the 210 gallon in wall project

[project5k]

so the wife and i have been strongly discussing some options for doing some remodeling in the house while i have all this time off.. hehehe, anyway, and one of the things that we have been discussing is a better place for the fish tanks.. so, what we have decided, is that we will cut through a wall, into a "spare bedroom" that will become the fish room/reloading room/ my man cave.

Now, after measuring that wall, figuring that i think its non load bearing, and so forth, i feel comfortable engeniering-wise to say that a 240 tall will fit in the hole i'm willing to put in the wall. thats 6 feet long, 24 inches front to back and 31 inches tall...

My plan would be to then use the 75 that i have now as the sump for the 240...

looking at glass cages, it looks like a 240 tall is gonna run me somewhere in the neighborhood of $730, and i absolutely will have it drilled... i'm not playing with overflow boxes and syphon tubes any more, now that i'll have the option.. hehehe

so, are there any things that i should be on the look out for if i do this? I mean what are some of the things that are different with a larger tank? more lighting, bigger skimmer, more power heads, and bigger pump for the sump/return.. anything else?

also, with it being open into that room, it would seem to me that one would be able to see directly through the tank into that room, well i could paint the back, but then i cant see in from inside that room, so, now what? a curtain? i dont think so...

anyone got good total system pictures of an inwall setup? i've googled and i can get a couple of either the front or parts of it, but not the entire thing all the way around.. like does the finish moulding on the wall actually cover up part of the tank edges? what does the plumbing look like on the back side? things like that..

one thing that concernes us when talking about this, is that we tossed around the idea of a 180 tall, but that was only 18 deep front to back, and the 240 is 24, i'm wondering, where this will be an in wall setup, will the extra depth make it less enjoyable to look into, cause as it is now, i can get all the way around my tank to look for this or that, but with an in-wall, you will only be able to see the front, if you wanna see anything more than that, you'd have to go into the room.... thoughts?

also, while we're talking about the logistics of a bigger tank... 240 gallons, so i would need to flow something like 2400 gallons per hour through the sump, and then i'd also want something like 2400-4800gph of circ in the tank right? where and how many holes to drill in the tank? and of what sizes? what pump(s) do yall reccomend for somethng that size? how do you set up the returns, as it is now, with my 75 i just have thoes black plastic nozels that hang over the back rim of the tank, now if my "drains" are gonna be drilled into the tank, do i still use the over the rim returns, or should i drill holes and plumb thoes in somehow?

 

[dcantucson]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Wow p5k you have gone from a non-supportive wife to one that will let you cut out a wall and put in a 240. Congratulations!

Take out the wall completely and put a walk around Zero Edge to divide the room.

Look at Quiet One pumps for your pumps. You can move as much as 3700 gph.

 

[project5k]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

yea, its a long story.. and 240 might be outta the budjet, maybe i would be better off with somethng more like a 180 but go with a saphire glass front, or something like that, i mean money is a limiting factor but i have options as of right now...

removing the wall completely wont work cause i wanna keep that space blocked off for all the "behind the scenes" stuff for the tank, not to mention that the room that this is gonna be backing into is going to be where i have all me ammo reloading stuff, the gun safe, things like that...

quiet one pumps, ok, its on my list of things to check out..

so, what about thoes returns, and to paint or not to paint, and all the rest of my ??? oh, and i guess, just as a point of reference, IF i were to order my tank from glass cages, and i'm not saying i am, its just what i'm looking at on the net at the moment, i guess i would want to go ahead and get the "reef ready" wouldnt i?

and if not either my local LFS or glass cages, then where do yall suggest i look at to get this tank?

 

[project5k]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

ok, one of my LFS's is closed to day, but the other one i called suggested an aqueon 210 predrilled, reef ready, overflows and all for $875 and that measures out at 72 long, 24 f-b and 29 tall... thats about in the right neighborhood...

 

[Rcpilot]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

If you are on a non-load bearing wall that is good.

But if thats on a 2nd floor - you need more bracing underneath it.

I would not expose the back of the tank to the spare room - man cave.

Put a floating wall up.

