syphon advice for live sand bed

2008pollyanna

Reefing newb
Hi, what have you all found to be a good syphon for water changes in a deep live sand bed. My live sand bed is about 3-4 inches deep and I was given a very small syphon with like airline hosing to use. It takes me forever...I am still trying to learn how to do it, without plugging it up all the time. What have you all found that you like for cleaning your live sand bed. And how much are you taking out? How often. I have a 46 gallon bowfront. I have taken about about 20% out thru siphoning my sand bed, and it has been taking me like an hour and ahalf to get it down, because the siphon is small. Do I need a larger syphon? Also, I know I dont want to lose my good bacteria. So should I clean my live sand like once a week and take like 5 gallons out perhaps from my 46 gallon tank? And do you pull the pumps off and clean them each week thouraghly? Should I be cleaning my sponges from my charcoal filters in salt water or fresh water? How often do you all clean your sump and how thorough. Do you ever clean your bio balls? I have heard yes and now no. And some of you refer to filter floss, what is it? Is it beneficial? I have a skimmer on my sump underneath as well.
 
when the deep sand bed gets that brown orangey vein of debris running thru it, my friend told me thats what we need to get out. But, we shouldnt have to go any deeper? Here she told me to go all the way to the bottom. But then she has a gravel bed and mine is live sand.
 
i've never cleaned my sand bed in the year it's been set up. If you suck up the particles in the DSB your also sucking up and disturbing the good bacteria that is the whole purpose of a DSB. Is what you can do so that you dont have to look at that orange line through the glass just under the sand surface, you could slope the sand upwards away from the glass so that you cant see under the sand through the glass.
 
So when you are all doing water changes each week...your just doing that only like changing the water and not syphoning the live sand? Boy, I really need help. I thought I had to clean the live sand very well each week also.
When I see that sediment thats brown, gray, and orange like in the LS...do I need to get that out as asap? The fellow I bought this from also has like small charcoal stuff in the live sand as well. So that may be breaking down and coloring the sediment as well.
How do you all do a water change?
 
that orange brown sediment under the sand surface may be the good bacteria that you want, i would just let it go, it wont go anywhere other than under the sand. when you do a water change you could syphon the LR to kinda help keep that clean but you dont need to go crazy with it. the biggest purpose of a water change is to remove nitrates and phosphates which lead to algea. How long has your tank been set up?
 
the only time i siphoned off my DSB is when i had the cyano algae in the first few months after cycling ... i only took out the very top layer of sand and only in the bad areas ... i used a 5/8" tube 6' long and siphoned into a bucket ... it never plugged up and siphoned off fast so you have to be careful not to leave it in one place to long ... just hold it close enough to the sand for it to start sucking it up ... never stick it into the sand otherwise it will suck up way more sand than you want
 
that orange brown sediment under the sand surface may be the good bacteria that you want, i would just let it go, it wont go anywhere other than under the sand. when you do a water change you could syphon the LR to kinda help keep that clean but you dont need to go crazy with it. the biggest purpose of a water change is to remove nitrates and phosphates which lead to algea. How long has your tank been set up?
I take all my LR pieces and shake em around to float all loose debris off of them then do a water change when there is the floaties from the rock in the water but I do have pretty sloppy eaters in there, alot like my kids lol. or you could use a turkey baster to blast the stuff off the LR if you have that stuff. Make sure the replacement water is the same temp as the water you remove my critters dont like it when I cool down their home. And make sure the water is fully mixed so there is not a bunch of salt in the bottom of the bucket.
 
You should not need to disturb your deep sand bed. If it is made up of large particles you siphon above the bed. Typically deep sand beds are of a fine sand that will keep all detritus on the surface . For the detritus to get below the surface critters living in the sand need to pull it below the surface. There should be enough circulation in a reef tank that you seldom see any aprticles of food or other detritus laying on top of the sand, only in crevaces provided by rock and larger substrates should cleaning be necessary. You can use any size hose you want to siphon with as long as you hold it far enough away from the sand that it does not pick it up. You should never have to remove and clean any part of a deep sand bed made with fine sand. I do not recommend a deep sand bed made of any substrate larger than 1 mm, and 0.5 mm and finer is better.
 
polly,

If you are worried about the sandbed, might I suggest the following:
1.) Sand sifting starfish.
2.) Sand sifting goby.

