Rose anenome splitting

Discussion in 'Reef Fishes' started by TW, Apr 1, 2006.

  1. TW

    Pszemol Guest

    "AverageSchmuck" <jschmoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e5pd32l18u1e33c1rt393ah9n8q80ab7f2@4ax.com...
    > Thread is done as far as I am concerned for me ..
    > Thank you for killing the conversation!


    Do not thank me - this choice is only yours :)
     
    Pszemol, Apr 7, 2006
    #81
    1. Advertisements

  2. Pszemol wrote:

    > So you are saying that behaviour of covering its own poop is NOT an
    > instinct ?
    > That is is learned from the parents. Do I understand you correctly, Jaime ?


    That is correct. If you take a kitten away from its mother early enough, it will
    not cover its feces even when grown. The mother trains her kittens.

    George Patterson
    Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
    your slightly older self.
     
    George Patterson, Apr 8, 2006
    #82
    1. Advertisements

  3. TW

    Pszemol Guest

    "George Patterson" <grpphoto@verizon.net> wrote in message news:4gDZf.877$Fp4.349@trnddc01...
    > Pszemol wrote:
    >
    >> So you are saying that behaviour of covering its own poop is NOT an
    >> instinct ?
    >> That is is learned from the parents. Do I understand you correctly, Jaime ?

    >
    > That is correct. If you take a kitten away from its mother early enough, it will
    > not cover its feces even when grown. The mother trains her kittens.


    OK, so it was a bad example of an instinct if we talk about cats...

    But I was not talking about cats - I was talking about dogs, doing their
    thing with rear legs, kicking some grass over their poop. The habbit
    looking like their want to cover their poop with sand/grass...
    I have never had a dog, so it is hard for me to interprete this behaviour.
    What dogs do when they kick some grass over their poop with rear legs?

    Is this an instinct or is it something else ?
     
    Pszemol, Apr 8, 2006
    #83
  4. TW

    Pszemol Guest

    "AverageSchmuck" <jschmoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:itvc321kjj6d9i8fi38pcutvpeuobcgohj@4ax.com...
    > "blind instinct" ? define that all I find is instinct


    I would loosly define it as a pure kind of instinct.
    The one which is undistracted with an even smallest thought :)
    Of course it is not a scientific term, it was a figure of speach.
     
    Pszemol, Apr 8, 2006
    #84
  5. TW

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    Maybe that dog was raised by a cat :)
    Dogs normaly don't do that. Not any that I've know of
    anyway. Maybe there's some breeds that do that, but I've
    never seen it.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Pszemol wrote on 4/7/2006 10:38 PM:

    >>
    >> That is correct. If you take a kitten away from its mother early
    >> enough, it will not cover its feces even when grown. The mother trains
    >> her kittens.

    >
    > OK, so it was a bad example of an instinct if we talk about cats...
    >
    > But I was not talking about cats - I was talking about dogs, doing their
    > thing with rear legs, kicking some grass over their poop. The habbit
    > looking like their want to cover their poop with sand/grass...
    > I have never had a dog, so it is hard for me to interprete this behaviour.
    > What dogs do when they kick some grass over their poop with rear legs?
    > Is this an instinct or is it something else ?
     
    Wayne Sallee, Apr 8, 2006
    #85
  6. TW

    Pszemol Guest

    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    news:4437C83A.8010201@WayneSallee.com...
    > Maybe that dog was raised by a cat :)
    > Dogs normaly don't do that. Not any that I've know of anyway. Maybe
    > there's some breeds that do that, but I've never seen it.


    I was talking with one dog owner originating from Europe,
    like me, and he has confirmed my observation. He has told me,
    that what I have seen is an act of marking a territory. Do not
    know details, or do not care about them too much since I have
    no dogs, but the fact is that I was not imagining this :)

    Maybe dogs who are neutered as puppies loose
    this instinct - who knows, I am not a dog person :)

    Anyway, as Mr. Schmuck has noted here, an instinct is
    an inborn pattern of *behavior* that is characteristic of a species
    and this is what we as aquarists observe in our aquaria
    when we see a clownfish feeding an anemone. It is not required
    for an action to be intentional, conscious, deliberated to be
    called "feeding" and many animals without brains show feeding
    response to an external stimuli. So I really still do not quite
    understand why would Boomer state anemone fish do not feed
    anemones, its a myth, if so many aquarist have seen it with their
    own eyes... Puzzled!
     
    Pszemol, Apr 8, 2006
    #86
  7. Pszemol wrote:

    > But I was not talking about cats - I was talking about dogs, doing their
    > thing with rear legs, kicking some grass over their poop. The habbit
    > looking like their want to cover their poop with sand/grass...
    > I have never had a dog, so it is hard for me to interprete this behaviour.
    > What dogs do when they kick some grass over their poop with rear legs?
    > Is this an instinct or is it something else ?