 

[project5k]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

yea best i can tell its a non load bearing wall, cause the wall is running the same direction as the ceeling joists...

single floor dwelling, on a concrete slab, so bracing isnt an issue for me...

hmm floating wall.. interesing, now are you talking strictly a partition that isnt really holding up anything and thus you call it "floating" or are you suggesting something that moves? Thats why i was considering full length heavy black curtains, they can be moved to be worked around, can be washed easily if they get dirty, help with sound deadening, and arent permenant fixtures that i would have to walk around or bump into...

oh, and RC just for a laugh, your drawing is almost exactly the layout of the room, the only thing i'd change is that the door to the room is farther from the tank on that same west wall(as drawn)

ok, looking at return pumps, looks like the model 9000 quiet one should do about what i need it flow wise... oh, and 4 more k2's

the other great thing about all this is that i can move my RO/Di filter and mixing tanks and everything into that room and it wont all be out in the living room any more...

now i just gota figure out some kind of a drain situation so i dont have to haul the old water change water out of the house, and i'm thinking that its probably not a good idea to put that much salt down into the septic tank.... hmmm

 

[dcantucson]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

If it were my Man Cave I would definitely want to be able to sit and watch MY TANK.
Which means you will have to come up with some sort of curtain, shade, sliding wall, etc. to have in place when you want some Man Cave privacy.

 

[Rcpilot]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

yea best i can tell its a non load bearing wall, cause the wall is running the same direction as the ceeling joists...

single floor dwelling, on a concrete slab, so bracing isnt an issue for me...

hmm floating wall.. interesing, now are you talking strictly a partition that isnt really holding up anything and thus you call it "floating" or are you suggesting something that moves? Thats why i was considering full length heavy black curtains, they can be moved to be worked around, can be washed easily if they get dirty, help with sound deadening, and arent permenant fixtures that i would have to walk around or bump into...

oh, and RC just for a laugh, your drawing is almost exactly the layout of the room, the only thing i'd change is that the door to the room is farther from the tank on that same west wall(as drawn)

ok, looking at return pumps, looks like the model 9000 quiet one should do about what i need it flow wise... oh, and 4 more k2's

the other great thing about all this is that i can move my RO/Di filter and mixing tanks and everything into that room and it wont all be out in the living room any more...

now i just gota figure out some kind of a drain situation so i dont have to haul the old water change water out of the house, and i'm thinking that its probably not a good idea to put that much salt down into the septic tank.... hmmm

It's just a wall - sorta like a fixed curtain.

What does this do? It allows you to look all the way through the tank - but from the main part of the house you will just see a plain old wall behind it. Can't see into the man cave.

You could even give up some real estate in the cave and divide the room in half with a full length wall and a door. Then you have a place to slop around and muck in the tank - but don't have to listen to it when your reloading or video gaming in the cave.

 

[project5k]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

yea, thats kinda what i was thinking, ofcourse, you'd be looking at the back of the tank, and the back of the rocks, so i dont know how much you'll be able to see...

and i'm starting to lean towards the curtains, just cause i can move then anytime i want, if i were to build a wall, then thats kinda perm and in the way, and dosent offer any flexability in the room.. i mean that room is only like 10x10 plus the closets where the tank will be...

ok, next question, back wall overflows, or corners? see below pics....

 

[Rcpilot]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

ohhhhhhhhh - David has a good point.

I'd kinda want to be able to see the tank from the cave.

Maybe a black curtain? Then you can pull it across the back of the tank for guests. They just see your pretty tank and a black background. Can't see into the cave.

 

[Rcpilot]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

ok, next question, back wall overflows, or corners? see below pics....

Corners

You can't put rocks in the corner anyway. Might as well utilize the corner for something useful and save real estate in the rest of the tank for rocks.

 

[bjohanson1234]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

If you build the rock into an island in the middle of the tank, the fish would swim around and you would have a better view from both sides. I like the curtain idea. Dont want the Mrs looking it, close it. Want to look at the fish, open it:mrgreen:

 

[winyfrog]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

I can take some picture of my built ins for you.

The question that I would ask is do you want to view it from your man cave? If so you can just arrange the rocks in the center and put the overflows on the ends instead on the back.

If you don't necessarily want to veiw it from your room, you can just use traditional tape on back ground (in black of course) that way if you need to see in you can peel it off and look behind your rocks. This is how mine is. I'm pretty happy with doing it this way.

 

[dcantucson]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Okay something to consider since you have no limitations to speak of. How about a wider (from front to back, what you will see through) tank. And putting the overflows on the ends. With a wider tank you could have both sides set up for viewing with the LR in the middle like an island. Kinda like a walk around but in a wall instead.

 

[winyfrog]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Thats what I was thinking as well. wider is much better then deeper anyway.

