Reef Cleaners ....nightmare

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by rlsdsurfer, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. rlsdsurfer

    rlsdsurfer

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    Please note ALL before committing...in a nutshell I paid $54.+ to John fotr 3 hermits and some 20 snails and sea lettuce algae. Didn't want all this but needed to spend $25.00 in order to Qualify for the *next day delivery from Florida which cost an additional $28.00! *is required for health of animals!

    DID not get next day as promised by e-mail, by John,(note E-mail below), no word on the $28.00. The package is to be delivered today Monday the *th, That is from Friday @ 2:pM until Monday @? Some 72+ hours and I'm supposed to accept these dead and dying or sick creatures!
    John says take a pic and send it and I'm to trust this man at this point! I don't own a camera, a cell phone or have anyway of sending a pic of a snail!!

    I have filed a claim and will pursue satisfaction....
    35426 USPS (Fedex Overnight Service)



    Quantity Name
    4 Dwarf Cerith
    15 Dwarf Planaxis
    4 Nerite Snails
    1 Scarlet Hermit Crab*
    1 1 Penny Macro Algae
    2 Ulva
    4 Empty Hermit Shells
    1 Blue Leg Hermit Crab
    2 Thin Striped Hermit*



    Does that mean delivery Sat July 6th? Thanks for shells. Also, one concern John my tank temp has been hi last few days up to 84, considering acclamation what is the highest temp I should attempt acclimation? I cool with ice down to 80 in evening.

    John Maloney / Reef Cleaners
    Jul 5 (3 days ago)

    to me
    Yes, it should arrive tomorrow. That will be OK for these species, it is on the high end, but they are tough and come from areas with high degrees of temperature fluctuation.
    Estimated delivery :
    Mon 7/08/2013 10:30 am
    This is from FedEx tracking label! hope not!!Sorry about the delay Ron, it seems the packages although sent overnight were scanned in for Monday delivery. We are working with our Fedex rep to get that fixed f possible, but it doesn't look good at this point. I will let you know if I hear anything and we can work something out on Monday. Terribly sorry for the inconvenience and hassle this will cause you.
    John these creatures will not survive!! At the very least be extremely stressed and weak!! This is unacceptable!! I will not accept delivery of dead animals!! Damn-it!
    The hermits may not survive, the snails and macro algae should.
    Sorry, John I will not except delivery. I have spoken with Chase.
    Please do not commit credit card fraud. Just inspect the package when it arrives, if you have a loss send us a picture and we will refund it promptly.
    Credit card fraud!!! Are you kidding me! I will not except this package!
    Loss is yours Mr. Maloney, I paid for and was told 'next day'. I will not take a chance on the health off these animals or take pictures or be inconvenienced in any manner!

    This is what you should, be doing, apologize for not delivering as promised, refund my monies and/or resend a complete order, delivered within 24 hours as promised.

    Instead you want to threaten me, inconvenience me and insult me... John these animals don't live forever you just lost a customer and I will post on Living Reefs every word you have said and your invoice and FedEx tracking .....bad business!

    Very disappointed

    HE SAYS IT IS A LATE SHIPMENT NOW...Sorry you feel that way. We will issue a refund for any losses occured, but we do not issue refunds for animals thrown in the garbage. Here is our policy regarding late shipments:
    Will sir...for 1 this is not a late shipment!
    2, as a novice reefer I can't determine the health of these creatures via inspection,
    3, I will not put sick, dead and dying animals in my tank for several hours, days until they live or die,
    4, your own site states *must be delivered next day,


    FYI, your added 'never refuse' statement is self serving statement and not law.

    You have been in this business for a while, you should have known your own delivery abilities. Your e-mail stated saturday delivery...remember!
    ****Thank you Ron! Can do on the shells, ships tomorrow. :) 35426 USPS (Fedex Overnight Service) Does that mean delivery Sat July 6th? Yes, it should arrive tomorrow.****
    I am a 57 year old retired F&I man, if you want a fight you got it! Again, I will not except this package and I will sue you if necessary Mr Maloney.
    Sorry about all that, of you suspect an item is dead just shoot is a picture I can tell right away by looking at them.
    Mr. Maloney...not going to happen! LOL you think i'm going to go by your word of a still picture on weather or not it is alive! Your ridiculous!

