Substrate replacement questions/concerns.

phastroh

Do Not Listen To Me!!!
Ok I am not going to do this because I do not think it would work but let me run this plan by you on how I could do the following all within 5 hours say.

The idea is to take my 80 gallon apart to accomplish the following.

1) Remove Mantis(s)
2) Remove Eel
3) Remove Crushed Coral and replace with sand.
4) Use less rock in the tank.

Set up follows.

80 Gal Bowfront
160 Pounds of rock
80 pounds of crushed coral that is part sand part coral.
5 fish
2 stars
2 anemones
1 Eel
Clean up Crew
10 Corals(not glued down)


Supplies

55 Gal Brute
5 Gallon buckets for rocks
40 Gallon can for waste(water and coral.
Shop Vac
10 Gal Tank
2.5 gal tank


Plan

First mix up as much water as I can in the 55 gal Brute, say 50 gallons and maybe get a second can to have 100 gallon on hand.

1) Remove Corals and place them all in the 2.5 gallon Aqueon Tank with no heater.

2) Remove all the rock and place it into buckets and put the anemone rocks safely on top so I don't have to remove them.

3) Drain water down about 75%

4) Remove fish and put them into the 10 gal tank(2 Damsels, 2 Clowns, one Coral Beauty) I was thinking of putting them Damsel in the coral tank just in case but they only chase each other. I can even bag the fish if I have to.

Put my heater in the tank and a small powerhead I have in there.

5) Remove Eel and place in bag for possible trip to store for trade.

6) Remove as much Crushed Coral as I possible can and vac the rest out while trying not to totally remove all the water.

7) Quickly try to find the Mantis as I put the rock back in the tank. I can try to take one rock at a time into my sink and search for it, unless I hear it and or know where it may be.

8) While I am doing this I can have my brother placing the rock we know is ok back into the tank until we have decided this is how we want it and then begin pouring the sand in.

9) Continue adding the sand and rock until we have it all back in.

10) After that using the glass and rock to slow the water we refill the tank using the same water that we took out to fill 1/2 the tank and then put the newly made saltwater back into the tank.

11) After tank clears up put the fish back in the tank and then the corals and Clean up crew.

My biggest concern is the bacteria loss from the Crush Coral and the rocks that sit in the air or have RO/DI water on them while I look for the Mantis.

I am also concerned about the length of time I can leave the fish in the 10 Gal with just a heater and powerhead.

I have 2 bottles of Dr. Tims One and Only but I would not think that I would need it for this operation.

I am not convinced to do this yet and would be very nervous to kill any fish in the process.

I do think it would be better for my Nitrate control in the long run though.

My ultimate plan was to just leave it as is until I get my bigger tank and then just cycle it and then just move any rock I wanted and then acclimate the fish over to the new tank.

Any thoughts or comments.
 
Doing this the way you describe will kick off a re-cycle of your tank, guaranteed. Your better off syphoning out your crushed coral over time in preparation for your upgrade. No since in doing it until then.
 
Ill just hold off till I get the new tank.

I can't risk the fish but they will be fine for now.
 
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I agree with Fast on this one...siphon out the cc/sand, a little at a time, preferably while doing a water change. I would remove close to 25% of the substrate each water change.
 
I can't get to it.

Most of it is under the rocks. Just look at the pix here. https://www.livingreefs.com/my-new-paired-clowns-t33946.html

I could only get to the stuff in the front which is not that much.

I will just leave it till I can get a new tank set up. I had already figured I would have the new tank cycle and be ready for fish and put 2 at a time in there.

It will be 125-150 gal so 2 small fish is nothing. Plus the rock is coming right from here so it is really only the sand that will need to cycle in the new tank. Only rock going in the new tank is dry rock.
 
Just a quick question.

What would be the cause of the tank recycling. The new sand or what.

If I use the Dr. TIms won't that make the cycle finish in one day anyway.

Ok If I don't use the Dr. Tims what part of this will cause the tank to recycle if all the rock will only be held in the tank water with heater and circulation as I search for the mantis.

In the end why would taking out the crushed coral slowly make a diff. I was going to clear the tank of it in one go and just put the new sand and the same live rock back in the tank.

Again please tell me where the cycle will come from so I at least know.
 
Not the new sand -- but you stirring up and releasing crap that was trapped in the old substrate.

I don't have first-hand experience with the Dr. Tim's stuff. You can try it, but I wouldn't count on it keeping the cycle down to 1 day. I know you've had success with it before, so maybe it will work.

You want to remove the crushed coral slowly, so you don't release all the crap that's trapped in it all at one time. That can crash your tank if there's lots of junk in it. If you remove it a little at a time, you are releasing less gunk into your water each time, and the bacteria in your tank only has to process a little at a time.
 
I get the releasing crap into the tank but if you read my plan it will not have any of that left in the tank.

Please read it but let me simplify that part.

I was going to take out the water that is in the tank now and keep half of it to put back in the tank with 50% new water.

When I remove the Crushed Coral it will be out with all the water I don't take out prior to removing the the coral.

