Sump Upgrade Plans

N

NathanMI

Reef Addict
I'm going to upgrade my sump on my 90g reef and here's my idea,

I'm going to have a seperate refugium with a bulkhead to flow into the sump. How big should it be?

I'm going to get an
eshopps 800gph overflow
Haven't decided on a skimmer upgrade yet
And a reeflo blowhole 1100 external pump

Here's my plans:

Front View:
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Pump plumbing:
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I have a few questions:

What size PVC should I use?
What size should the bulkheads be? From tank to tank and from tank to pump.
Do I need anymore baffles? I think I'll just go with the one set for bubbles and that's it. Made from lucite.
Ill add loc-line to the returns
 
Here is chart on size of pvc piping on gravity flow setups

Stand pipe Size Gravity Flow Rating ¾" 330 gph 1" 600 gph 1¼"910 gph 1½"1300 gph 1¾"1800 gph 2"2350 gph 2¼"2960 gph 2½"3650 gph 2¾"4450 gph 3"5280 gph

BUT, you really are limited by the size of the opening in your overflow box.

I would suggest the following:

i) add a filter sock setup to catch bigger detrius. You current set up will trap big pieces in the refugium where it will generate nitrates.

ii) not sure why you want a separate refugium for a 90g - it may be easier to do this off 1 sump with baffles. This will allow you to run the skimmer before the refugium - very popular design.

iii) figure out your head loss - your 1100 gph pump may not cut it.

iv) 3/4" is probably ok for return.

v) don't think you need a powerhead in the refugium (not sure what your plans are)
 
noy said:
Here is chart on size of pvc piping on gravity flow setups

Stand pipe Size Gravity Flow Rating ¾" 330 gph 1" 600 gph 1¼"910 gph 1½"1300 gph 1¾"1800 gph 2"2350 gph 2¼"2960 gph 2½"3650 gph 2¾"4450 gph 3"5280 gph

BUT, you really are limited by the size of the opening in your overflow box.

I would suggest the following:

i) add a filter sock setup to catch bigger detrius. You current set up will trap big pieces in the refugium where it will generate nitrates.

ii) not sure why you want a separate refugium for a 90g - it may be easier to do this off 1 sump with baffles. This will allow you to run the skimmer before the refugium - very popular design.

iii) figure out your head loss - your 1100 gph pump may not cut it.

iv) 3/4" is probably ok for return.

v) don't think you need a powerhead in the refugium (not sure what your plans are)
Click to expand...


I was thinking the same about the overflow opening. The opening on the overflow has a 1" opening.

I want to setup a filter sock but I'm worried about the upkeep. How often do I have to change the sick? How do I wash it?

The reeflo blowhole is supposed to be 1100 gph at like 21' head it should be more than enough. I'm keeping a second overflow on the tank to make sure it doesn't overflow at the highest setting.

I'm doing a seperate refugium because I want more water volume and I'm limited because I can't remove the center support on my stand. Im also planning on adding a 50g frag tank to this setup as well. I want to put in a 30g extra tall if Ivan fit it I have to measure when I get home.

I think the reeflo blowhole has a 1" outlet I think I'll go with that size.

I figured the refugium powerhead would help circulate water.
 
I know people who run sockless sumps (lord knows I contemplated it myself) but in your setup - the drain goes into the refugium first where there will be plants etc.. that will trap the detritus. If you have a system that goes to a skimmer first that would be a different story. \

The filter socks are 100-200 microns and will trap big detritus before they even begin to decompose into nitrates.

I change my socks every 2 days and I have a 3 sock system (3 filter socks per change). Takes about 5 minutes to change. I flip them inside out - keep them in a bucket and when I have 2 changes I wash them in the washing machine - hot water no detergent no bleach. They are ready for use again. Bit of a pain but worth it.

90g is a decent size volume and you will achieve stable parameters with it. If your 90g is already set up right now I can see why you may not want the hassle but if its not you may want to remove the center brace (if its on your stand) and put in a proper size sump and then replace/reinforce the center brace. This may not be an option depending on your tank. I know I had to do this on mine.

If you want to use the standard loc-line return fittings they are 3/4" (or 1/2 inch).

You will need a fine strainer for the refugium drain to the sump - otherwise plants will go into the sump and clog your skimmer pump/return pump.

If your drain is going into your refugium w/o a filter sock or baffle - you won't need to worry about circulation.

Also, don't think you necessarily need a check valve on a return - you just need to make sure there isn't head loss from the check valve. A good siphon break on the return fittings will work too (my setup).

I looked the reeflo website - for the 2700 at 24' - the loss goes from 2700 to 795 gph. At least that's how I read the chart they have. I didn't see anything for the 1100. Cool looking pump though nice to have 3 speed settings.

if you run a powerhead in your refugium or sump for circulation - you can use it to run a carbon reactor and/or a glo reactor down the line.
 
Im running the bh 850 and about 16ft of head, im running 660gph(2nd speed) and that is running all of that. They are good pumps if installed correctly. The originials had issues with their sleeve bearings, but have since been fixed and work great. Will not find a better pump imho.
 
First of all thank you for the chart! I was looking for it!

Well the plans have changed a little since yesterday. I figured out that my plan wasn't gonna pan out just right. There's not enough room under my stand.

Solution: we're going to add a metal stand next to my current wood one. On the bottom will be a 50g sump and on the top will be a 30 gallon extra long frag tank. (48"X12"x12")

Ill have to draw up the new plans and put in gate valves to control flow to the seperate tanks. I have to figure eout my head pressure' do I add horizontal lines to that? I think my plan is to put the pmp in the middle of the two tanks so the sump will run right to left to reduce head loss if that's the case. I would like to have to returns to my 90 DT and one the the frag but it may caus tooth head loss.

Should I still put the refugium before the skimmer chamber?
Should I use glass baffles? I usually use lucite. How much does it usually run to have the glass cut?
 
if you are going to put everything in to one sump it go first chamber is water in from tank and skimmer bubble trap then your refugium a baffle and return chamber ever 10 foot of horizontal line counts for 1' vertical and every 90 counts as 1' vertical
 
Does the T fittingg hurt it? I want to have a total of three returns if It doesn't cause too much head pressure' I want less flow in my DT because I plan on doing softies and seahorse only for a while.
 
Last edited:
the same as a 90 but i think you will be fine dont use check valves drill holes just under the water in the dt so it sill suck air rater then suck water out of the dt if the power goes out
 
Well with three returns its a whopping 22.5 head pressure'

With two returns its 16.5'

Do I measure very 90 into the tank also, Including the ones in the water?
I measure each vertical line right? I added 1 feet for each to the 90gallon and 1 foot to the 30g.
Do I count the 90s from the tank to the pump I'm running it:
Out of sump -> 90 elbow -> into pump-> 90 elbow up 1' -> then a T to the rest = 4'
Then ill have 3' for each turn up to the tanks = 3'
Then 3 sets of 3 90 elbows into the tank = 9'

So I'm gonna have to do one return for each tank and buy a blowhole 2700 if I can find one!

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Last edited:
you can use this as an approx. head loss calculator

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

you may want to think just 1 return for the 90 and using another pump for the frag tank. Frag tanks are fairly simple setups often with a bottom drilled pipe with no overflow for a return and a simple pump (like a mag) for return - you don't even really need a 10x turnover. With no rockwork - its fairly easy to get god and precise circulation.

If you are running a SPS frag tank - you may not even want to plumb it to your main display since you may want to set up a 0 nutrient system with strong lighting to encourage growth.
 

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