    I've had several dogs. Only one of them (a Scottish Terrier) ever did this at
    all, and he didn't do it every time. The coonhound I have now never does this.
    We've had her 4 years.

    George Patterson
    Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
    your slightly older self.
     
    George Patterson, Apr 8, 2006
    #87
  8. TW

    Pszemol Guest

    "George Patterson" <grpphoto@verizon.net> wrote in message news:USUZf.3865$WL4.1164@trnddc07...
    > Pszemol wrote:
    >
    >> But I was not talking about cats - I was talking about dogs, doing their
    >> thing with rear legs, kicking some grass over their poop. The habbit
    >> looking like their want to cover their poop with sand/grass...
    >> I have never had a dog, so it is hard for me to interprete this behaviour.
    >> What dogs do when they kick some grass over their poop with rear legs?
    >> Is this an instinct or is it something else ?

    >
    > I've had several dogs. Only one of them (a Scottish Terrier)
    > ever did this at all, and he didn't do it every time.


    Well, I am glad I hear about some dogs actually do what I saw...
    You are the 2nd source now :) It is not that bad with me after all...
    I was almost worried about my mental health after Mr. Schmuck
    had accused me of mixing cats with dogs :)))
     
    Pszemol, Apr 9, 2006
    #88
  9. TW

    Boomer Guest

    I see you are still dragging on the issue post after post, you just can't quite until you
    are sure of yourself > Ok I got back my credit now. Your post here are getting sicker by
    the day and you say I'm personnel. Please go look in the mirror. You do not debate here
    Psz, it is you starting arguments and needing the last say. When things do not go your way
    you bash and belittle them.




    Just for shits and giggles

    "Calling you Jaime was the 2nd agenda I had - wanted to throw this
    and see how you react. You know, I can multitask a little :)"

    Ok, it is OK for you to do this but not for someone else to see how you would react.

    Does this guy have to pass some kind of Psz test ?

    So far he has beat you to death, so bash him and name call

    *behavior* that is characteristic of a species

    Yes, it is called Innate behavior

    : It is not required
    : for an action to be intentional, conscious, deliberated to be
    : called "feeding" and many animals without brains show feeding
    : response to an external stimuli.

    That is correct

    So I really still do not quite
    : understand why would Boomer state anemone fish do not feed
    : anemones, its a myth, if so many aquarist have seen it with their
    : own eyes... Puzzled!

    You are puzzled for sure. YOU think the clown is intentional, consciously, deliberately
    feeding the anemone because it needs to be fed.You think and believe that through most of
    this thread. All know that . That is where we part and has always been my view, that they
    are NOT intentional, consciously, deliberately feeding the anemone, because it needs to be
    fed. And that was not your original intent from the get go and almost all others know
    that. You know it and so do all others but for some unknown reason you go on and on and
    on. Yet you continue to spin things. Do you think you have lost that much ground. It is
    all your continuous arguing that looses your ground.You need to stop spinning you are
    getting dizzy.


    __My clown is feeding its anemone_

    It is the phrasing of the sentence that is misleading. And when people say "my clownfish
    is feeding my anemone" the intent of the person is that the clown knows it is giving food,
    feeding is anemone, he/she needs it.

    Being you are an expert on clown fish behavior why is the clown "feeding" the anemone a
    wooden stick ? It is on a flippin' video

    It is not required
    : for an action to be intentional, conscious, deliberated to be
    : called "feeding" and many animals without brains show feeding
    : response to an external stimuli.

    Correct but you still believe the clown is intentional, consciously, deliberately feeding
    the anemone because it needs to be fed. It knows it is feeding its anemone.

    YES OR NO




    "if so many aquarist have seen it with their
    : own eyes... "

    Just because one sees an act DOES NOT mean they understand it.

    If you polled people in this hobby on " my clown is feeding its anemone" and what they
    meant by that statement. You would get an answer something like this; " the clown knows
    the anemone needs to be fed so he feeds it". 99% of the time

    Lets throw this at you

    How about if all these action of innate behavior all stem from different modes or levels
    of "threat response behavior". These threats are usually removed by the anemone. That is
    why things/objects/large chunks of food are brought to the anemone. The clown does not
    know the difference usually, so most are treated the same usually. Since it is an innate
    behavior, it would continue even if home was a rock, lift tube or what ever. So, the fish
    would not really be" feeding" the anemone, although some may end up as food.

