Per Request-All About Vaccines Issues and Vaccinations

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by KarenJax, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. KarenJax

    KarenJax Certified Master Stylist

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    A few people from here have pmed me and asked about pet vaccines we were discussing on sen's thread about his dog's injury and the cost associated thereof. This is part of the reading and research I've done on the subject.
    Enjoy!!! Remember our pets rely on US to make informed choices for their sake.

    Permission granted by Dr. W. Jean Dodds to post and repost this article.[/color]

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    ALL ABOUT VACCINE ISSUES & VACCINATIONS* W. Jean Dodds, DVM 1 and Ronald D. Schultz, PhD 2

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    There is little doubt that application of modern vaccine technology has permitted us to protect companion animals effectively against serious infectious diseases. Today, we can question conventional vaccine regimens and adopt effective and safe alternatives primarily because the risk of disease has been significantly reduced by the widespread use of vaccination programs, which convey underlying population or herd immunity.

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    For many veterinary practitioners canine vaccination programs have been “practice management tools” rather than medical procedures. Thus, it is not surprising that attempts to change the vaccines and vaccination programs based on scientific information have created significant controversy. A “more is better” philosophy still prevails with regard to pet vaccines.

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    Annual vaccination has been and remains the single most important reason why most pet owners bring their pets for an annual or more often “wellness visit.” Another reason for the reluctance to change current vaccination programs is many practitioners really don’t understand the principles of vaccinal immunity. Clearly, the accumulated evidence indicates that vaccination protocols should no longer be considered as a “one size fits all” program.

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    Giving annual boosters when they are not necessary has the client paying for a service which is likely to be of little benefit to the pet’s existing level of protection against these infectious diseases. It also increases the risk of adverse reactions from the repeated exposure to foreign substances.

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    So, have veterinarians really embraced the national policies on vaccination guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Association, American Veterinary Medical Association and Academy of Feline Practitioners? Does the public trust veterinarians to be up-to-date on these issues or are they unsure? Do they believe veterinarians have a conflict of interest if they seek the income from annual booster vaccinations? Given current media attention to vaccination issues, the public is more aware and worried about vaccine safety.

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    Some veterinarians today still tell their clients there is no scientific evidence linking vaccinations with adverse effects and serious illness. This is ignorance, and confuses an impressionable client. On the other hand, vaccine zealots abound with hysteria and misinformation. None of these polarized views is helpful.

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    Further, veterinarians are still routinely vaccinating ill dogs and those with chronic diseases or prior adverse vaccine reactions. This is especially problematic for rabies boosters, as many colleagues believe they have no legal alternative, even though the product label states it's intended for healthy animals. For more information, see Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund

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    Alternatives to Current Vaccine Practices

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    1) measuring serum antibody titers; 2) avoidance of unnecessary vaccines or over vaccinating; 3) caution in vaccinating sick or febrile individuals; and 4) tailoring a specific minimal vaccination protocol for dogs of breeds or families known to be at increased risk for adverse reactions. 5) considerations include starting the vaccination series later, such as at nine or ten weeks of age when the immune system is better able to handle antigenic challenge; 6) alerting the caregiver to pay particular attention to the puppy’s behavior and overall health after the second or subsequent boosters; and 7) avoiding revaccination of individuals already experiencing a significant adverse event. Littermates of affected puppies should be closely monitored after receiving additional vaccines in a puppy series, as they too are at higher risk.

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    Some Frequently Asked Questions – Some questions are part of the Guidelines for Vaccination of Dogs and Cats compiled by the Vaccine Guidelines Group (VGG) of the World Small Animal Veterinary Association (WSAVA)

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    Q. Do dogs competing in agility or other events need more vaccines for protection than other pet dogs? A.
    No, although if the event location has an exposure risk for Leptospirosis or Lyme disease , annual vaccination for these diseases should be considered.

