Overflow Box I made(Keeps Siphon)

[Ulta]

Ok, So I made an attempt on a DIY overflow box. And I have to say I'm pretty impressed so far with the end result. But I would like to go over with you my design and some things I would like to point out.

Here is the design I started with:

And here are some pics of my box :D

Now I want to explain a few things, using 4 points:

First off I would like to say I was amazed when I first tried it out. Why? Because when I stopped the flow the siphon didn't break! That is awesome, because I always figured the siphon would break in an even such as power outage.

Let me explain a few things that I figured out that I think you should know if trying to build one of these:

How to make it so the Siphon doesn't break:
- Point A has to be lower than point B.
- Point B has to be lower than point C.

This will cause both tubes to be continuously be submerged under water, even when flow stops!

Determining flow rate:

Now disreguarding the obvious maximum flow for the size tubing you use....

- The further below the Water Line point C is, the more flow you will have. (This is because gravity will cause the siphon to pull more water faster)

That is all :)

I just think its fantastic that an overflow box can keep siphon. So I thought I would share what I found and what makes it keep siphon. It was a mere fluke that I did it this way myself >.< This should help a lot and not overflow quite as much into the sump during an outage.

 

[coolhandgoose]

Nice work.

 

[Bifferwine]

So the siphon doesn't break when the power goes out? Does that mean that your sump will overflow? It will eventually break because the return pump won't be pushing water back to the tank and the water level will drop below the top of your overflow box. Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[coolhandgoose]

The sump shouldn't overflow if the power goes out and it's setup properly. When the pump stops pumping up, the water will continue to siphon out of the DT until the water level reaches the bottom of the tubing for the sump on the outside box(make sense?). Since the siphon hose is below the water line in both boxes, when the pump starts again the water will just start siphoning as per normal since the water doesn't leave the siphon tube thereby keeping the siphon.

 

[BL1]

Looks like a great DIY, how long have you been using it?

 

[Bifferwine]

Ah okay, thanks for the explanation Goose.

 

[coolhandgoose]

Glad it made sense, I had to read my own explanation a few times :)

 

[Ulta]

Yes, the return pump is what is pumping the water back into the tank. Once the return pump stops pumping(power outage) then the water will stop flowing into the overflow box. B/c it can't enter the box below the holes drilled. So the flow will stop when the water level of the tank gets below the holes on the overflow box. (which shouldn't take very long)

And no I haven't been using it yet =(. I am still building my sump :/

All this is just testing in the kitchen sink xD But as you can see the pics show it holding siphon ^_^

It will still be a few days before my sump tank is all dried and ready for the real test.

 

[Ulta]

the water will continue to siphon out of the DT until the water level reaches the bottom of the tubing for the sump on the outside box

hehe, you were close! IT actually only will drain down to the bottom of the holes I drilled on the inside box ^_^ So the DT won't lose many gallons at all, maybe just a few!

I will test it though when I get my sump ready and see how much exactly.

 

[SeaBee]

eh Hem, did you use stainless steel screws? Nice work. Why not just buy one I'm wondering?

 

[Ulta]

hehe, I actually went through a lot of trial and error with the plastic. Both cutting and adhering. I ended up just using a lot of silicon. I started with rivets(that is the metal you see) But I would not recommend that, They did not turn out well b/c the first one I used broke the plastic. I just resorted back to the silicon, with 2 rivets barely tight. They won't be submerged in water so I don't worry.

It does look pretty redneck lol. But I would rather build something myself for the satisfaction and knowledge of how to do it and how it works....

I'm sure if I had to do it again I could make it a lot "cleaner" lol.... That is why I post my trials ;)

 

[SeaBee]

Use stainless screws and blind nuts at the Depot or hardware store, all else fails try a Marine store, you got lake in Michigan right? Lol. j/k.

Oh. I used what I thought were stianless screws and they too are not in the water, still starting to rust. Put a divider in your outside part between the U tube and the drain bulkhead, it will keep your siphon as well.

 

[ccCapt]

I'm all for DIY, in fact I don't know if anyone here has more DIY stuff on their system than I do. But, IMO there are some things that are better to buy already manufactured...and a HOB overflow box is 1. I would NEVER trust that on my system. Think about how much damage a flood can cause as compared to what you would spend actually buying something that is known to be reliable.