    All this for what &10-12.00 profit sale!! WOW...again not going to accept this package!
    AND HERE IS A contradiction...f you felt that way you shouldnt have agreed to our policies when ordering. No live shipment company has a "you can abandon the package and receive full refund policy". No company on earth works that way. Please just follow our policies, and if there are losses we will take care of them. The majority of your order will be fine. At most, you are looking at 3 dead hermit crabs, they can make it too though.
    Sorry again for the delay, we used the next day Priority overnight service, you will see that when the box arrives. They were scanned in wrong by the driver who picked it up. When it arrives you will see, it will have the service you paid for. Again, I apologize for the delay, if you have anny losses send us a picture and we will refund them promptly. We will not issue a refund for a box thrown in the garbage or refused though.

    YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL BE DEAD OR DYING! YOU HAVE KNOW CLUE!
    ANother contradiction.. Sir, I have shipped 100,000s of packages, this is not the first delay. I am very familiar with this, and it is clear to tell what has lived or died simply by looking at them. You have to inspect the package to get a refund. You dont get to just throw live animals in the garbage for the fun of it and get full refund. Only the hermits are at risk, and they even have a 50% or better shot. I ship all the other items in your package with 3 day mail ALL THE TIME. Only the starred items require faster service. 3 hermit crabs. And they will probably make it.
    Please post our entire conversation on Living Reefs, and see what they say.OK...
    I'm not trowing live animals in the garbage! I am refusing delivery of dead, or dieing weak animals. That according to your site MUST be delivered overnight to assure health.
    I paid $28.00 had to build a $25.00 purchase to even get overnight, which I didn't get.
    You have not addressed that yet. I am simply out $28.00!!

    Again, Mr. Baloney I will not accept this package!

    FYI, I am also a 57 year old disabled man who doesn't have the ability to take a picture and send it to you. I do not own a camera , a cell phone, or a webcam. I have limited income and resources and ability.
    This transaction has been a nightmare and you sir are a complete ASSHOLE, a very poor business man. Your site assures Saturday delivery in the lower 48 as you personally stated by e-mail. Now, you expect a novice reefer of 6 months to determine the health of a variety of creatures he can't even identify! O wait, thats right a pic and your word...after all this I'm to trust the word of an ASSHOLE! Yes I will post this !

    Now after talking to Chase and the dispute they are recommending I accept this package even tho I have now way of proving the animals condition this is a F**ing joke.

    All this hassle b/c John doesn't know his own delivery abilities...and $what John a $12-15.00 profit! WOW :frustrat: FYI, BTW i'm a 6 month novice how the hell am I supposed to determine the health!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2013
    rlsdsurfer, Jul 8, 2013
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  2. rlsdsurfer

    d2mini VIP Member

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    Wow.

    John is a good guy.
    I would have remained calm, took delivery, gave it a day or two to see what survived (snails can go into a sort of hibernation for a day or so when under stress) and then called john to discuss any refund or replacement. People make mistakes and shipping doesn't always go as planned. It happens.

    You can't beat John's prices and he always includes extras to help make up for some DOA. Even if some died during shipping, you still tend to come out ahead.

    I don't know how you really handled the situation, but just based off this rant it sounds like you jumped down his throat prematurely. I wouldn't blame him for going on the defensive.
     
    d2mini, Jul 8, 2013
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  3. rlsdsurfer

    rlsdsurfer

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    FEDEX could give me any documentation that you will get this package back, so as advised I have excepted it 9:10 AM!! I am taking it straight to my LFS which is open @ 10!

    He's an asshole to me. He shoulda shipped it properly wheres my $28.00 overnight fees!!!
     
    rlsdsurfer, Jul 8, 2013
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  4. rlsdsurfer

    d2mini VIP Member

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    From your initial post...

    it seems the packages although sent overnight were scanned in for Monday delivery. We are working with our Fedex rep to get that fixed f possible, but it doesn't look good at this point. I will let you know if I hear anything and we can work something out on Monday. Terribly sorry for the inconvenience and hassle this will cause you.

    That should have been the end of your conversation, IMHO.
    Then come monday, see what's what and proceed from there. Without flying off the handle.
    John said it was sent overnight and it was changed due to circumstances beyond his control. He's looking into it and would work something out with you on monday. And he apologized for the inconvenience.

