Rose anenome splitting

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by TW, Apr 1, 2006.

  1. TW

    TW Guest

    I purchased a rose anemone about 8 months ago. About a month ago I
    noticed that it was noticeably bigger. It had split in two. I was
    thrilled with my success. On the weekend it did it again. I now have
    three rose anemones in my tank. Has anyone had a similar experience? My
    LFS is licking it chops hoping I can bring some in to trade. I
    haven't quite figured how I am going to get them off my rock to take in
    to the store. I have not had a lot of luck trying to keep SPS in my
    tank but softies and leathers grow like weeds. Go figure

    Todd
     
    TW, Apr 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. TW

    Boomer Guest

    I hate to pop your bubble but splitting in anemones is almost noda in the ocean and is a
    stress related issue.

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
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    "TW" <todd.howardwilliams@bellnet.ca> wrote in message
    news:gilXf.3366$u15.529355@news20.bellglobal.com...
    :I purchased a rose anemone about 8 months ago. About a month ago I
    : noticed that it was noticeably bigger. It had split in two. I was
    : thrilled with my success. On the weekend it did it again. I now have
    : three rose anemones in my tank. Has anyone had a similar experience? My
    : LFS is licking it chops hoping I can bring some in to trade. I
    : haven't quite figured how I am going to get them off my rock to take in
    : to the store. I have not had a lot of luck trying to keep SPS in my
    : tank but softies and leathers grow like weeds. Go figure
    :
    : Todd
     
    Boomer, Apr 1, 2006
    #2
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  3. TW

    TW Guest

    Boomer wrote:

    splitting in anemones is almost noda in the ocean ?

    Sorry I don't follow your point.

    Todd
     
    TW, Apr 1, 2006
    #3
  4. TW

    Sandbag Guest

    Splitting is not always stress related but is most often it is. Feeding
    habits can cause the split as well. Water changes and major changes in
    chemistry can cause them to split. I do know some one who does this on
    purpose to help financialy support the reef.

    BTW if you start with an outer edge and a thumb nail you can get them
    off, kinda like pealing and orange, only more delicate. The best method
    however is to force them onto a rock you intened to sell. A direct pump
    flow on the piece you want to move will make it move, not always in the
    direction you want though.
     
    Sandbag, Apr 1, 2006
    #4
  5. TW

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    I find it real hard to believe that anemones almost never
    split in the ocean.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Boomer wrote on 4/1/2006 1:55 AM:
    > I hate to pop your bubble but splitting in anemones is almost noda in the ocean and is a
    > stress related issue.
    >
     
    Wayne Sallee, Apr 1, 2006
    #5
  6. TW

    Boomer Guest

    Ask Daphne Fautin, the world leading anemone expert or check the reproduction biology of
    anemones. If it is so common in tanks why has it never been seen in the ocean. Another
    myth, anemone fish do not feed anemones. 20 years ago I had a 30 gal hi-tank, a single NO
    lamp and a "ritteri" anemone, that ended up loosing all is zoo's and it split.

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

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    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    news:442EA1EF.9000601@WayneSallee.com...
    :I find it real hard to believe that anemones almost never
    : split in the ocean.
    :
    : Wayne Sallee
    : Wayne's Pets
    : Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    :
    :
    : Boomer wrote on 4/1/2006 1:55 AM:
    : > I hate to pop your bubble but splitting in anemones is almost noda in the ocean and is
    a
    : > stress related issue.
    : >
     
    Boomer, Apr 1, 2006
    #6
  7. TW

    Boomer Guest

    "Feeding
    habits can cause the split as well. Water changes and major changes in
    chemistry can cause them to split"

    All stress related ;-)

