the 210 gallon in wall project

Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

yea, thanks biff, but i'll think i'll stick with what i have till i see i need more, (yea i know that the math sais i do), but i'm not ready to buy any more lights for now...

yea, the 2 foot long t5's had run through my mind, but that would take a bunch of bulbs and more ballasts, and i'm already dealing with 3 as it is...

I think that for now i'll keep the 48 inch t5's that i have, i know that it will leave the ends of the tank darker, but i might put something like small t5's at the ends, or maybe even a single mh at each end if i figure out that i gotta have it..

I agree, that deeper front to back rather than taller is better, now that i thnk about the penitration of the light...

The more i look at it, the more i think that the marineland 180 is just about right, 6 feet long to fit that wall, and then 2 feet by 2 feet, not really much deeper than my 75 now, but another 6 inches deeper front to back.. hmmm not to mention that the marineland ones have the corner overflows... which i tend to prefer the look of to the back wall ones... i'm sure thier fine, i just like the way the corners look

so, they come with i believe 2 1inch holes in each corner box, so thats 2 drains and 2 returns, a 1 inch pvc will flow about 600gph, so thats 1200gph drains, and if i do the 180 then 180 * 10 = 1800, so i'll be a little shy of my target total volume flow from the sump. what i might do, is use all 4 as drains, and then just build my own pvc returns that hang over the back of the tank in the man cave room, as long as it dosent look crappy from the living room side, it should work, right?

well, i wanna see it happen too, i'm doing all the math right now and trying to figre out exactly what $$ i need to have in hand before i start, so that i dont get half way through and run outta $$ and then cant finish..

so far its looking like i'm in good shape, if all i HAVE to buy is the tank, return pump, and some pvc, more than that may stress the rest of the plan... that should be enought to get the system up and running and start it cycling, my plan is to seed it from my existing 75, cause, in all reality, i'm basically just gonna pour the 75 into this new tank, and then tear down the 75 and use it as the sump... so, i may not have to go through a full month of cycling, just have to seed it, and then take the appropriate measurements to make sure that its all good to go before i move everyone over...
 
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Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Before you commit to using all 4 holes as drains, you need to make sure the teeth in the overflow box will flow that much water.

If you had 4 holes 1" that means you could potentially drain about 2400gph out the holes. But will the teeth do that much or would they have to overflow the top to dump that much water on the drains?

Just food for thought. I don't really know if that's how it works and I'm not criticizing. I just got to wondering if the boxes would move that much water.
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Rcpilot said:
Before you commit to using all 4 holes as drains, you need to make sure the teeth in the overflow box will flow that much water..
Click to expand...

i agree 100% and i will check it out when the time comes, but i'm sure that its nothing that a little time and skill with a dremel wont fix, i mean, then overflow box i have in my 75 now needs more slots in it for this exact same reason...

Good eye RC, i'll def. be checking that out when i get to that part, but other than the teeth, can you see any other problems?

the other thing that i noticed is that these corner overflow boxes seem to have holes at the top(normal teeth) and then some holes halfway down, and then a few at the bottom..

and actually, as far as the physics goes, i can use all 4 as drains, just cause the drain lines have more capacity than the teeth, just means that the drain side will be limited by the teeth, and the return pump, but having extra capacity on the down hill side shouldnt really matter... should it?

dcantucson said:
I run TWO Quiet One 14000 on my 150 gallon Zero. That's 2 x 3624 or 7348 total gallons per hour.
Click to expand...

how much head and flow resistance do you have in that system? are you REALLY flowing that much, or is that just the #'s on the pump name plates?

not barking, just trying to get an idea of real flow vs perceived flow.. if you know what i mean...
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

For the people with large flow numbers, what size drains do you have? does anyone run closed loops?
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

oh, and i just came back inside after making the latest batch of home made liverock... just dumped it in the forms, let that sit overnight or a couple days, then i'll pull them out and let ya'll see em.. my plan for this batch is to take a pick axe to them before i cure them and break them into natural random chunks and then get them into the cure vats...

this batch of rock was made using portland cement, rocksalt, crushed coral, and RO-DI water....
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYERaI9nPAQ[/ame]
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

project5k said:
and actually, as far as the physics goes, i can use all 4 as drains, just cause the drain lines have more capacity than the teeth, just means that the drain side will be limited by the teeth, and the return pump, but having extra capacity on the down hill side shouldnt really matter... should it?
Click to expand...


Nope. You are correct. Just size the pump for the teeth and you'll be set as long as that doesn't happen to be more than your 4 drains can pull out. I forgot about that part.

If the teeth CAN do more than 2400gph then your pipes would be limiting agent. Then go back to sizing the pumps by the drain lines.