    There is an old saying that goes... "You can catch more flies with sugar and honey than with vinegar".

    And why are you taking it to your LFS?
     
    d2mini, Jul 8, 2013
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  5. rlsdsurfer

    kbuser92 Breeder

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    I'm guessing to have them inspect hibernating snails, claim they're dead and earn his business. Its very clear when you get the bag of hermits if they're alive. As for the snails, some will become active immediately, some of mine have taken a week to get going.

    I agree with Dennis, there's no reason to get upset with John if the FedEx guy made a mistake. If there are some dead when you recieved the package, I guarantee John will either ship you more or refund your money. He's a good guy and has been doing this for a long time. He definitely knows what hes doing and I would have no concerns of he's telling you that everything should make it alive. In my opinion, your stock should all be fine and if not, I guarantee he sent you way more than you ordered.

    If you have a problem with deaths, tale it up with FedEx, not John. He did his job.

    I understand also, the limited income and being older, but it seems to me like you're that asshole that wants someone fired at McDonald's when your burger has pickles and you ordered without or when they give you diet instead of regular. Sit back, take a breath and relax. Its not the end of the world unless yall male it and John will do his part to ensure your satisfaction from him if you let him, hut if you don't then you will stay angry.
     
    kbuser92, Jul 8, 2013
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  6. rlsdsurfer

    fastrd400 It wasn't me! Moderator

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    Seriously??

    John is and has been a great sponsor on this forum. All his shipments come with more than what is promised and I have never, ever seen anyone come back unhappy with an order.

    John's policies regarding on-line orders and delivery of live animals falls in-line with any and all other sites that offer the same thing. Always take pictures of the the DOA and email back to said vendor for resolution, plain and simple. The fact that you are one of the very few with no cell phone or camera is not his issue. Certainly you have a friend, neighbor or family member that can come over and snap a couple pictures? You must prove that the order is dead. He has been doing this for quite a while, and if he tells you the only creatures you really need to inspect and worry about are the hermits, I'd take his word for it.

    Now, on to the other parts that lite a fire under my ass!

    1) I can almost understand your frustration. But, Reef Cleaners is a sponsor here, and you calling him names like ASSHOLE on an open thread will not be tolerated. I understand that was all said in email responses, but you could have easily taken it out.

    2) You are going to sue him? For 28.00? Really? Okay, file the paperwork with the court, that's 30.00. Find a service to get him served in Florida, that's another 50.00-75.00. Know that he will not fly out to San Diego to appear in Small Claims court for 28.00. You win a judgement, let's call it 133.00 with the costs included. Good luck collecting!

    The whole thing is completely stupid if you you ask me. You are getting bent out of shape before you even have any idea of what you will be getting.
     
    fastrd400, Jul 8, 2013
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  7. rlsdsurfer

    MitchReef reef noobie, since 1986

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    I've NEVER had an issue with John or Reef Cleaners....When I do have vendor issues I handle it with a bit of tact and have found that approach works MUCH MORE to my benefit....

    ....If I were the owner of a business, I think there are people I would just soon not have as customers.....
     
    MitchReef, Jul 8, 2013
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  8. rlsdsurfer

    wontonflip I failed Kobayashi Maru

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    Getting this upset honestly gets you nowhere. I understand your frustration. I've been in similar situations, but I get more positive responses from businesses when I'm calm and receptive to what they need me to do. Even situations that dragged on for months -- I remain calm because getting upset does nothing for the situation.

    In fact, just today, my pharmacy voluntarily gave me a $10 gift card just because after all the inconveniences I've had the past week, I remained calm and positive about the situation. I didn't ask/expect the gift card. They just gave it to me out of nowhere. I believe that irate customers get less cooperation from customer service than customers who work with them to resolve the issue.

    Hell, when I worked customer service, I bent over backwards to help the ones who have been patient and calm. The ones who were irate got my help of course, but I not as ready to take the extra mile for them...I'll do just enough to solve the situation and get them off my line.

    That said, I see nothing unreasonable with sending proof of the animals' health. Sucks you have nothing to take a picture of, but you didn't have to approach it that way. If you explained this to him calmly from the start, he might have been willing to work with you.

    Did this just happen this past week? And you're already posting about it?