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message news:e18j9o$p23$1@news.onet.pl...
    : "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    : news:4437C83A.8010201@WayneSallee.com...
    : > Maybe that dog was raised by a cat :)
    : > Dogs normaly don't do that. Not any that I've know of anyway. Maybe
    : > there's some breeds that do that, but I've never seen it.
    :
    : I was talking with one dog owner originating from Europe,
    : like me, and he has confirmed my observation. He has told me,
    : that what I have seen is an act of marking a territory. Do not
    : know details, or do not care about them too much since I have
    : no dogs, but the fact is that I was not imagining this :)
    :
    : Maybe dogs who are neutered as puppies loose
    : this instinct - who knows, I am not a dog person :)
    :
    : Anyway, as Mr. Schmuck has noted here, an instinct is
    : an inborn pattern of *behavior* that is characteristic of a species
    : and this is what we as aquarists observe in our aquaria
    : when we see a clownfish feeding an anemone. It is not required
    : for an action to be intentional, conscious, deliberated to be
    : called "feeding" and many animals without brains show feeding
    : response to an external stimuli. So I really still do not quite
    : understand why would Boomer state anemone fish do not feed
    : anemones, its a myth, if so many aquarist have seen it with their
    : own eyes... Puzzled!
    :
     
    Boomer, Apr 9, 2006
    #89
  10. TW

    Wayne Sallee Guest

    I have also seen a fish kill another fish or shrimp, or
    come across such, and take it and feed it to an anemone or
    large polyp coral, even though it did not have any
    relationship to the coral or anemone, and it's quarters
    was in another part of the tank. But the fish did so
    because it knew that the coral or anemone would eat it, so
    it was an easy way to dispose of the body, and/or finish
    it off.

    Wayne Sallee
    Wayne's Pets
    Wayne@WaynesPets.com


    Boomer wrote on 4/8/2006 7:45 PM:
    > I see you are still dragging on the issue post after post, you just can't quite until you
    > are sure of yourself > Ok I got back my credit now. Your post here are getting sicker by
    > the day and you say I'm personnel. Please go look in the mirror. You do not debate here
    > Psz, it is you starting arguments and needing the last say. When things do not go your way
    > you bash and belittle them.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Just for shits and giggles
    >
    > "Calling you Jaime was the 2nd agenda I had - wanted to throw this
    > and see how you react. You know, I can multitask a little :)"
    >
    > Ok, it is OK for you to do this but not for someone else to see how you would react.
    >
    > Does this guy have to pass some kind of Psz test ?
    >
    > So far he has beat you to death, so bash him and name call
    >
    > *behavior* that is characteristic of a species
    >
    > Yes, it is called Innate behavior
    >
    > : It is not required
    > : for an action to be intentional, conscious, deliberated to be
    > : called "feeding" and many animals without brains show feeding
    > : response to an external stimuli.
    >
    > That is correct
    >
    > So I really still do not quite
    > : understand why would Boomer state anemone fish do not feed
    > : anemones, its a myth, if so many aquarist have seen it with their
    > : own eyes... Puzzled!
    >
    > You are puzzled for sure. YOU think the clown is intentional, consciously, deliberately
    > feeding the anemone because it needs to be fed.You think and believe that through most of
    > this thread. All know that . That is where we part and has always been my view, that they
    > are NOT intentional, consciously, deliberately feeding the anemone, because it needs to be
    > fed. And that was not your original intent from the get go and almost all others know
    > that. You know it and so do all others but for some unknown reason you go on and on and
    > on. Yet you continue to spin things. Do you think you have lost that much ground. It is
    > all your continuous arguing that looses your ground.You need to stop spinning you are
    > getting dizzy.
    >
    >
    > __My clown is feeding its anemone_
    >
    > It is the phrasing of the sentence that is misleading. And when people say "my clownfish
    > is feeding my anemone" the intent of the person is that the clown knows it is giving food,
    > feeding is anemone, he/she needs it.
    >
    > Being you are an expert on clown fish behavior why is the clown "feeding" the anemone a
    > wooden stick ? It is on a flippin' video
    >
    > It is not required
    > : for an action to be intentional, conscious, deliberated to be
    > : called "feeding" and many animals without brains show feeding
    > : response to an external stimuli.
    >
    > Correct but you still believe the clown is intentional, consciously, deliberately feeding
    > the anemone because it needs to be fed. It knows it is feeding its anemone.
    >
    > YES OR NO
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "if so many aquarist have seen it with their
    > : own eyes... "
    >
    > Just because one sees an act DOES NOT mean they understand it.
    >
    > If you polled people in this hobby on " my clown is feeding its anemone" and what they
    > meant by that statement. You would get an answer something like this; " the clown knows
    > the anemone needs to be fed so he feeds it". 99% of the time
    >
    > Lets throw this at you
    >
    > How about if all these action of innate behavior all stem from different modes or levels
    > of "threat response behavior". These threats are usually removed by the anemone. That is
    > why things/objects/large chunks of food are brought to the anemone. The clown does not
    > know the difference usually, so most are treated the same usually. Since it is an innate
    > behavior, it would continue even if home was a rock, lift tube or what ever. So, the fish
    > would not really be" feeding" the anemone, although some may end up as food.
    >
     