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    "Sandbag" <pat.brigitte@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1143899354.548908.325210@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    : Splitting is not always stress related but is most often it is. Feeding
    : habits can cause the split as well. Water changes and major changes in
    : chemistry can cause them to split. I do know some one who does this on
    : purpose to help financialy support the reef.
    :
    : BTW if you start with an outer edge and a thumb nail you can get them
    : off, kinda like pealing and orange, only more delicate. The best method
    : however is to force them onto a rock you intened to sell. A direct pump
    : flow on the piece you want to move will make it move, not always in the
    : direction you want though.
    :
     
    Boomer, Apr 1, 2006
    #7
  8. TW

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    As corals grow, they split, so do mushrooms. Yes stress
    can cause reproductive behavior in a lot of creatures, but
    just because stress can cause reproductive behavior in
    creatures does not mean that if a creature is reproducing,
    it's because it is stressed.

    So what has been done to prove that anemones don't split
    unless it is stressed?

    Anemones don't keep growing larger and larger without some
    limit. You could argue that it gets so big that it's
    stressful for it to get enough food, so then it splits.
    You could argue that an anemone that grows to big for it's
    spot, split's because it's too stressfull for it to fit
    into the tight spot. But this kind of splitting should be
    considered normal, not a negative thing. And what about
    colonial anemones???

    I just don't buy into this mindset. I'd like to see some data.


    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Boomer wrote on 4/1/2006 1:51 PM:
    > "Feeding
    > habits can cause the split as well. Water changes and major changes in
    > chemistry can cause them to split"
    >
    > All stress related ;-)
    >
     
    Wayne Sallee, Apr 1, 2006
    #8
  9. TW

    TW Guest

    My tank is more than 8 or 9 years old. It is pretty rock solid as far as
    stability goes. I have a good skimmer and a good reactor going I
    barely touch it other than feeding. I don't think "stress" is a viable
    answer. To me it seems more likely to be happy normal reproduction.
    The anenome is always fully inflated and visually it looks pretty happy
    where it is. The tenticles are sometimes straight and sometimes extra
    inflated with a ball shape at the ends.
    The reason for my post was I was so surprised that it split twice in
    such a short span of time. I have had it in my tank for close to a year
    so far and all of a sudden wham!

    Todd
     
    TW, Apr 2, 2006
    #9
  10. TW

    Boomer Guest

    Corals , and mushrooms are not anemones. Colonial anemones are a another issue. You can
    try to argue any rime or reason you want an aquarium is a stressful environment for most
    of the large anemones particular the carpets, of which a Rose is. It is my fault to have
    not be more clear and I should have not said anemones but carpet anemones, which are
    almost all sexual. As Sanberg pointed out water chemistry and feeding, to include light
    cycling, light type, high nutrient levels, all much different than on a coral reef. These
    are always changing in a reef tank, which is a stress but where BTA's seem to better than
    most.


    Who said they keep growing large and larger with no limit. Most animals all have a limit,
    that by no means requires a need for a carpet to split. Some carpets have been monitored
    for almost 100 years. People seem to think that if it splits that means it is happy. The
    only ones that has a mind set are those that seem to have to believe it must be happy.
    Just like those with the mind set that anemone fish feed anemones. To often people like to
    input anthropomorphic thoughts into animal behavior. Can BTA's go through longitudinal
    fission in the wild, yes, but is very rare in nature as opposed to captive care, where it
    is the main stay. Longitudinal fission is almost exclusive to captive systems in carpets.
    BTA's do not need much food and most of its daily requirements are similar to corals due
    to zoo's. As I said cloning { LF) is absent or very rare in host sea anemones par the
    BTA in captivity, where it seems to point to stress.

    Some info form the Breeder's Registry

    "4. Species Specific Information



    Entacmaea quadricolor. This species really did emerge as the star performer. Not only was
    it much more likely to live a long life in an aquarium than any other species, but it was
    also reported as reproducing readily.

    E. quadricolor appears adaptable to a range of conditions, doing well under very high
    lighting, but able to live under tube only lighting also in some set-ups. It can also live
    with low, medium or high current, but would appear to favour medium or high. Reproduction
    was often in response to a stress event, often reported in newly purchased specimens
    recovering from the rigours of being shipped. It may be that the anemone having survived
    what to it was a cataclysmic event, reproduces, to ensure survival of the species.