    Also, you really shouldn't post your personal information on a forum like that :shock: You realize the whole internet will see that right?
     
    wontonflip, Jul 8, 2013
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  9. rlsdsurfer

    reefnoob

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    +1 to everyone above. I think you should really calm down. It's understandable that you're angry, but really John is a great guy! I've ordered from him 3 times and he always gave extras and always gave a refund if the item was dead. In regards to you being a novice and not knowing whether or not the animal was healthy, you could have just asked us here on the forum.
     
    reefnoob, Jul 8, 2013
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  10. rlsdsurfer

    wontonflip I failed Kobayashi Maru

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    And you should thank Brian (BL1) for removing your personal info ;)

    Keep in mind, businesses are run by people -- if you bite, they will eventually bite back.
     
    wontonflip, Jul 8, 2013
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  11. rlsdsurfer

    kbuser92 Breeder

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    I already copied, Gretch. The Mormons will be on their way. : )



    Jk...
     
    kbuser92, Jul 8, 2013
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  12. rlsdsurfer

    KelliZackMOM Amy

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    Wow, just WOW! Dude, you are way overreacting. John is trying to make things right with you.
     
    KelliZackMOM, Jul 8, 2013
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  13. rlsdsurfer

    mariobrothersleeve squirrel

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    It will be alright man, dont worry about it. If your looking for someone to complain to, pm me and ill listen. I forgot why were attacking this guy? He had a bad experience, that may not be the same results we had. We really dont need to disipline a 57yr old man, do we? I vote we just remove this whole post bl1 so we dont embarass our selves any further, or sticky it so everyone can just rub it in some more. A little class will go far. D2mini...... I just wanna say, you are the man!
     
    mariobrothersleeve, Jul 9, 2013
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  14. rlsdsurfer

    emmett0122

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    +1 to mario
     
    emmett0122, Jul 9, 2013
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  15. rlsdsurfer

    fastrd400 It wasn't me! Moderator

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    The only one so far embarassing themselves in this post, is the OP.
     
    fastrd400, Jul 9, 2013
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    d2mini likes this.
  16. rlsdsurfer

    d2mini VIP Member

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    I wanna know what happened to the order.
     
    d2mini, Jul 9, 2013
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  17. rlsdsurfer

    mariobrothersleeve squirrel

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    D2mini squared it away, we dont need to get on the band wagon and destroy the op. By all means, if this is what livingreefs is about continue to deface him, but im sure he got the point. It seems like everyone loves to kick someone when there down. Was it a wise decision, not so much, but it is what it is. We just start throwing the word "asshole" around and deem it ok to go at someone. It would show a little more respect to john just to deleat this thread and leave it alone.
     
    mariobrothersleeve, Jul 9, 2013
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  18. rlsdsurfer

    d2mini VIP Member

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    There is a lot for newbs to learn from threads like these.
    In this thread for instance, how NOT to resolve problems with vendors.
    I don't really agree with policing threads unless they really get out of hand... there are other forums for that. That said, that one word wasn't really necessary.
     
    d2mini, Jul 9, 2013
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  19. rlsdsurfer

    Jml32788

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    Unless some posts have been deleted, I have not read anyone's post where they are "defacing" or "destroying" the OP. A healthy dose of honesty from a group of strangers is sometimes what is needed for someone to open their eyes. This whole thread has been handled with a good deal of maturity I think. You should venture on to any other open forum and look at how these types of threads get handled. If your going to post threads like this then you better put your flame suit on.
     
    Jml32788, Jul 9, 2013
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  20. rlsdsurfer

    SarahSmile :)

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    It's funny, I ordered from reef cleaners not last winter but the winter before. FedEx or ups messed up and my snails sat in chicago for days. Then they sat in my driveway in the snow all day. John was so nice. Offered to ship me a whole new order. But, lo and behold, those buggers were still alive! Poor John must of answered a dozen of my stupid emails and told me how to check for dead ones. John is really nice and shipping delays are upsetting for sure. I'm so sorry you had issues. I work at a distributor and it shocking how many ups red or next day orders get delayed because of weather or vehicle trouble, routing problems, etc. ups/FedEx always credits us but our customers are still angry. Again, I'm so sorry you had a bad experience.
     
    SarahSmile, Jul 9, 2013
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