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    Q. Is there risk of overvaccinating with vaccines not needed for a specific animal? A. Yes. Vaccines contain material designed to challenge the immune system of the pet, and so can cause adverse reactions. They should not be given needlessly, and should be tailered to the pet’s individual needs.

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    Q. Are the initial series of puppy core vaccines immunosuppressive? A. Yes. This period of immunosuppression from MLV canine distemper and hepatitis vaccines coincides with the time of vaccine-induced viremia, from days 3 to 10 after vaccination.

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    Q. Can anesthetized patients be vaccinated? A. This is not preferred, because a hypersensitivity reaction with vomiting and aspiration could occur and anesthetic agents can be immunomodulating.

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    Q. Is it safe to vaccinate pregnant pets? A. Absolutely not.

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    Q. Should pets with immunosuppressive diseases such as cancer or autoimmune diseases, or adverse vaccine reactions/ hypersensitibvity receive booster vaccinations? A. No. Vaccination with MLV products should be avoided as the vaccine virus may cause disease; vaccination with killed products may aggravate the immune-mediated disease or be ineffective. For rabies boosters that are due, local authorities may accept titers instead or accept a letter from your veterinarian.

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    Q. If an animal receives immunosuppressive therapy, how long afterwards can the pet safely be vaccinated? A. Wait at least 2 weeks.

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    Q. Should vaccines be given more often than 2 weeks apart even if a different vaccine is being given? A. No. The safest and most effective interval is 3-4 weeks apart.

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    Q. At what age should the last vaccine dose be given in the puppy series? A. The last dose of vaccine should be given between 14-16 weeks regardless of the number of doses given prior to this age. Rabies vaccine should preferably be given separately as late as possible under the law (e.g. 16-24 weeks).

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    Q. Should the new canine influenza vaccine be given routinely? A. No. It is intended primarily for pounds and shelters and high density boarding facilities, as nose-to-nose contact and crowding promote viral transmission.

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    Q. Can intranasal Bordetella vaccine be given parenterally (injected)? A. No. The vaccine can cause a severe local reaction and may even kill the pet.

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    Q. Will a killed parenteral Bordetella vaccine given intranasally produce immunity? A. No.

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    Q. Are homeopathic nosodes capable of immunizing pets? A. No. There is no scientific documentation that nosodes protect against infectious diseases of pets. The one parvovirus nosode trial conducted years ago did not protect against challenge.

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    Q. Should disinfectant be used at the vaccine injection site? A. No. Disinfectants could inactivate a MLV product.

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    Q. Can vaccines cause autoimmune diseases? A. Vaccines themselves do not cause these diseases, but they can trigger autoimmune responses followed by disease in genetically predisposed animals, as can any infection, drug, or chemical / toxic exposures etc.

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    Q. Can a single vaccine dose provide any benefit to the dog? Will it benefit the canine population? A. Yes. One dose of a MLV canine core vaccine should provide long term immunity when given to animals at or after 16 weeks of age. Every puppy 16 weeks of age or older should receive at least one dose of the MLV core vaccines. We need to vaccinate more animals in the population with core vaccines to achieve herd immunity and thereby prevent epidemic outbreaks. Q. If an animal receives only the first dose of a vaccine that needs two doses to immunize, will it have immunity? A. No. A single dose of a two-dose vaccine like Leptospirosis vaccine will not provide immunity. The first dose is for priming the immune system. The second for boosting the immunity has to be given within 6 weeks; otherwise the series has to start over again. After those two doses, revaccination with a single dose can be done at any time. Q. Can maternally derived antibodies (MDA) also block immunity to killed vaccines and prevent active immunization with MLV vaccines? A.Yes. MDA can block certain killed vaccines, especially those that require two doses to immunize. With MLV vaccines, two doses are often recommended, particularly in young animals, to be sure one is given beyond the neutralizing period of MDA. Q. How long after vaccination does an animal develop immunity that will prevent severe disease when the core vaccines are used? A. This is dependent on the animal, the vaccine, and the disease.

