sump design

[sagent3000]

here is my idea for my sump tell me what you guys think
the dimension are
60" long 16" tall 36" wide

 

[RyanG]

Sargeant are you looking for a low flow fuge? The kind good for growing pods. By the drawing Im going to assume that you are running your skimmer external? I personally wouldnt make it so "complicated" it you are looking for low flow why not do it overflow, return and the fuge. You could make the fuge section a little taller and use a small powerhead to pump water into the fuge and let it gravity overflow. Just a thought.

 

[Rcpilot]

Here is my idea for a sump/refugium on my 90g tank.

It's a 29g tank. It's 30" long x 12" wide x 18" tall.

It will have large overflows on the tank. Probably 1.5" bulkheads. The overflow on the left will run to the refugium, but there will be a valve to slow flow into the refugium. The rest of the water would be diverted into the skimmer section.

On the right is the other overflow that goes directly into the skimmer section.

The return pump is in the middle.

I haven't figured out how tall to make the baffles. I will have a MINIMUM 6" DSB. I'd rather have 8" and will most likely make it that deep. My choice of skimmer is going to determine the baffle height on that side.

This is basically my "filter". The tank will get circulation from a closed loop. I'm torn up about how many holes to drill for the closed loop. I'd like about 10 or 15 holes with switching valves and a 3000GPH pump to move the water back and forth in the tank on a timer. But I'm not sure I want to drill that many holes and buy that many bulkheads. Every one of them could potentially crack the tank when you're drilling it. Or you could have a leaking bulkhead later. Neither would be pleasant.

I want to make the return section as large as possible. This would reduce my risk of running the sump dry on an extended weekend. I want to use an auto top off too. But I'd need a safety device to shut it down in the event of a failure. The last thing I need is a flooded house. I think a standard auto topf off float device would work, but I'd want to mount a "wet switch" up higher in the sump. A wet switch shuts off when it gets wet. You'd want to mount it about 2" or 3" higher than the sumps normal level. It's wired into the pump and valves on the top off unit. If it gets wet, it shuts off the pump and valves on the top off unit. I know it can be done--I just don't know how to wire it. I'm not an electrician.

 

[RyanG]

RC you can alway use the loc-line Y connections and get two outputs from a single bulkhead if that helps at all. Ive heard nothing but bad things about SCWDs(squids) if those are what you are considering. My 180 has 6 holes for one inch bulkheads that will have 12 nozzles due to the loc-lines. Plus two one inch bulkheads that will be split for the sump returns for a grand total of 16 aimable outputs. Im going to be using a sequence 3200 for the closed loop and am still decideing whether to use a mag drive return or an external pump.

For the sump that I am going to be building out of a 75 gal I will basically be building a MELEV type sump(just a larger version of the sump that RCPilot posted) except that it will be drilled for external skimmer use. This is my dilemma drill through the back for an external return or use a submerable return.

 

[Rcpilot]

RC you can alway use the loc-line Y connections and get two outputs from a single bulkhead if that helps at all. Ive heard nothing but bad things about SCWDs(squids) if those are what you are considering. My 180 has 6 holes for one inch bulkheads that will have 12 nozzles due to the loc-lines. Plus two one inch bulkheads that will be split for the sump returns for a grand total of 16 aimable outputs. Im going to be using a sequence 3200 for the closed loop and am still decideing whether to use a mag drive return or an external pump.

For the sump that I am going to be building out of a 75 gal I will basically be building a MELEV type sump(just a larger version of the sump that RCPilot posted) except that it will be drilled for external skimmer use. This is my dilemma drill through the back for an external return or use a submerable return.

I'd drill the back of my sump for an external return pump--but I don't have enough room. :frustrat:

My goal was to have ZERO pumps in the water. I can't STAND power heads in the tank. It looks ugly as F*@%#K. I can use the closed loop to get pumps out of the tank and still get good circulation. But I can't find the room to use an external return pump. I would if I had the room. I don't want ANY pumps in the water.

I thought about using a hang on skimmer, but again, no room.

I have heat problems. My 30g tank runs 80F everyday. Stuff must adapt because I'm not killing the corals or fish. :shock: I'd like to get all the pumps out of the water. I run my A/C at 70F in the apartment to keep my tank from running over 80F. I REALLY don't want to fight high temps in the 90g tank too. I'm planning and trying to do all I can to keep pump heat and light heat under control. I plan to use a bunch of fans and vents to cool my lights. I'm in HVAC and I'm also a bit of an amateur computer nerd. I'm planning to use a PC power supply and run computer fans in my hood to blow on the ballasts. It will have intake and exhaust fans to bring in cool air and move it out the top or back. I plan to do some minor "baffling" inside the hood to direct air directly onto the endcaps of the T5 bulbs and directly onto the ballasts. Heat rises, so there will be holes in the top or in the back with baffles to direct hot air out those holes. I will be using fans to SUCK the hot air out those holes in the top and back. Intake and exhaust fans.

