sumps vs. filters?

D

dejazurezra

Reefing newb
hey I'm gwendolyn, I'm new to this site and marine fish keeping
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...
and i've been harboring a question in the part of my head that holds uncomfortable confusion. lol

I bought this system because the guy told me it works and he owns it. this one ---> Penn-Plax Cascade Canister Filter

yet, everywhere I research, websites and books, it says that sumps are essencial for aquariums and I see all these technical tubes going in and out and overflow machines and blah blah things going over my head when I spent some money on this.

so my question is...is this filter different than a sump? does it act as a sump? because it sits underneath my 55gallon tank pumping water in and out of tubes which kind of looks like a sump i would think? or is this just a downgrade of a sump, and sumps are better...or maybe this filter is better? haha ive no idea. i'm still learning.

This is more of a jumbled up concern other than a specific question, but my tank is young and is almost on the verge of cycling so i think it would be pretty important to know haha. thank you sooooo much if you can help me!!
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The general concensus is that canisters are bad on a reef tank.

Most of the reasons given are that it leads to nitrate build up.

I have a Magnum canioster and have been told to only run it occasionally --like with some carbon-- to polish and clarify my water.

I currently am running a fairly new tank and I am running the canister. It's packed to the top with premium quality activated carbon. I plan to run it for a few more weeks and then it's getting disconnected and going under the cabinet to collect dust.

If you want to run a reef tank, then most people would probably suggest a good refugium. Given that you have a 55g tank, I'll bet you will be better off running an overflow unit with a refugium/sump under the tank.

I am running a CPR refugium that hangs on the back of the tank. My tank is 30g. It's okay, but I soon discovered that my refugium lights bleed over into the tank. I wanted to run a reverse light cycle. Meaning that when my tank lights are ON during the day -- then my refugium lights would be OFF. And when my tank lights go OFF -- then my refugium lights would turn ON. But, I can't do that because even when the tank lights are OFF, my refugium casts enough light inside the tank to keep it from being completely dark. So, I am having to run both lighting systems ON and OFF together so that my tank does geta "shutdown" of darkness every night.

I think you'll probably be better off running a refugium under your tank.
Something like this:
Reef Aquarium Filtration: Supplementary filtration for reef aquariums

Some hobbyists build their own refugium out of a 20g or 30g tank.

The overflow things are rather simple. Don't be scared of them. Go to a local fish store (LFS) and look at them. Look at their refugiums and wet/dry filters. Many hobbyists have taken a stabdard wet/dry filter and removed the bio balls or bio media. Then they silicone a couple baffles in turn it into a refugium.

I struggled with the concept of the overflow units too. How does it overflow, but NOT fill the sump up with water faster than the pump can return the water to the tank? Isn't this a flood waiting to happen? Is it complicated?

It's not complicated. The pump in the refugium/sump is going to pump the water back in at a given rate. The overflow is only going to overflow the water that is available to it. If it overflows too fast, then the tank water level will drop to the point where the overflow stops working. As soon as the pump catches up--the overflow starts to dump water out again. This doesn't happen, but it's a safety feature built into most of these overflows. It can only drop the level of the tank so far. Then the water level is too low and it can't overflow anymore.

With a 55g tank, you want between 8 and 10 times of turnover per hour. So, you'll want about 400--500 gallons per hour of water circulating.

So, you need a 500GPH pump?

No.

There is head pressure. That pump is 4' below the tank and the weight of the water colum that the pump must force it back up into the tank has a bearing on the size of the pump. Most pumps will give a GPH rating for any given head. For example:
A 700GPH pump will actually pump 700GPH horizontally.
But, ask it to pump that water straight up 1 foot and your GPH drops to 650GPH.
Ask it to pump that water up 3 feet and you now only have 450GPH.

Figure out how far it has to pump from the sump back up to the tank. Let's say it's 4 feet. Go find a pump that will do 500GPH with 4 feet of head.

I wrestled with this for a couple months before I finally spent some money and bought a filter. There are LOTS of different ways to do it. Most of them will work. I would NOT use that canister as your primary means of filtration on a reef tank.

These people have the overflow that is really good:
CPR AQUATIC, INC - CS Overflows

Here is the product page:
CPR AQUATIC, INC: Products

Those are expensive. There are good substitutes on ebay. Do a search on ebay for refugium or overflow or wet/dry. Lots of products for reasonable prices and some not-so-reasonable.
 
The canister filter that you mention is not a sump.A sump is usually a separate tank that houses other filtration and equipment.Most people who have sump usually have a refugium incorporated.Its a good place to hide equipment like heaters and protein skimmers too.You don't need a sump/fuge to have a successful reef but I highly recommend one.BTW,if you're gonna use the canister,make sure you clean it often.They can become a nitrate trap if it is allowed to become a biological filter.

Good luck and welcome!
 
I agree with what Freak said. Sumps are good, but not necessary. Canister filters are USUALLY bad. If you keep your tank lightly stocked (not too many fish) you will be fine without a sump.
 
Well,First off.Let me welcome you to the reef and the hobby.I think you'll enjoy both.
2nd,Im going to agree with RC,Reef,and Biff.
A canister is a totally different critter than a sump as a canister can only filter your water.A sump is used to house the filter,skimmer and other equipment to you dont really want to see in your display tank.
You can have an awesome tank using either approach.But I also reccommend running the sump over a canister.
 
I ran that same filter on my 55 because I didnt have room for a sump underneith my stand. I also used a protien skimmer though. The one thing thats nice about the cascade is its just foam sponge filtration so it catches all the particals in your water and doesnt have any other mech/bio filtration. Sometimes I ran carbon in it. I never had a nitrate problem but I did clean It every sunday.
 
Welcome to the site! :^: You will find tons of information here and lots of social stuff if you look for it. Sumps are great, but I think refugiums are more trouble than they are worth. It seems as if, back in the day, refugs were the new hip thing that was supposed to keep tanks super-healthy and make it so you don't have to even do water changes. They do help take out nitrates, but no NOTHING for phosphates, which build up will kill your corals. They are a nifty addition, kinda like KC lights on a truck (sorry Yote), but not essential. Water changes are essential and keep nitrates down. I don't have one on my 125 and my tank is a happy tank. just my though, seems like people like them here.

-Dr Marco :sfish:
 
People like refugium everywhere Doc.I guilty,I'm jumping on the fuge bandwagon.Macroalgae uses up phosphate as well as nitrate,me thinks.
 
HEY NOW If you ever come out of the woods on a good dark night,,when its pouring down rain,you'll apprecate those KCs,lol
 
Yote, you crack me up. reeffreak, I suppose I am trying to be different by not having one. They just seem more trouble than they are worth, but I am glad you are happy with your fuge.

-Dr Marco :sfish:
 
reeffreak,

I wil forgive you for jumping on the band wagon of the fuge if you just put an Emperor or a Majestic Angel in your 210!!!

-Dr Marco :sfish:
 

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