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    · The fastest immunity is provided by canine distemper virus (CDV) vaccines -- MLV and recombinant canarypox virus vectored. The immune response starts within mins - hrs and provides protection within a day without interference from MDA. · Immunity to canine parvovirus (CPV-2) develops after 3-5 days when an effective MLV vaccine is used. · Canine adenovirus-2/hepatitis (CAV-2) MLV given parenterally provides immunity against CAV-1 in 5 to 7 days.

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    Q. Can dogs be “non-responders” and fail to develop an immune response to vaccines? A Yes. This is a genetic characteristic seen particularly in some breeds or dog families. Boosting them regularly will not produce measurable antibody. Some of these animals may be protected against disease by their cell-mediated and secretory immunity.

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    Q. Are there parvovirus and distemper virus field mutants that are not adequately protected by current MLV vaccines? A. No. All the current CPV-2 and CDV vaccines provide protection from all known viral isolates, when tested experimentally as well as in the field. The current CPV-2 and CPV-2b vaccines provide both short and long term protection from challenge by the CPV-2c variant.

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    Q. Are serum antibody titres useful in determining vaccine immunity? A. Yes. They are especially useful for CDV, CPV-2 and CAV-1 in the dog, FPV in the cat, and rabies virus in the cat and dog. Rabies titers, however, are often not acceptable to exempt individual animals from mandated rabies boosters in spite of medical justifcation. Serum antibody titers are of limited or no value for (many of) the other vaccines.

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    1 President, Hemopet, 938 Stanford Street, Santa Monica, CA 90403; 2 Chairman, Department of Pathobiological Sciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI 53706.

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    * Excerpted from: AKC Health Foundation, St. Louis, MO, 2007; J Sm An Pract 48, 528–541, 2007; 5th IVVDC Conference , Madison, WI , 2009.

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    Additional Literature

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    ● Day MJ, Horzinek MC, Schultz RD. Guidelines for the vaccination of dogs and cats. J Sm An Pract, 48, 528-541 2007

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    ● Dodds WJ. Vaccination protocols for dogs predisposed to vaccine reactions. J Am An Hosp Assoc 38: 1-4, 2001.

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    ● Dodds WJ. Vaccine issues revisited: what’s really happening ? Proc Am Hol Vet Med Assoc, Tulsa, OK, 2007, pp 132-140.

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    ● Paul MA (chair) et al. Report of the AAHA Canine Vaccine Task Force : 2006 AAHA Canine Vaccine Guidelines. J Am An Hosp Assoc 42:80-109, Mar-April 2006, 28 pp. American Animal Hospital Association

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    ● Schultz R D Considerations in designing effective and safe vaccination programs for dogs. In: Carmichael LE (editor), Recent Advances in Canine Infectious Diseases. Intern Vet Inform Serv, 2000. www.ivis.org.

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    ● Schultz RD. Duration of immunity for canine and feline vaccines: a review. Vet Microbiol 117:75-79, 2006.

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    “CORE” CANINE VACCINES *

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    · Distemper · Adenovirus (Hepatitis)** · Parvovirus · Rabies _______________________________________ * vaccines that every dog and cat should have ** immunity provided by a CAV-2 vaccine

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    CANINE VACCINE ADVERSE EVENTS *

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    · retrospective cohort study; 1.25 million dogs vaccinated at 360 veterinary hospitals · 38 adverse events per 10,000 dogs vaccinated · inversely related to dog weight · vaccines prescribed on a 1-dose-fits-all basis, rather than by body weight. · increased for dogs up to 2 yr of age, then declined · greater for neutered versus sexually intact dogs · increased as number of vaccines given together increased · increased after the 3 rd or 4th vaccination · genetic predisposition to adverse events documented __________________________________________________ ___________ * from Moore et al, JAVMA 227:1102–1108, 2005

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    VACCINE CONCLUSIONS FOR CANINES *