    A drawback with this species is that it was often reported as a wanderer, prone to doing
    damage to both its surroundings and itself as it moves around the aquarium. However, it
    was also reported as staying in the same place for several years once it found a really
    good spot. One example of this was a respondent who said his E. quadricolor liked a spot
    where it was attached to the underside of an overhanging rock, but reaching out into the
    tank in a position of high light and strong current. Knowing his anemone's preference for
    this type of location, when it had to be moved to a new tank, the owner deliberately
    created a similar type location in the new tank, and the anemone moved around the tank
    until it found it, and then stayed put.

    This anemone was referred to by a number of owners as hardy, and it appears that it is,
    given a liveable environment. Although it is hardy by anemone standards, it must be
    remembered that it still requires a good high quality environment.

    If you combine all the above with the fact that this is an attractive anemone that has
    also been reported as hosting a wide range of clownfish species, it really should be the
    anemone of choice for most aquarists. Looked after properly it will reward its owner by
    maintaining good health and possibly producing clones, and will also assist conservation
    by reducing the removal of other species from reefs, which will likely die after a year or
    two in an aquarium."

    In this hobby one can make an arguement on about anything or demand data, that does not
    make them correct. Ome could argue it is splitting because it has no or the wrong host
    fish.

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    news:442ED92E.60208@WayneSallee.com...
    : As corals grow, they split, so do mushrooms. Yes stress
    : can cause reproductive behavior in a lot of creatures, but
    : just because stress can cause reproductive behavior in
    : creatures does not mean that if a creature is reproducing,
    : it's because it is stressed.
    :
    : So what has been done to prove that anemones don't split
    : unless it is stressed?
    :
    : Anemones don't keep growing larger and larger without some
    : limit. You could argue that it gets so big that it's
    : stressful for it to get enough food, so then it splits.
    : You could argue that an anemone that grows to big for it's
    : spot, split's because it's too stressfull for it to fit
    : into the tight spot. But this kind of splitting should be
    : considered normal, not a negative thing. And what about
    : colonial anemones???
    :
    : I just don't buy into this mindset. I'd like to see some data.
    :
    :
    : Wayne Sallee
    : Wayne's Pets
    : Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    :
    :
    : Boomer wrote on 4/1/2006 1:51 PM:
    : > "Feeding
    : > habits can cause the split as well. Water changes and major changes in
    : > chemistry can cause them to split"
    : >
    : > All stress related ;-)
    : >
     
    Boomer, Apr 2, 2006
    #10
  11. TW

    Boomer Guest

    A year for a carpet is a very short time. Some can last a year in terrible conditions,
    such as my ritteri. Usually I judge the success of a carpet after it has been in a system
    for 3 years

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    "TW" <todd.howardwilliams@bellnet.ca> wrote in message
    news:JKEXf.4170$u15.618260@news20.bellglobal.com...
    : My tank is more than 8 or 9 years old. It is pretty rock solid as far as
    : stability goes. I have a good skimmer and a good reactor going I
    : barely touch it other than feeding. I don't think "stress" is a viable
    : answer. To me it seems more likely to be happy normal reproduction.
    : The anenome is always fully inflated and visually it looks pretty happy
    : where it is. The tenticles are sometimes straight and sometimes extra
    : inflated with a ball shape at the ends.
    : The reason for my post was I was so surprised that it split twice in
    : such a short span of time. I have had it in my tank for close to a year
    : so far and all of a sudden wham!
    :
    : Todd
    :
     
    Boomer, Apr 2, 2006
    #11
  12. TW

    TW Guest

    Boomer wrote:
    > A year for a carpet is a very short time. Some can last a year in terrible conditions,
    > such as my ritteri. Usually I judge the success of a carpet after it has been in a system
    > for 3 years
    >

    Granted a year is a short time in a system. I have a pink tip and a
    purple carpet that I have had since I first set up my system. 8-9 years
    ago. The carpet has been host to a pair of perculas for the past 4
    years. I often wonder how long they will last. They seem to just keep
    on ticking year after year. Many corals have come and gone over the
    years but those two are original and seem happy. I feed them directly
    about once once a month or so otherwise they just feed out of the water
    column.