 

[fatman]

Blow cold dense air and ad let it displace the heated hot air. Fans are not as efficient at moving light air as the are at moving cold dense air. That is why it takes smaller fans to move air conditioned (cold air) than heating (hot air). Simple thermodynamics. Running double return lines for switching can become expensive as the only method/system that has any longevity is using timers and solenoid valves, and solenoids valves made out of all plastic are expensive, especially if one is used for each return line. Most experienced reefers that use closed loops just recommend one 3/4" to 1" return line/nozzle for every 600 to 800 gph that each pump is rated for. Longer tanks need more return nozzles than taller tanks of the same gallonage. Point opposing nozzles at each other so as to create turbulent flow. Good sump design.

 

[McCrary]

RC- That is the exact design of my 30L sump. I have the return in the middle, the skimmer, heater and water coming in on the left, the fuge is on the right, it has a 6-7" RDSB some live rock, caulerpa and cheato. I used the return to feed the fuge and it flows back into the middle. The reason I didn't use a T from the overflow is that DSB's can get clogged and then they stop working, so having the water pass through the filter sock and then the skimmer means that the water doesn't have much to clog the DSB.

 

[fatman]

It is simple to keep remote deep sand beds from clogging. Run an adequate shallow flow over them so that nothing settles onto their surface, exclude light, plants and critters and preferably only have a few inches of running water above the sand bed. I would use the return compartment for macro algae, just put a piece of light grating over the pump, or better make a grating cage to surround the pump. I would not try to make a refugium out of a deep sand bed. Organics, critters and lights cause to much clumping and greatly increase the chances of a deep sand bed becoming a nutrient sink. In actualality, for the most trouble free performance, a deep sand bed should only be considered and used as a denitrifier. Trying to utilize it as anything else causes the problems which gave them a bad name.

 

[simpleman]

I thought of adding a seperate sump just for running a dsb, do any of you great minds have an opinion?

 

[fatman]

A plastic bucket (like a salt bucket), complete with lid, filled with sugar fine sand to about 6" from the top makes a great remote deep sand bed. Run your water in one side and out the other, no light, no critters and no macro algae. It is just a denitrifier, not a refugium or a sump. That is what deep sand beds do best and this is about the best manner of using them. It is not even necessary to use aragonite sand. Silica sand is fine (wow listen to the shouts of disagreement), just rinse it several times before using it. If you do not like that opinion on silica sand please argue with Randy Holmes-Farley not me. Just use Uniseals instead of bulkheads for your plumbing connections on the buckets. Uniseals are available here:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/829/Uniseals-1-pipe-size-131-pipe-od-1-3-4-holesaw-size

 

[yote]

You know Fatman,I been thinking the same thing about the remote DSBs.I've got 4 empty salt buckets sitting at home just taking up space.
Do you think it would be worth dasy chaining all 4 buckets together and running a small pump to supply the water from the sump?

 

[kyle]

do you guys know a good link for sump designs??

 

[daugherty]

http://www.melevsreef.com/55g/55g_sump.html

 

[Rcpilot]

You know Fatman,I been thinking the same thing about the remote DSBs.I've got 4 empty salt buckets sitting at home just taking up space.
Do you think it would be worth dasy chaining all 4 buckets together and running a small pump to supply the water from the sump?

1 bucket would be plenty. Run the water through just fast enough to keep detritus from settling on the bottom. 12" deep? Put a bit of eggcrate and some plastic screen in the bottom and install a ball valve drain in the bottom. Controlled Plenum Wasting. :mrgreen: I've never tried it, but read an interesting thread on RC last year. I'd like to try it some day.

 

[fatman]

You know Fatman,I been thinking the same thing about the remote DSBs.I've got 4 empty salt buckets sitting at home just taking up space.
Do you think it would be worth dasy chaining all 4 buckets together and running a small pump to supply the water from the sump?

Each bucket will easily handle the continual denitrification of an average of 50 gallons of system tank water when set up only for denitrification. Ie. steady strong, shallow flow, no light,no critters and no macro algae of course, and sand of preferably 1.0 mm or smaller. The buckets stack up nicely and something as simple as a milk crate to set the bottom bucket on works fine. Just run part of your normal overflow water to the top bucket (say 250 gph), which gravity feeds the bottom bucket which gravity feeds the sump. With a steady, strong flow through the buckets, detritus will not settle out and the sand will not become a nutrient sink.
I do not remember the size of your tank, or what your bioload is but four buckets is likely much more than you will need unless you have an extreme fish load or a 200 gallon tank, however if you already have the sand or just use play ground sand the cost would not be bad four setting up four buckets. I have not heard of controlled plenum wasting, and about every study done the for last five years or so has found no benefit from the use of a plenum, but has found increased nutrient sink problems due to the larger particles usually used. With small sand size and a strong flow to prevent/discourage detritus settling what purpose would a plenum or a plenum drain provide? If you run across the thread again plese copy down a link forme, I would be interested in those opinions.