These (2) guys will help keep the top layers of the sandbed clean and free of debris. They do a good job. Make sure your liverock is secure, as a sand sifting goby will scoop up all the sand and move your entire sandbed around. Sometimes, loose rockwork will shift, possibly trapping livestock.

Good luck.
 
Sand sifting Gobies will eat the other critters you want to keep a population of in your sand bed. The small critters that live within a healthy mature sand bed will do a more than adequate job of keep yor sand bed functioning properly. A innocultion with some GARF grunge will give you a good start on all the sand sifting critters you need if you did not start off with a good live sand innoculant, it will include different worms, little brittle stars and nassirus snails that live normally in deep sand beds. A sand sifting gobie can actually be a detriment to a functioning deep sand bed.
 
There are different maintenance routines for gravel and for sand. Your friend is siphoning and mixing up their substrate because they have gravel. Gravel is an awful substrate to use, and the large particles trap food and detritus and the gravel becomes a nitrate factory. That's why it's a good idea to clean the gravel by hand.

Sand is different. The particles are small enough that it doesn't trap nearly as much crap as gravel or crushed coral. Therefore, you do not need to, and should not disturb a sand bed. Disturbing a sand bed will kill off the (good) anaerobic bacteria that are living at the bottom. You can keep the upper layers of the sand bed clean by adding a dozen or so nassarius snails. Like Fatman, I too would definitely avoid sand sifting stars.

In short, I'd definitely stop trying to clean your sand bed. You got some bad advice from someone who has a tank with gravel, not sand and therefore needs a different maintenance routine for their tank.
 
What is Garf Grunge and where do I find it?
Ok, now were talking...I dont want to siphon my deep bed of Live sand. So, when I do tank changes for water...how do you all do that. Do you even use a syphoning hose? Or do you just dip out 10-20% of the water per week and replace with same temp, salinaty, and ph water? Is it that simple?
How often do you clean your sump? How should I be doing that?
I inherited a year old well established tank, but am learning as I go. My idea and the actual ways of doing things are based on another gals gravel based salt water reef. We are learning as we go.
 
thats pretty much it, but it would also be a good habit to take a turkey baster and gently blow off your live rock the take your syphoning hose (you could get a larger one if it takes forever to take the water out) and syphon out the desired amount of water taking up as much of the debris from the rocks that you can. For adding the new saltwater you want it to be the same salinity and temperature as your tanks water. it's a good idea the day before your water change to get the saltwater ready so that the salt is all mixed in. to make that easier you could go get a cheap little heater and powerhead add the salt while mixing it tell you are close to the correct salinity, put your heater and powerhead in your bucket or whatever your using to hold the water and plug em in. by the time you do your water change the next day your salt will be mixed in good and it will be close enough to the right temp.
 
When doing my water changes,I just use my siphon to clean off the rock.I dont the sand.Been doing it that for over a year now.
 
Sand sifting Gobies will eat the other critters you want to keep a population of in your sand bed. The small critters that live within a healthy mature sand bed will do a more than adequate job of keep yor sand bed functioning properly. A innocultion with some GARF grunge will give you a good start on all the sand sifting critters you need if you did not start off with a good live sand innoculant, it will include different worms, little brittle stars and nassirus snails that live normally in deep sand beds. A sand sifting gobie can actually be a detriment to a functioning deep sand bed.


Well said!(See we don't always disagree)
Also goes for sand sifting seastars as well.
 
Instead of using a siphon, I find that using a powerhead or small pump hooked up to some vinyl tubing works much better for doing water changes. I put the pump in my tank, the other end of the vinyl tubing in my sink, and plug the pump in. It moves water from the tank to the sink, then when it's time to put in new water, I move the pump into the new water jug and the vinyl tubing into the tank, and it moves the water over into the tank. Much easier than using one of those siphon thingies.

It really is as simple as removing 10 to 20% of the water (somehow) and replacing it with new water at the correct salinity, temperature and pH.
 
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