Tank/Sump/Flow Design...

Discussion in 'New to Reefing' started by Kliman01, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. Kliman01

    Kliman01

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    Hey, everybody

    I've been researching and giving a lot of thought to the design of the water system for the tank I'm planning, and since I'm totally new to marine setups, I'd like to get people's opinion (as well as making sure my understanding of best practice and how this stuff actually works is correct).

    [​IMG]

    I am planning a 90Gal display tank with 2 of the "Glassholes.com" 700gph overflow units (or something similar) piped together and draining into a 30gal (approx) sump in the stand. Most of the water will end up in the section where I will have a protein skimmer (not sure of the model yet, so I don't know if the height of my bubble trap is accurate, but that is subject to change still), with a valve allowing an adjustable amount of water flow into a 10gal (approx) refugium. The refugium will drain into the center "return" area through a set of slots, which I guess will help keep the snails and such where they belong.

    I plan to run a pair of pumps (for redundancy) back into a common rail return line into the tank. Check valves in that system will prevent the pumps from fighting each other, as well as keep the water flowing as it should in the event of a pump failure. Another set will help prevent siphon back into the sump should both pumps fail. I know the dual pumps is really overkill, but it will make me sleep better at night :). There is also a return line (with a valve for adjustability) feeding back into the skimmer area in case I want to turn the flow into the display tank down a bit (to reduce strain on the pumps).

    The wider part of the bubble trap is approx. 3", so I can sneak a chunk of foam media in there once in awhile should water clarity be an issue. Most of the time it will be open.

    I will run a pair of heaters (again, redundancy) in the return area as well.

    I'm totally new to the whole marine thing, but I have a fair bit of experience with FW tanks.

    Please let me know if I'm on the right track, and if not...please offer suggestions (with the reasons explained)

    Thanks much!
     
    Kliman01, Jul 25, 2010
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  2. Kliman01

    parrotchute DUSTOFF MEDEVAC

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    Looks pretty good! When I set up my new tank, I'm also going to have 2 returns, because I'm pretty paranoid.

    What I use for temp redundancy is 2 heaters that individually have enough power to heat the tank. I've got them hooked up to a controller - one comes on at 78 degrees, the other at 77. That way, if the heater fails to the hot side, the controller has them both off. If one fails and stops working, the temp will drop enough for the 2nd to come on.
     
    parrotchute, Jul 25, 2010
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  3. Kliman01

    parrotchute DUSTOFF MEDEVAC

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    Any thoughts on doing an algae scrubber set up there?
     
    parrotchute, Jul 25, 2010
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  4. Kliman01

    BL1 ............. Moderator

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    You're not going to want your overflow dumping right into your refug area. The refug needs lower flow. You should have both overflows emptying into the skimmer section then, swap the refug and return sections.
     
    BL1, Jul 25, 2010
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  5. Kliman01

    yote Ceritfied Mantis Hunter Moderator

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    I dont see anything wrong your design.Should work like a charm.
    But just what is the SLEEP that you mention? I thought that reefers swore oath NOT to sleep.:mrgreen:

    I also run 2 heaters on a controller.Mainly because I used 2 smaller heater BEFORE I went with the controller.But I'm thinking I'll just go back to one before winter.
     
    yote, Jul 25, 2010
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  6. Kliman01

    yote Ceritfied Mantis Hunter Moderator

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    Didnt even see that.
    But another option would be to tee off that drain with a ball valve to control the flow going into the fuge.
     
    yote, Jul 25, 2010
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  7. Kliman01

    Kliman01

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    Do you guys not see that there's a valve there to control flow into the refugium? Haha
     
    Kliman01, Jul 25, 2010
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  8. Kliman01

    BL1 ............. Moderator

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    Nope, I definitely missed that
     
    BL1, Jul 25, 2010
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  9. Kliman01

    reeffreak

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    I see problems.

    Why are the two drains connected with a horizontal pipe?You are messing up the gravity.That design at the least will cause noise so I don't think its needed.Two return pumps is not needed either.Don't you think if one pump stops working that the other pump will push some water back through the pump that is not working.