 

[project5k]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

ok, so, if i do the rocks like i have them in my 75 now then the fish can go all the way around, but i really think that i wanna rock up the back wall, and keep the fish and corals and everything "out front"

looking at it from the back side is really not that important, really all i want to see from the back for is if i'm looking for a "missing" fish or soemtihng like that.. as it is now, the back wall of my 75 is grown over with corraline, so you really cant see through it anyway.. yea, i'm thinking that big black curtain is the way to go... then i have the choice, and what i'll do is make sure that the curtain blocks all the light from that room when its closed..

winy, that would be super awesome, i can generally figure things out pretty well from good pictures, thanks!

as for the "deeper" tanks, well, thats something that the wife and i talked about and we were afraid of "wasting" tank if it was too far front to rear, cause i was afraid you wouldnt be able to see as much.. but if i pile all the rocks up around the back and sides, and then make an open sandy area in the middle, kinda like a lagoon, that would give some open space for things to swim, and would also give me places to put things like mushrooms and stuff on the sand and up the rocks on the back.. hmmm

so, just for one last clarification, when yall say deeper, you mean more distance front to back, not taller, and thus the water is actually "deeper" right?

thing is that i can do a 210 that is 6 feet long, 24 front to back, and 29 tall, or i could do a 180 that is also 6 feet long, 24 front to back, but is 24 tall... or i could do a 150 thats the same 6 feet long, but is 18 front to back and 29 tall... so, same front glass area as the 210 just not as deep front to back... hmmm

any way i look at it, sounds like i need between 75 and 100 lbs more rock... time to get out the cement mixer! i'll have to make that like now to have it cured out in time for all this to happen, cause the way we've been talking, i might start some of the demolition this weekend...

 

[bjohanson1234]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Out of those, I would probably do the 180. Saves a bit of money, can still use t5's over it since they tend not to penetrate the water as much as the MH's and they also are cheaper. Also, with the 24 inch front to back tank, you can do what Ive always wanted to do. Use several 24" t5 fixtures and turn them on from left to right kind of to simulate a sun rise/set type thing. Not really sure if it would look good or if it would work right but couldnt hurt to try.

Brian

 

[winyfrog]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Wider = width (front to back)
Deeper = depth (top to bottom)
longer = length.

I love the wider tanks, you can actually stack rock better (so its not a straight wall) which is hard to place corals. The wider tank will also give you the illusion that the tank is bigger.

 

[Navarchus]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Project5k, this is exciting news! Sweet!

I have an 120g in-wall setup, and I was just thinking of expanding it--thinking of getting a 240 too. How cool! (I was probably surfing glass cages at the same time as you).

I completely agree with DC and Wini re getting a wider tank. If you are bumping into a 10x10 room you could easily fit a 72Lx30Wx25H and it would be spectacular to get that depth of vision. In my opinion anything higher than 24 is a pain in the butt because one's arm is not able to reach the bottom when they are that high, and it is hard for light to penetrate that deep.

So, that 240 I just mentioned is $830. You need it reef-ready ($150), plus you may want to get starphire glass on the front panel ($138). Also, the acrylic covers for the overflows are important to hide the plumbing ($70) and you will probably want the bulkheads for the overflows ($60). Shipping to a pick up destination is $150. Total = $1398.

If you decide to go with the higher tank as opposed to a deeper tank you will need to have some pretty strong lighting to make it to the bottom through 31’’ of water.

About in-wall set-ups. I could see into the unfinished part of the basement when I first set it up. I put some black plastic backing paper on the back and now it looks fine (the side panels simply reflect the fish tank and I cannot see through them due to the natural miracle or refractive indexing.

Your tank will have a black border. I suggest that you cover up that part of the tank with a molding. I have seen nice setups where the moldings match the moldings the owner has around his doors and windows (nice fancy molding at the top, and then the regular molding down the sides. Mine is in a stone wall, so the moldings are not quite as nice as that.

I admit it is a pain to aquascape with an in-wall system because I have to keep going in an out and in and out of the room. Even setting up corals is a nuisance. But, the look and feel of an in-wall is wonderful.

With a system that big I was considering putting in a closed-loop system. (maybe drilling like 6 additional holes to keep the flow moving without using koralias.)

Finally, you may consider using greenboard for the walls to protect against moisture.

Good luck, I cant wait to watch this project come along.

 

[Bifferwine]

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Do you want to buy the lights that I had over my old 240? 4 x 250 w MH plus 4 x 39 w T5! $1000! Sold to the man that started this thread!