someone new to salt planing to build a sump+undergravel jets

[Pwny]

Ok so I have been keeping freshwater cichlids for a long time now and my girlfriend keeps trying to get me to try out saltwater so I have done some looking up on it and hears what I am thinking of doing maybe sometime late summer. Let me know what yall think or what I should change. What I am thinking of going for is a column of live rock around the center part of the tank leaving some free room on sides for fish to swim. Also with this tank I just wanted to go slow and have some fun with it and try things I haven’t done yet aka sump and ugj.

Saltwater Fishtank Project
55 Gallon Main Tank
29 Gallon Sump
84 total gallons

Plumbing
Hole size on bulkheads 1 ¾’
Down pipe size 1”
Min vertical length 9”
GPM 10.0
GPH 600
Turnover 7.0
¾ inch return to under gravel jet system

Tank dimension 48x13x20
Overhead View

Light blue show’s water flow direction
Dark blue shows intake position
-jets near intake are for water flow behind live rock

Sump dimensions 30x12x18
Front view

-Black holes are intake/out for water flow drilled on back side of the tank
-Black box is pump for return and where heater will be placed
-Gray is filter wool
-Red is protein skimmer
-the return pipe will have a Ball valve, check valve and also a uv sterilizer
-I will probably end up putting some live rock in the part that water flows into the sump

 

[Bifferwine]

Hi and welcome!
I'm not sure I understand the undergravel jet system. That is not a system commonly used for saltwater. Can you explain it or post a picture of it? Is that like an undergravel filter?

 

[sen5241b]

Under-gravel filters as used with freshwater systems will cause problems when used with salt water systems --I know I tried it. HOWEVER, I did prop my rock up on hidden PVC and I have a Koralia pump pushing water under the rock to prevent detritus pockets from building up. I think this did a lot to help keep my water quality good.

One thing I did not try was to reverse the flow thru an undergravel and have it push water from under live rubble --this might just work out but it would be an experiment. With this setup you would not be able to use sand and sand looks nicer.

 

[daugherty]

Hi and welcome!
I'm not sure I understand the undergravel jet system. That is not a system commonly used for saltwater. Can you explain it or post a picture of it? Is that like an undergravel filter?

i am thinking it is like a closed loop but without drilling the tank to acomplish it. but i may be wrong about that

 

[Pwny]

a lot hook up ugj to power heads but i want to use it as the return from the sump filter to try and even out the flow of the water over the column of live rock in the center or the tank. i am going to be drilling tank and putting in a box near mid so i can hide everything behind the rockwork. wish i had a pic i could post of it but this is just planing still :P

 

[Pwny]

you think sand would be compleatly out of the question with the jets pointed up at the rockwork?

 

[Bifferwine]

Your sand will be blowing all over the place.

May I ask why you are going with that type of setup instead of one that is more commonly used and is known to be successful? Just trying to experiment?

In a saltwater tank, the bacteria and critters that live in the sand are very important. If you have jets coming up from below the sand, the sand is going to be in a constant state of disturbance.

 

[Pwny]

i havent seen it in saltwater i just thought it would be good for flow, thats why im posting here befor i try anything wanted to see what would work and what wont.

 

[coolhandgoose]

I'm a little confused about the undergravel jets. You show about twelve nozzles and you're planning a return rate of 600GPH, which would mean about 50 gph coming out of each of those jets. I don't think that's enough power to even move a grain of sand. A tank your size would generally have about 2 koralia 3's in it which produce 850GPH and maybe a koralia 2 as well at 600 gph to supplement water movement. I think for overall water movement that system isn't going to be near powerful enough.

 

[coolhandgoose]

Okay well obviously it can move sand but you see my point.

 

[Pwny]

what about 1/2 pipe?

 

[coolhandgoose]

Disregarding head loss for a pump, if you are planning a 600gph return through 12 different nozzles, that's only 50 gph per nozzle, doesn't matter what size pipe you use the pump can only pump so much. I have a koralia 1 in my nano tank which is supposedly 240 gph, and I can tell you that the flow is VERY weak.

 

[Pwny]

you think there would be a safe flow rate to up it to w/o creating to much disturbance in sand?

 

[coolhandgoose]

Personally, I wouldn't do it. I would just have one return line, then have a few powerheads for water movement in the display. Otherwise i think you're on your own since no one here has ever tried that type of set up.

 

[coolhandgoose]

Check out other people's build threads for some ideas on plumbing and see how they do it. There are a lot of people here with beautiful tanks so I'd be inclined to do what they do.

 

[reeffreak]

I confused as hell but this is interesting.

How many holes are going to be drilled and where,bottom,back glass?I originally was going to do a close loop through the bottom glass.According to the tank builder the more holes the thicker acrylic.I originally wanted eight total(2 drain,2 return,4 close loops) and the acrylic was going to have to be 1-1/2'' thick.Can you imagine how thick that is...I had to scratch that plan.Too many holes and you are going to have some serious structural integrity.

 

[VAreef]

I think I have an idea as to what you are trying for. I made a return spray bar for my tank that sits along the bottom in the back and sprays all return flow across the bottom. If your going to make one like you have diagramed I can see 2 issues. First it's very complicated with lots of joints to measure and build. Plus it will only prevent stuff from building up right around the jets which if the jets are under a rock they will just dig a hole in the sand around them. I can also tell you there is no way to build a tank with no low flow areas that will get some buildup of crap. But hey the crabs gotta eat. Nice job on being creative though keep it up.

 

[Pwny]

as far as holes there will be 2 in back of sump 1 return 1 intake. and as fas as top tank 1-2 holes 1 for drain to sump in a box i wana put mid top and for the jet return it dosent have to have a hole but it could to have a cleaner look probaly near top mid.
VA your right it could be cleaned up as far as turns i was just plying around with it. as far as jets go tho i want sand as substrate each nosle for jets will be placed at 45 deg up and then take a small peice of pvc boil it and crunch it for the nose. a lot of people use this kind of setup in a african cichlid tanks with sand but they hook it up to a powerhead. thats what gave me the idea to try it for saltwater

 

[VAreef]

I'm all for it. If it weren't for creative thought our tanks would be made of stone. Like someone else said be careful putting to many holes in your tank though. It most definitly weakens it. 1 hole for a drain would be more than enough in a 55gal.

 

[reeffreak]

Interesting and still confuse.Maybe,I just sit back and watch what unfolds.

Remember what someone (I forgot who) said earlier.With that many outlets you are going to need way,way more than a pump that does 600gph.All those bends and water outlets are going to slow the flow to a trickle.