    Everything else looks okay.
     
    reeffreak, Jul 25, 2010
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  10. Kliman01

    parrotchute DUSTOFF MEDEVAC

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    I was just assuming the horizontal pipe is only horizontal for the purposes of the picture.

    Would 2 pumps work if they were independently piped?
     
    parrotchute, Jul 25, 2010
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  11. Kliman01

    Kliman01

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    The horizontal pipe is there to connect the two overflows into a "header"...that way if something gets plugged, water is still going to flow to both places. I suppose I could plumb them both seperately, but that seems like an awful lot of extra plumbing...What part of the header design would cause noise?

    There are check valves on the outlet of each pump to prevent backflow in the case of a pump failure...
     
    Kliman01, Jul 25, 2010
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  12. Kliman01

    reeffreak

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    I gotcha on the pump check valve but still why use two pumps?

    I'm not sure how to explain the horizontal pipe.Will the pipe be large enough to compensate for both overflows if one clogs below the horizontal pipe.This whole design is just weird to me.Are you worried about something?Everything seems to be double-pumps,overflow,drains when only one of everything is needed.Why not one larger overflow split to drain to the skimmer and fuge like an upside V.I'm not saying your idea won't work but is seems like you are paranoid of something going wrong.
     
    reeffreak, Jul 25, 2010
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  13. Kliman01

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    I'm not sure about the two return pumps either. You know if the return pump fails, it's not going to hurt anything? You will still need powerheads in the tank for water movement. If the return pump fails, you just have to buy a new one. Nothing bad is going to happen to your tank in the meantime.
     
    Bifferwine, Jul 25, 2010
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  14. Kliman01

    Kliman01

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    Well, I come from an IT background, and redundancy is just how my brain works. I know that if something breaks down in a "single" system I would still have an opportunity to fix it, but I like the fact that with redundancy built in the tank wouldn't be in any kind of jeapardy while I was sourcing parts.

    I suppose the feeling of a "need" to keep the water flowing is from my fresh water experience. Makes sense that a marine tank wouldn't be as sensitive.

    Regardless of the pumps, I definitely want two overflow boxes. This tank is going to be in my home office (in a part of the house that I'm not always in). The last thing I need is to find a tank that's overflowed completely, drained the sump, and burned out the pump. The redundancy just seems like cheap insurance to me.

    I was thinking something like 1.5 or 2" pipe, but I really have no idea what the flow rates of these pipes are. I still have to research that. Anyway, the plan is for the overflow pipes to be large enough to accomodate the entire flow from both overflows.
     
    Kliman01, Jul 25, 2010
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  15. Kliman01

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    That's the thing, the tank is not going to be in jeopardy if the return pump fails.
     
    Bifferwine, Jul 25, 2010
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  16. Kliman01

    PRC Stop Quoting Me!

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    Me too.:D Which really helps me explain what reefreak is trying to explain in regard to the horizontal overflow pipe. I can do it in one word...

    Bottleneck.

    But I'll elaborate. That horizontal pipe joining the overflows together is going to cause a bottleneck in your system. You've got information flowing down those vertical pipes. When they join together some info from the left is going to run into the info on the right, it's going to meet in the middle and push against each other. This is going to cause some turbulence (the noise reefreak was describing). If the pipes aren't attached to a structure tightly I can see them making all kinds of rattling sounds.

    IMO run 2 separate overflows.

    You wouldn't need any extra pipe at all...remove the part going into the refugium, and put an elbow on the right side pump instead of a tee, jsut have it drop down into the skimmer as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2010
    PRC, Jul 25, 2010
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    reeffreak likes this.
  17. Kliman01

    reeffreak

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    You did good PRC.
     
    reeffreak, Jul 25, 2010
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  18. Kliman01

    brianalone

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    Looks great but why 4 check valves, aren't two enough?
     
    brianalone, Jul 19, 2017
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