

    Marc


    --
    Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
    Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
    Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
     
    Marc Levenson, Aug 22, 2003
    #16
  17. Mort

    Boomer Guest

    "IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe
    spectrum shift."

    Yes it does Jim and it also greatly increases internal bulb pressure. Increasing bulb
    pressure alone increases output, as the argon gas pressure increases, due to added heat
    and overdrive
    --
    Boomer

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ?
    Please Join Our Growing Membership
    www.coralrealm.com

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
    "Acrylics" <acrylics@aol.comatose> wrote in message
    news:20030821213503.21660.00001927@mb-m07.aol.com...
    : >Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that someone
    : >he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that
    : >fixture "was clocked at 130watts"
    :
    : Yeah well according to my clock - it's time to get the shovel out :)
    : IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe
    : spectrum shift.
    : I tried it a year or two ago - I started with Phillips 6500k bulbs from Home
    : Depot, I used PFO electronic VHO ballasts to overdrive them. The output was
    : much brighter than normal but the color was nearly green. I didn't wait around
    : long enough to see what the lifespan of the bulbs would eventually be.
    : Needless to say I put my URI bulbs back in. I think King Marc & I gabbed about
    : this a little while back, his experiences were a little different though. It
    : could have been he was using a different ballast - can't remember (gettin' old
    : ;)
    :
    : James
     
    Boomer, Aug 22, 2003
    #17
  18. Mort

    Boomer Guest

    meaning Fluro's are filled with Argon gas, the purpose for it in these bulbs is to become
    heated and increase the gas pressure. Gas pressure = more lumens / watt.. In MH, MV, HPS
    and LPS it is used for the same thing, but some of it also get ionized and adds to the
    light spectrum, so it is a duel purpose in these bulbs. And to much pressure can make the
    bulbs go Kaboom, such as screwing a 175 watt into a 250 and a 400 for sure.

    --
    Boomer

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ?
    Please Join Our Growing Membership
    www.coralrealm.com

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
    "Boomer" <wcwing@chartermi.net> wrote in message news:vkc5db7n614p26@corp.supernews.com...
    : "IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe
    : spectrum shift."
    :
    : Yes it does Jim and it also greatly increases internal bulb pressure. Increasing bulb
    : pressure alone increases output, as the argon gas pressure increases, due to added heat
    : and overdrive.
    : --
    : Boomer
    :
    : Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    : http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
    :
    : Want to See More ?
    : Please Join Our Growing Membership
    : www.coralrealm.com
    :
    : If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
    : "Acrylics" <acrylics@aol.comatose> wrote in message
    : news:20030821213503.21660.00001927@mb-m07.aol.com...
    : : >Well, I admit I do not know this man very well, but he claims that someone
    : : >he knows has a device that measures the light output and he said that
    : : >fixture "was clocked at 130watts"
    : :
    : : Yeah well according to my clock - it's time to get the shovel out :)
    : : IME, overdriving NO tubes does increase intensity but it also causes a severe
    : : spectrum shift.
    : : I tried it a year or two ago - I started with Phillips 6500k bulbs from Home
    : : Depot, I used PFO electronic VHO ballasts to overdrive them. The output was
    : : much brighter than normal but the color was nearly green. I didn't wait around
    : : long enough to see what the lifespan of the bulbs would eventually be.
    : : Needless to say I put my URI bulbs back in. I think King Marc & I gabbed about
    : : this a little while back, his experiences were a little different though. It
    : : could have been he was using a different ballast - can't remember (gettin' old
    : : ;)
    : :
    : : James
    :
    :
     
    Boomer, Aug 22, 2003
    #18
  19. Mort

    Pszemol Guest

    "Marc Levenson" <melev@swbell.net> wrote in message news:3F45ACAF.2FF0FB1B@swbell.net...
    > Pszemol, why do your responses seem so aggressive?
    > We're all friends here, as far as I know.


    What is so aggressive in my responses ?
    Disagreeing is not a sign of aggression.
    Friends can disagree and it does not affect the friendship.
    At least in my opinion...
    If I see a friend attempting to do something stupid
    I smack him in the forehead before he hurts himself ;-)
    No aggression intended.

    > Read on....
    >
    > Pszemol wrote:
    >
    > > Just as often? You mean how often?

    >
    > VHO have to be replaced every 6 months.


    But we are not talking about VHO, right?
    We are talking about overdriven NO tubes.
    Who has measured here the spectrum changing over time
    given by the overdriven NO tubes? I asked Alex for his
    experiences but no response. Obviously, he did not test anything.
    Proper lab equipment to make these test is not easly accessible.
    This is the reason we need to trust the menufacturer in that matter.