    Todd
     
    TW, Apr 2, 2006
    #12
  13. Boomer wrote:
    >Another
    > myth, anemone fish do not feed anemones.


    My maroon clownfish constantly brings food to my rose anemones. Maybe
    he's not intentionally feeding them, but that's the overall effect. ;-)
     
    Captain Feedback, Apr 2, 2006
    #13
  14. TW

    Pszemol Guest

    "Boomer" <wcwing@nospamchartermi.net> wrote in message news:TOKXf.370$PA4.32@fe04.lga...
    > Corals , and mushrooms are not anemones. Colonial anemones are a another issue. You can
    > try to argue any rime or reason you want an aquarium is a stressful environment for most
    > of the large anemones particular the carpets, of which a Rose is. It is my fault to have
    > not be more clear and I should have not said anemones but carpet anemones, which are
    > almost all sexual. As Sanberg pointed out water chemistry and feeding, to include light
    > cycling, light type, high nutrient levels, all much different than on a coral reef. These
    > are always changing in a reef tank, which is a stress but where BTA's seem to better than
    > most.


    I was sure we are talking about the rose variation of a BTA.

    > Just like those with the mind set that anemone fish feed anemones.
    > To often people like to input anthropomorphic thoughts into animal behavior.


    What clownfish are doing when they bring food to the anemone ?
    It is not feeding, how do you interprete this behaviour then ?
    I saw it many, many times in my reef tank with pair of maroon clowns and a large BTA.
     
    Pszemol, Apr 2, 2006
    #14
  15. TW

    Pszemol Guest

    "Captain Feedback" <dc2772@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1143990123.561588.271030@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
    >>Another myth, anemone fish do not feed anemones.

    >
    > My maroon clownfish constantly brings food to my rose anemones.
    > Maybe he's not intentionally feeding them, but that's the overall effect. ;-)


    Same here: maroon pair and a large BTA.
     
    Pszemol, Apr 2, 2006
    #15
  16. TW

    Don Geddis Guest

    "Boomer" <wcwing@nospamchartermi.net> wrote on Sun, 2 Apr 2006 :
    > an aquarium is a stressful environment for most of the large anemones
    > particular the carpets, of which a Rose is. It is my fault to have not be
    > more clear and I should have not said anemones but carpet anemones, which
    > are almost all sexual.


    The rose anemone most people mean is a red color morph of a bubble-tip anemone,
    aka Entacmaea quadricolor. That is not a carpet anemone, i.e. one of the ones
    that is a large flat dinner plate in shape with short stubbly tentacles, and
    usually buries its foot in sand (instead of adhering to rock). For example,
    Stichodactyla sp., e.g. S. gigantea or S. haddoni.

    > Some info form the Breeder's Registry
    > "4. Species Specific Information
    > Entacmaea quadricolor.


    Yeah, that's a rose anemone ... but not a carpet.

    -- Don
    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Don Geddis don@geddis.org http://reef.geddis.org/
    Blame: The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures.
    -- Despair.com
     
    Don Geddis, Apr 2, 2006
    #16
  17. TW

    TW Guest

    I guess my understanding of these organisims is a bit naive. I assume
    that when it is fully inflated and stationary that it is happy. This
    may not be the case as you have explained. However, if that is the case
    I think we can say the same thing for every SW aquarium animal. I'm
    sure the would all be happier in the ocean but that would not make this
    hobby viable would it? Thanks for the info. I appreciate it and your
    help from the past. I believe it was your website that gave me alot of
    info when I first got into this hobby.

