PH Problem! - Found the problem!

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by jhenby, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. jhenby

    jhenby

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    I just wanted to update all that followed or replied.This one may be for the books! The last stage on my RO, which is a five stage is a post carbon filter,the manufacturer couldn't tell me exactly what the composition was but it WAS the problem,stripping everything out of the water! No buffering or manipulation of the water could be done after it passed through, like I said PH would not rise above 7 no matter how much of anything you added and calcium could not be raised above 350. What I witnessed this morning in a vial was directly after salt was mixed, it was 8.4.Then within a minute in the same vial it turned brown and then a gold indicating 7. That quick! I removed the filter and everything was perfect 8.4 and calcium was 450! The manufacturer said the water was actually too pure, stripping away any binding capabilities to the salt! Just FYI if anyone has either calcium or PH problems, better check your RO unit! Thanks though for your input!
     
    jhenby, Jun 8, 2009
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  2. jhenby

    daugherty part time reefer

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    daugherty, Jun 8, 2009
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  3. jhenby

    jhenby

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    Yep...Kent Marine
     
    jhenby, Jun 9, 2009
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  4. jhenby

    jhenby

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    Uhh well, didn't use Kent buffer, but Seachem , Kent Kalk drip and others. Guess what's your question?
     
    jhenby, Jun 9, 2009
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  5. jhenby

    jhenby

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    Used Kent salt and Red Sea Coral Pro, both gave the same results!
     
    jhenby, Jun 9, 2009
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  6. jhenby

    jhenby

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    I can tell you it wouldn't have worked...IE Kent RO right, this water would accept nothing at all, Kent Kalk drip,Seachem buffer, API buffer, nothing!
     
    jhenby, Jun 9, 2009
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  7. jhenby

    dcantucson

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    Yea... I'm glad you got it figured out!
     
    dcantucson, Jun 9, 2009
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  8. jhenby

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Wow that is super weird! But I'm glad you got it figured out. Hopefully you won't run into that problem again.
     
    Bifferwine, Jun 9, 2009
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  9. jhenby

    dcantucson

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    Hopefully none of us will! Scary!
     
    dcantucson, Jun 9, 2009
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  10. jhenby

    tankedchemist

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    They're misleading you.... the 5th stage filter wasn't just stripping everything from the water. It must also have been leaving resin in the water after you filtered it... otherwise, you wouldn't have seen such a resistance to pH changes. In other words, I'd bet money that their 5th stage resin was degrading into your water.

    But, still, I'm really glad you figured this out. Out of curiousity, what brand RO unit do you use?
     
    tankedchemist, Jun 9, 2009
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  11. jhenby

    jhenby

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    Yeh, I know. Just a carbon filter wouldn't have done that.It has to contain some sort of resin that was staying in the water.They really didn't have any information on the chemical makeup.It was an inline filter on the top, you had to replace the whole thing not just the media.
     
    jhenby, Jun 9, 2009
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  12. jhenby

    jhenby

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    It's a GWW out of Fullerton, CA. Five stage{ Now Four!} with a 3 gallon reservoir.
     
    jhenby, Jun 9, 2009
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  13. jhenby

    ccCapt Reef Hacker Moderator

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    I agree 100%. Carbon will not affect water like you experienced. Something had to be leeching out and whatever it was isn't good. I have no idea what chemicals would even affect pH so much....except boron/borates.
     
    ccCapt, Jun 9, 2009
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  14. jhenby

    jhenby

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    Yeh I'd really like to know what's in that filter. I had two different LFS say that what I saw was impossible....until I showed them!
     
    jhenby, Jun 10, 2009
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  15. jhenby

    jhenby

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    I really wish I had a digital camcorder to take video of the PH eating water.It took less than a minute to go from 8.3 to 7! I kept a jar of the old just to show one of my fish stores reps....he had never heard of such a thing. He'll be shocked! The even weirder thing is it happens in the same vial,going from purple to red to brown to bright yellow all in just a minute!
     
    jhenby, Jun 10, 2009
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  16. jhenby

    jhenby

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    If I can locate or borrow a camcorder I'll post a video.
     
    jhenby, Jun 10, 2009
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  17. jhenby

    dcantucson

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    We believe you> It's just so strange it's "hard to believe!"
     
    dcantucson, Jun 10, 2009
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  18. jhenby

    jhnrb

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    The Kent R/O right is just for that problem, you need to add it per manufacturers specifications, let it mix and aireate for at least 24 hours and then add salt to the mixing container and let mix another 48 to 72 hours. I use a 5 stage Spectra Pure system that produces 0 TDS and 99.9% pure water and have had no problems with the kent marine products, of course I use a kalc reactor for makeup water also that keeps the ph between 8.3 and 8.5. My redox is also above 300 when everything is going well, so, there is more to the R/O water use than just filtering it through the system. Thanks for the thread and comments. Everyone should take note of this thread. although not a complete article on using R/O water, a great subject and excellent observation by the thread author. thanks again for the thread. oh, an less I forget, be careful bout using drinking water filtration systems as they may not be suitable for use in marine systems, use only R/O units specifically designed for marine aquarium use, for a five stage you should have the membrane, a prefilter, a carbon block, and two resin filters placed in the proper order of flow.. thanks again for the thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
    jhnrb, Jun 10, 2009
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  19. jhenby

    jhenby

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    Hmm never really heard of the Kent product, just naorrowed it down to the last stage filter by elimination. I was really at the end of my rope.Now I'm doing 20% water changes about every three days after an initial 50% to get everything stable.The up and down PH took a toll I lost a couple leathers and a copperband.Everything else seems OK.Thanks though.
     
    jhenby, Jun 10, 2009
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  20. jhenby

    tankedchemist

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    Sue the RO company for the cost of your coral and butterfly. :)

    ...more money for my tank usually makes me feel better.
     
    tankedchemist, Jun 10, 2009
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