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    Factors that increase risk of adverse events 3 days after vaccination:

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    · young adult age · small-breed size · neutering · multiple vaccines given per visit

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    These risks should be communicated to clients __________________________________________________ _____

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    * from Moore et al, JAVMA 227:11
     
    KarenJax, Dec 9, 2010
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  2. KarenJax

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    I don't see anything in this article that contradicts "conventional wisdom" about vaccines. The article seems very pro-vaccine unless an animal is either too young to be vaccinated, or too sick to be vaccinated. It says:

    We need to vaccinate more animals in the population with core vaccines to achieve herd immunity and thereby prevent epidemic outbreaks.

    It also emphasizes the importance of following through with booster vaccines:

    A single dose of a two-dose vaccine like Leptospirosis vaccine will not provide immunity. The first dose is for priming the immune system. The second for boosting the immunity has to be given within 6 weeks; otherwise the series has to start over again. After those two doses, revaccination with a single dose can be done at any time.

    I guess I just don't understand why this article is different than what most vets recommend already?
     
    Bifferwine, Dec 9, 2010
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  3. KarenJax

    KarenJax Certified Master Stylist

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    They are recommending the puppy series then titers thereafter is what we on petgroomer.com gathered from it. I have never done the titers but I also only vac for rabies. I will not allow my dogs to have a lepto vac. Dr. Dodd is one of the vets leading the charge so to speak about less vaccinations for our pets.
     
    KarenJax, Dec 9, 2010
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  4. KarenJax

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    I've never even heard of lepto. What is it? That vac is not something any of my vets have recommended, apparently.
     
    Bifferwine, Dec 9, 2010
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  5. KarenJax

    little_fish Moderator

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    Leptospirosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Its a newer vaccine, but i would! vaccinate your dogs with it. It is a very dangerous zoonotic disease. We had several dogs come in with it at the emergency clinic i worked at this summer and the general consensus was that they would rather treat a parvo dog than a dog with lepto.

    If your dogs to get the disease, which they can pick up form the wildlife walking through your backyard, the out look isnt good - especially because they can pass it onto their owners. Also the treatment is extremely expensive due to long, care intensive stays with vets.
     
    little_fish, Dec 9, 2010
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  6. KarenJax

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Thanks Hannah. It seems like it would be a pretty uncommon disease in my neck of the woods since it can only survive in moist environments. No wonder I've never heard of it. We don't even have fleas or ticks out here.
     
    Bifferwine, Dec 9, 2010
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  7. KarenJax

    little_fish Moderator

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    Ya, wasnt sure if it was in your area, and all the cases we saw were at the end of the summer when it started to rain a bunch.

    We dont have fleas are around here - which is awesome! i hate fleas, but we do have ticks : ( which i might even hate more than fleas
     
    little_fish, Dec 9, 2010
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  8. KarenJax

    PRC Stop Quoting Me!

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    I think we should do away with all of those evil vaccines.

    Signed-
    Polio
     
    PRC, Dec 9, 2010
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  9. KarenJax

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    And his friends measles, mumps and rubella. :lol:
     
    Bifferwine, Dec 9, 2010
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  10. KarenJax

    ErinCahir Sausage Wrangler

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    The only thing I vaccinate my dogs for is rabies (every 3 years) and lepto. Nothing else. But we also never board or go to dog parks... it wouldn't be very fun or my blind old lady...
     
    ErinCahir, Dec 9, 2010
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  11. KarenJax

    little_fish Moderator

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    I think that after you do the puppy series and one year shots, i think doing vaccines every three years until they are 8ish is a good vaccine plan.