1) Remove 75% of the water
2) Take out livestock and rock and put them in holding.
3) Remove Crushed Coral and remaining water.
4) Put rock back in
5) Put new sand.
6) Fill 50 % old tank water
7)Fill 50% new mixed water
8) Put fish back in after checking water next day.

My concern was the fish in the 10 gal overnight.
 
The only thing left in the bottom of the tank will be a tiny amount a residue the shop vac can't get out.

I want to find the Mantis and get his arse out, plus I can get the Eel out as well if I choose.

I am just worried the tank wont be able to handle the 5 fish with all new sand but the 160 pounds of rock should be able to keep the bacteria it has now to handle them.

I will also not be putting the Eel back in so that is a load off right there.

Will this be possible. I was only going to add the Dr. Tims to get bacteria back in overnight.
 
Again please tell me where the cycle will come from so I at least know.

By you removing everything at once. All the phosphates, nitrates, etc that is trapped in the substrate, and LR will be released once you start moving them in and out.

I have no idea who this Dr. Tim guy is, but I would not put any stock into a claim of his additive keeping your cycle down to only a day. Sounds like a sham to me.
 
Ok.

I do not have any phosphates in my rock.

And remember I am draining the tank 75% and then removing everything.

I am vacuuming out all the coral and remaining water and tossing it.

The tank water I put back in will be the water I pumped out like a water change.

I am not saying I am gonna do it I just want to be clear that I am not going to be mixing all the crushed coral around and leaving it settle on anything. That is the last thing I take out.

I was going to rinse the tank down with RO/DI before I put all the stuff back.
 
Your plan sounds good. The danger is when you have water in the tank, the crud gets released into the water. If you are avoiding doing that, then it sounds fine.
 
Yeah that is the idea. I am not gonna leave it.

I am draining 75% of the water like a water change. The removing all the rocks, fish and critters and coral. I will use the drained water to place all the fish, rocks etc in while they wait.

The rest of the water will be removed when I vac the coral out.

I will then put fresh mixed(not fresh but 2 days mixed) water in the tank and top off with the old tank water.

Shart I may even just put 80 Gallon of new water, I mean why not.

The only thing going back in the tank with bacteria on it is the rocks.

I am just worried if they sit out for a day in the old tank water in buckets I can't heat they will all have bacteria die off.

I was thinking if I have my brother helping me and we move turbo style I can be done within 5 hours tops if not 3.

Drain tank - Time doesn't matter.
Remove all rocks and fish - 20 mintues top
Remove Eel - 10 min tops
Vac water and coral and clean and revac - 30 min tops.
Put in sand - 15 minutes tops.
Put rock back in - 20 min tops
Refill with fresh saltwater - 1 hour tops

That is like 2.5 hours and we will move quick since he or I can be Mantis searching and I can put pouring the sand in.

I was gonna put the rock in first but I put the coral in first and have an Eel with 3 holes coming up all over and no issues. It is 160 pounds but I may only put 130 back in so I have an open area.

So my big question is this.

If I remove all the C and it won't be mixed into the water TRUST ME will the tank be able to support the 5 fish?

I am mostly concerned with that because I know the CC releasing into the water is a non issue because I am making sure it is vaced with the water left in there and all new water will go back in.
 
Yeah they will be but we want to one at a time hunt the mantis down.

I never searched all the rocks before but we are not putting a rock back in the tank that hasn't been searched. I will hopefully not ruin anything doing that.

I had taken out like 7 before and searched them and never had an issue with die off.
 
Even searching really hard, you may not find it. They are so crafty. And I have lost fish in my rocks before when moving tanks! It's amazing how well the animals can hide.
 
No way he is MINE!!!! I already have a good idea where he is.

I know it is not in the front area rocks and thanks to the Eel I now know a lot of holes I didn't know about.

My plan is to take certain ones out and certain ones to put on the side.

I know where almost every hole in my rocks are and only a few have holes that are complicated. Most have only one hole or no hole.

I already know one was purple and the other was rainbow. I was going to get my air compressor but I thought it may kill it and then I will never find it.

I will try canada dry soda water I guess or just some RO/DI.

I HAVE to get him out or both. I think I killed one by mistake. Let's put it this way. I will be taking the ones with no hiding places to the side. The others will be blasted until it comes out.

I am hoping he will click and give himself away.

You think the 5 fish will be ok in the 10 gal for a bit. They all get along great in the tank. I will probably put a rock in there with them to give them some privacy heehee.
 
Oh yeah I have not thought about the best substrate to put in.

What say you?
Also I have 80Lbs of CC but do I really need 80lbs of new sand. It is like 2-3 inches deep in the 80Gal Bow.

80 Gal bows do not have the same floor space as a regular tank. 55Gals look almost as big to me.
 
I would use aragonite sand. It doesn't have to be live sand, dry aragonite is fine. I generally use 1 lb sand per gallon. That will give you a 1 to 2 inch deep sandbed.
 
Ok so I didn't think using Live Sand would be the best idea because it could cause a cycle.

I found Carib Sea Dry Aragonite Sugar sized for 90lb $90.

Anyone use it and is it a good idea? Also is it true about the cycle from the live sand?
 
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