    > > Who has proven that? Have you measured light spectrum
    > > of that overdriven tube? How do you know when to change it?

    >
    > I have not measured the spectrum.
    > I know to replace my bulbs systematically every 6 months.


    What is the original source of this "6 months" value?
    How this derived from? Notice - I do not disagree with a need
    to replace VHO every 6 months - I just stated overdriving NO tube
    does not make it VHO tube. VHO have different design than NO.

    > > You pay $4.50 for a tube which gives really unknown spectrum.

    >
    > Not true. The packaging specifically states 6500K - Philips or Sylvania.
    > Look for yourself.


    Last time I check there was only info about the spectrum with
    normally driven tubes. Not for overdriven ones...

    > > Most likely with cheap phosphors giving only what is needed
    > > to light the office space...

    >
    > These are not office lighting fluorescents. Those come by the case, or individually.
    > These 6500K only come individually wrapped in a green or blue covering.


    OK - the question is: is it still really 6500K when overdriven?
    How is the spectrum change with overdriving the tube?
    Do you know that and can asure us that nothing changes except the intensity?

    > > Manufacturer of these tubes do
    > > not care about the spectrum and what waves of light does the
    > > tube really emit and how does it change over time...

    >
    > Really? So they make stuff up? Does Ushio do the same? Who tells the truth and who lies?


    Compare phosphors and spectrums of the tubes dedicated to aquarium usage.

    > > You will replace it normally when it stops working or starts
    > > flickering with red glow at the end :) Nobody cares of the
    > > colors spectrum over their desks in the office or shop.

    >
    > We replace them on schedule.
    > And every time I've done it, the bulb still "looked" fine but
    > I knew it was done.


    You are the special one :)
    In my office they change tubes when they stop working.
    And this is not the only office they do this.

    > > If you were to replace two tubes twice a year, $30 each it would be $120.
    > > Are the savings worth playing over a year?

    >
    > Yes, the savings is worth it, and numerous folks are doing this successfully.


    OK.

    > > And you do not know what you
    > > really get while saving money this way... You risk producing wrong light
    > > spectrum and promoting algae grow.

    >
    > I've had no algae issues, as you know from reading my posts here daily.


    Was it to contradict opinion about wrong spectrum promoting algae grow?
    Or maybe to contradict opinion that overdriven tubes change the spectrum?

    > > The spectrum change mostly, not the
    > > intensity decrease is the reason behind the recommendation for changing
    > > tubes every 6 months...

    >
    > Exactly. We don't replace them because they die.
    > We do because the spectrum has been used
    > up and will shift soon.


    I agree. So how can you know when to change overdriven tubes?

    > > Full blown reef in four-footer for $400 ? You must be kidding me...

    >
    > Lighting?


    I understood everything for 400. Not lighting - ok.

    > > If you are concerned with long-term savings the MH are the way to go for you.

    >
    > Hmmm.


    Disagree?
     
    Pszemol, Aug 22, 2003
    #19
  20. Mort

    Pszemol Guest

    "Mort" <NOlordmort@SPAMsbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:Bfg1b.11177$Ih1.4097275@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
    > > P(in watts) = I(amps) * E(volts)
    > >
    > > P
    > > --------
    > > I * E
    > >
    > > Light is measured in lumens, watts is a measure of power consumed.
    > >
    > > It gets real tricky though if you try to convert any of these measurements
    > > to BTU's (British Thermal Units)
    > >
    > > JOhn :)

    >
    > Not really, there are 3.413 BTUs per watt.
    >
    > I was wondering if someone was gonna bust out ohms law =)


    I am affraid you are missing the energy conversion ration
    from electricity to heat/light. Machines to do the conversion
    (bulbs in case of light) are not perfect, and they loose
    a lot of electric energy to produce useless heat. Teen percent
    of electricity is converted to light by the standard incadescent
    bulb. The rest, over 80% is exchanged to heat. Check the fluorescent
    tubes manufacturers data on the NO and VHO tubes. They differ, but
    roughly they not give you more then 30% of light out of electicity.
    The rest ot electricity is heat again. Wasted while dissipated into air.
    So be careful calculating things - adding efficiency of conversion
    makes calculations not so easy anymore...
    The change of balast from 60W to 130W for the same tube does not
    tell you ANYTHING about the amount of light this tube will provide.
     
    Pszemol, Aug 22, 2003
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.