    Cheers
    Todd
     
    TW, Apr 2, 2006
    #17
  18. TW

    Pszemol Guest

    "TW" <todd.howardwilliams@bellnet.ca> wrote in message news:u8XXf.344$sh3.24649@news20.bellglobal.com...
    > I guess my understanding of these organisims is a bit naive. I assume
    > that when it is fully inflated and stationary that it is happy. This
    > may not be the case as you have explained. However, if that is the case
    > I think we can say the same thing for every SW aquarium animal. I'm
    > sure the would all be happier in the ocean but that would not make this
    > hobby viable would it? Thanks for the info. I appreciate it and your
    > help from the past. I believe it was your website that gave me alot of
    > info when I first got into this hobby.


    Could you sort things up with the type of your anemone, please?
    Were you talking about a carpet type anemone, like Boomer
    interpreted, or were you talking about rose variation of BTA ?
     
    Pszemol, Apr 3, 2006
    #18
  19. TW

    TW Guest

    Pszemol wrote:

    > "TW" <todd.howardwilliams@bellnet.ca> wrote in message
    > news:u8XXf.344$sh3.24649@news20.bellglobal.com...
    >
    >> I guess my understanding of these organisims is a bit naive. I assume
    >> that when it is fully inflated and stationary that it is happy. This
    >> may not be the case as you have explained. However, if that is the
    >> case I think we can say the same thing for every SW aquarium animal.
    >> I'm sure the would all be happier in the ocean but that would not make
    >> this hobby viable would it? Thanks for the info. I appreciate it and
    >> your help from the past. I believe it was your website that gave me
    >> alot of info when I first got into this hobby.

    >
    >
    > Could you sort things up with the type of your anemone, please?
    > Were you talking about a carpet type anemone, like Boomer
    > interpreted, or were you talking about rose variation of BTA ?

    I was told it was a rose anenome. It is salmon pink on the tenticles,
    The tips are purplish , the mouth is lime green. On some days the
    tenticles expand to have bulbus ends like a ball.

    like this: http://www.berlinmethod.com/images/photos/anenome.jpg
    or this: http://www.oc-creative.com/7gal/475rose1.jpg

    Both images show what I have.

    Todd
     
    TW, Apr 3, 2006
    #19
  20. TW

    Boomer Guest

    Sorry but Roses are carpets, there are long tentacle carpets and short tentacle carpets.
    The longs include, Entacmeae and Heteractis for example

    I'm quite familiar that a rose is color variant of a Entacmaea quadricolor
    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    "Don Geddis" <don@geddis.org> wrote in message news:87odzjc0jq.fsf@geddis.org...
    : "Boomer" <wcwing@nospamchartermi.net> wrote on Sun, 2 Apr 2006 :
    : > an aquarium is a stressful environment for most of the large anemones
    : > particular the carpets, of which a Rose is. It is my fault to have not be
    : > more clear and I should have not said anemones but carpet anemones, which
    : > are almost all sexual.
    :
    : The rose anemone most people mean is a red color morph of a bubble-tip anemone,
    : aka Entacmaea quadricolor. That is not a carpet anemone, i.e. one of the ones
    : that is a large flat dinner plate in shape with short stubbly tentacles, and
    : usually buries its foot in sand (instead of adhering to rock). For example,
    : Stichodactyla sp., e.g. S. gigantea or S. haddoni.
    :
    : > Some info form the Breeder's Registry
    : > "4. Species Specific Information
    : > Entacmaea quadricolor.
    :
    : Yeah, that's a rose anemone ... but not a carpet.
    :
    : -- Don
    : _______________________________________________________________________________
    : Don Geddis don@geddis.org http://reef.geddis.org/
    : Blame: The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures.
    : -- Despair.com
     
    Boomer, Apr 3, 2006
    #20
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