    The big thing is to go in for the wellness check up, which for a lot of people only happens when they have to go in for vaccines. I think that is part of why vets say you need yearly vaccines, not for a lack of knowledge about how long immunity actually lasts. You can go in and have an educated talk with the vet about doing vaccines every 3 years but still going in for wellness exams and i think you would have a very positive result.
     
    little_fish, Dec 9, 2010
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  12. KarenJax

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    I agree with this, from having worked at a vet for 3 years. The physical exam is the most important part of the "annual vaccine appointment". If people didn't go in for shots, they probably wouldn't go in at all. And a lot gets uncovered from seemingly routine physical exams.

    My cats haven't had shots since they were kittens... Not even rabies. But, depending on their different physical conditions, they still get check ups. BK has to get a check up and blood work done once a month. :( It's important to have your pet looked over once a year, no matter how healthy you think they are.
     
    Bifferwine, Dec 9, 2010
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  13. KarenJax

    little_fish Moderator

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    + 1 Biff!!!
     
    little_fish, Dec 9, 2010
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    karie36

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    This is an interesting thread considering I am trying to decide what vaccines I want my dogs to get. They are due for rabies and when we go to the vet they try to get us to give them like 4 or 5 other vaccines. So im trying to do a lil research on them all before we go.
     
    karie36, Dec 9, 2010
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  15. KarenJax

    KarenJax Certified Master Stylist

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    Well rabies is law lol! I think it comes down to your dogs lifestyle really. Do they get boarded? Dog park? Interact with other dogs? Mine do not. So they get nothing except rabies. Keep in mind, too, that the kennel cough vaccine is like trying to vaccinate against the common cold. Can't do it too many different strains out there.
    Vaccination protocol is a personal choice.
     
    KarenJax, Dec 9, 2010
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  16. KarenJax

    KarenJax Certified Master Stylist

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    Human vs Animal lol and besides Dept of Family & Children Services won't take away your pet if you don't vaccinate, they WILL take your kids!!!
     
    KarenJax, Dec 9, 2010
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  17. KarenJax

    ZyberGoby Because I'm clever VIP Member

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    I agree with PRC I say every one stop taken vaccines. then let Charles Darwin's Idea ring out. survival of the fittest my friends less of every thing and more of other things.
     
    ZyberGoby, Dec 9, 2010
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  18. KarenJax

    little_fish Moderator

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    While to do agree that you should only get the kennel cough vaccine if your dogs are going to be boarded in the near future, most of the things we vaccinate for can be picked up from wildlife not just dogs. So if your dogs go outside they need to be vaccinated against certain things. And yes, even if you are in the city there is wildlife walking through your backyard.


    And while vaccine protocol is a personal choice, i think it should be an educated choice that you make when talking to your vet. This forum is not the place to decide if you should or shouldnt vaccinate your pet - no one on here (at least that i know of) is a vet with the all the training and knowledge of the area you live in that can help you make that choice 100%. We can only provide you with our opinion, a few facts and maybe give you some ideas of what to talk about with out vet.
     
    little_fish, Dec 9, 2010
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  19. KarenJax

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Don't forget, even if you don't take your dogs to the park or board them, every time you take them to the vet you are exposing them to disease.

    My dogs board at the vet, but even all the kennels I looked at require a full vac panel before they will take in a dog.

    It's true that vaccines can have bad side effects in certain animals. Usually these side effects are mild (drowsiness, loss of appetite, vomiting) and go away after a day or so. Really severe reactions to vaccines in dogs or cats are very rare, just as severe reactions to aspirin or tylenol occur, but are rare, in humans. I don't think the fear of side effects is a good enough reason to avoid vaccines, just as the fear of side effects is not a good enough reason for people to avoid vaccines. The benefits outweigh the small chance of negative side effects.
     
    Bifferwine, Dec 9, 2010
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  20. KarenJax

    PRC Stop Quoting Me!

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    They don't take your kids if you don't get them vaccinated. There are thousands of holistic whackos (one of my friends included) who don't get their kids vaccinated......vaccinations are a choice. If you choose not to get your child vaccinated it's probably a really dumb choice, but a choice nonetheless.
     
    PRC, Dec 9, 2010
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