When you get around to testing that, you will see it's going to have a slow flow rate. Real overflows have slots cut where you have holes. You don't have alot of holes either from what I can tell. Algae will accumulate there. What happens when the holes you have get a layer of algae growing and the flow is cut down...even just a little? The pump won't slow down.
Your u-tube, while I give you an A for effort, is really sad looking. It looks like anything but a smooth path for water flow and a good spot for some algae growth, which again will slow down the flow.

I would never discourage anyone from doing anything DIY, but I personally would not use that as is.

 

[SeaBee]

I had a nudi stuck in my u tube the other day....I noticed the return low on water and I panicked thinking a leak, then I noticed the water level was real hibh in my tank, and there he was, eating the algea in the u tube slowing things down just enough....

 

[coolhandgoose]

hehe, you were close! IT actually only will drain down to the bottom of the holes I drilled on the inside box ^_^ So the DT won't lose many gallons at all, maybe just a few!

I will test it though when I get my sump ready and see how much exactly.

That's what I meant :)

It's hard to describe, much easier to just see it in action. Pictures speak 1000 words.

 

[Solarfall]

Those holes probably won't keep up with your return pump. My overflow box is DIY too, but I went through about 3 before I got a design that worked well.

 

[Ulta]

Those holes probably won't keep up with your return pump. My overflow box is DIY too, but I went through about 3 before I got a design that worked well.

IC, yea it seems like first attempt is a lot of trial and error lol. Figuring stuff out. I prolly should have gone with a proven/tested lots of times, step by step, full proof plan from you-tube or something. But meh, the materials only cost about $10-$20 about 1/10 of the cost to buy one from marine depot or something ^_^.


I know people like to criticize my box, but I didn't post it up b/c Its pretty, in fact its far from lol. But to point out the key things like how to make it keep siphon, and difference in flow rate are things I would like people to pull away from this not criticizing the materials I used. I know I could have made it look much nicer... But the fact that it works what matters to me. And if I were to build another I would prolly do it right (They sell $5 U-Tubes online that work better than the tubing I used.). They didn't even sell a lot of the materials I would have like to have used at local hardware stores so I had to improvise a bit. For next time, since I understand exactly what I would need and what works well with what I would definitely use different materials (Even if it meant having them ordered)

But this one does work and I will be testing it when my sump is finished :mrgreen:

 

[Solarfall]

Not trying to discourage you from DIY but just pointing out a few flaws in your design.

Those holes will NOT drain enough water. My first design had 3 rows of 3/8" holes and it couldn't even keep up with a 300 GPH pump.
And that single U-Tube definetly won't drain fast enough either. You could put 2 or 3 more on there, depending on your return pump, but a single one probably won't keep up with more than 150 GPH.
Here's a few pics of mine. It just barely keeps up with about 600 GPH after head loss.

Note i have the check valves on the ends of the syphon tubing. I also have them submersed just incase they somehow fail.

I also tried cutting slots in the specimen cup with a Dremel to feed the water in, but it ended up looking horrible. So I just cut out squares and put eggcrate there to keep fish out. The Dremel thing could've probably worked if I had a better fitting and I was more careful though.

Also note I'm using two 1" diameter PVC pipes for U-tubes. Much bigger than that nylon tubing and it still BARELY keeps up with my return pump.

I've also got 2 drains drilled out of the bottom of the outside cup. I probably could've just used one 1" rather than the two 3/4" but I only had the 3/4" hole saw.

So depending on what return pump you plan on using, you still have work to do on it. And honestly, I would rather see you just buy one off craigslist or something. The only reason I worked so hard on this was because I already had all the stuff for it. Otherwise, I probably would've bought one.

 

[cthegame]

the ciphon wont break as long as both end of the Utube remain in water, so water levels in the box needs to remain, even with pumps off. Your design looks good, but the overflowbox i have holds more water and the utube is in deeper so i feel more secure...

Your Utube looks very unstable. I would not risk that tube, it wouldnt take much for it to get clogged up and then you have yourself a nice flood. Look into getting a real utube,,,they are cheap.

Overall i agree with capt, your box could work but when it comes to something so vital, i would just buy one...

 

[ccCapt]

But meh, the materials only cost about $10-$20 about 1/10 of the cost to buy one from marine depot or something ^_^.

Again, I would never discourage a DIY project, but you could get an Eshopps overflow rated for 800 gph for $66. You just have to decide if you can trust what you made.
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