    Wayne Sallee, Apr 14, 2006
    #90
  11. TW

    Boomer Guest

    Yes, still but sill a threat response pure and simple

    --
    Boomer

    If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

    Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
    Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

    Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
    http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

    Want to See More ! The Coral Realm
    http://www.coralrealm.com



    "Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
    news:443FCFB8.3020306@WayneSallee.com...
    :I have also seen a fish kill another fish or shrimp, or
    : come across such, and take it and feed it to an anemone or
    : large polyp coral, even though it did not have any
    : relationship to the coral or anemone, and it's quarters
    : was in another part of the tank. But the fish did so
    : because it knew that the coral or anemone would eat it, so
    : it was an easy way to dispose of the body, and/or finish
    : it off.
    :
    : Wayne Sallee
    : Wayne's Pets
    : Wayne@WaynesPets.com
    :
    :
    : Boomer wrote on 4/8/2006 7:45 PM:
    : > I see you are still dragging on the issue post after post, you just can't quite until
    you
    : > are sure of yourself > Ok I got back my credit now. Your post here are getting sicker
    by
    : > the day and you say I'm personnel. Please go look in the mirror. You do not debate
    here
    : > Psz, it is you starting arguments and needing the last say. When things do not go your
    way
    : > you bash and belittle them.
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : > Just for shits and giggles
    : >
    : > "Calling you Jaime was the 2nd agenda I had - wanted to throw this
    : > and see how you react. You know, I can multitask a little :)"
    : >
    : > Ok, it is OK for you to do this but not for someone else to see how you would react.
    : >
    : > Does this guy have to pass some kind of Psz test ?
    : >
    : > So far he has beat you to death, so bash him and name call
    : >
    : > *behavior* that is characteristic of a species
    : >
    : > Yes, it is called Innate behavior
    : >
    : > : It is not required
    : > : for an action to be intentional, conscious, deliberated to be
    : > : called "feeding" and many animals without brains show feeding
    : > : response to an external stimuli.
    : >
    : > That is correct
    : >
    : > So I really still do not quite
    : > : understand why would Boomer state anemone fish do not feed
    : > : anemones, its a myth, if so many aquarist have seen it with their
    : > : own eyes... Puzzled!
    : >
    : > You are puzzled for sure. YOU think the clown is intentional, consciously,
    deliberately
    : > feeding the anemone because it needs to be fed.You think and believe that through most
    of
    : > this thread. All know that . That is where we part and has always been my view, that
    they
    : > are NOT intentional, consciously, deliberately feeding the anemone, because it needs
    to be
    : > fed. And that was not your original intent from the get go and almost all others know
    : > that. You know it and so do all others but for some unknown reason you go on and on
    and
    : > on. Yet you continue to spin things. Do you think you have lost that much ground. It
    is
    : > all your continuous arguing that looses your ground.You need to stop spinning you are
    : > getting dizzy.
    : >
    : >
    : > __My clown is feeding its anemone_
    : >
    : > It is the phrasing of the sentence that is misleading. And when people say "my
    clownfish
    : > is feeding my anemone" the intent of the person is that the clown knows it is giving
    food,
    : > feeding is anemone, he/she needs it.
    : >
    : > Being you are an expert on clown fish behavior why is the clown "feeding" the anemone
    a
    : > wooden stick ? It is on a flippin' video
    : >
    : > It is not required
    : > : for an action to be intentional, conscious, deliberated to be
    : > : called "feeding" and many animals without brains show feeding
    : > : response to an external stimuli.
    : >
    : > Correct but you still believe the clown is intentional, consciously, deliberately
    feeding
    : > the anemone because it needs to be fed. It knows it is feeding its anemone.
    : >
    : > YES OR NO
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : > "if so many aquarist have seen it with their
    : > : own eyes... "
    : >
    : > Just because one sees an act DOES NOT mean they understand it.
    : >
    : > If you polled people in this hobby on " my clown is feeding its anemone" and what
    they
    : > meant by that statement. You would get an answer something like this; " the clown
    knows
    : > the anemone needs to be fed so he feeds it". 99% of the time
    : >
    : > Lets throw this at you
    : >
    : > How about if all these action of innate behavior all stem from different modes or
    levels
    : > of "threat response behavior". These threats are usually removed by the anemone. That
    is
    : > why things/objects/large chunks of food are brought to the anemone. The clown does not
    : > know the difference usually, so most are treated the same usually. Since it is an
    innate
    : > behavior, it would continue even if home was a rock, lift tube or what ever. So, the
    fish
    : > would not really be" feeding" the anemone, although some may end up as food.
    : >
     
    Boomer, Apr 15, 2006
    #91
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.