I'm thinking about your sump flow. If you do manage to get 2400gph out of those drains and boxes - do ya really want that much flow through the 75g sump? That's gotta be over 30x the sump volume. :shock: I'm thinking it would look like a churning waterfall in that sump.

Have you thought about using one set of drains for the sump and the other set of drains for a separate fuge? If you run the 75g sump between 3x - 5x the tank volume that would be around 550 - 900gph (180g tank volume). You could run one line for drain - one for return. With a Mag 7 on the sump you could get right into those numbers after head height and piping loss. Run the other drain and return through a fuge on a different pump. One hole for drain and the other for return with a Mag 5?

Or save the 75g tank and do what I just mentioned with 2 different tanks. 20H for the fuge and a 29g for the sump. Or maybe a 55g with a 20L stacked on top?

Then just use powerheads in the tank for flow.

Just a thought. :D
 
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Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

project5k said:
how much head and flow resistance do you have in that system? are you REALLY flowing that much, or is that just the #'s on the pump name plates?

not barking, just trying to get an idea of real flow vs perceived flow.. if you know what i mean...
Click to expand...

I would say it is very close to that amount Project5k, but remember it's a Zero Edge, so all the water flows over all 4 sides of the tank and down into a return trough, and then in 3 overflows 2" in size. Then through the sump to the two pumps. There is about 3 1/2 feet of return line.

It takes a lot of flow to flow down all four sides in a sheeting style so that you can see through it clearly. If there is not enough flow then the water trickles and causes a blur type pattern towards the bottom of the outside acrylic. Also I have no power heads so the returns (5 of then) are where I get the needed water movement.
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

yea i remembered that thoes zero edge ones took lots of flow cause of the sheeting action down the outside, but i didnt realize it was that much... wow...

yea, RC, i was thinking about all of that, the one thing that makes me nervous is having 2 seperated equal priority "sumps" cause i could see one getting fuller than the other, and then vise versa, not sure if i would like that, seems it would allow for too much to chance that they stay ballenced, unless you have a equalizer tube between them, and then well, heck you might as well just do em all in one tank then...

yea, it does seem like a bunch of flow in the sump to me, and considering that i think i have too much for the sump i have now, i think i should plan better for this next one...

hmm i dunno what i'm gonna do.. gotta think on it a bit... i guess its time for me to go sit infront of the tv with my grid paper notebook.. thats generally where i do most of my figurin'

one thing tho, i think i feel pretty safe about the amount of rock i will be able to have, if i use the 75 as a sump, and then have 180 gallons in the new DT, then i'm gonna have lots of room for rock... hehehehe heck, now that i think about it, considering that i will have basically that entire room to do whatever i want to with it, i could just use a couple of thoes black rubbermade feeder/water traughs as my sumps.fuge, then i have a 75 that i can sell to help pay for the new tank and parts and skimmer and stuff.. hehehehehe
 
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Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Funny, wife and I talked about this as well already and I get a fish room as well once we buy a house later this year. Going to be doing the same thing as you.
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

Project5k
I'd do it all in the 75g then. I never thought about an equalizing tube, but you are right. You'd need one. :shock:
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

well, the more i think about it, the more i think that i'm gonna go get me one of thoes stock tank horse watering traugh black plastic things, they have them in different sizes, but the local tractor supply has a 110 gallon one for $59.99, and its LDPE so its chemically inert to salt water... then what i can do is sell the 75 and both the original particle board stand and the taller one that i built with the canopy and then use that money towards new toys for the new tank.. hehehe

reason being that its a sump, and its in a dedicated room, so who cares if its glass or ugly black plastic, its more about the function than the form for me... so i figure go with the bigger volume, cheaper, less breakable, option and call it a win!
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

:bounce:

Thats right up my alley man!! Cheap and perfectly functional. Great DIY project too. Wish I was there. :mrgreen:
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

yea, and it holds more, and if i "drop a rock" i dont end up with water everywhere...

i recently had a flood event, but fortunately i was here when it happened, heck, i was doing a water change when it happened... short version of the story is that i was doing a water change, just normal stuff, but my "dirty water" trashcan was outside, so i brought it inside, put it on its little wheel cart and dropped the drain line in, well, so i start draining the water i'm taking out of the system, and i went to walk around the back of the tank to look at the syphon tube, just to make sure its happy, and splash splash, i'm walking in water, in my sock feet, oh the tile floor, oh crap, theres lots of water, oh crap, theres only 2 inches of water in this 30 gallon trashcan, and i've pulled like 15 gallons out of the tank...

come to find out, somehow, and i'm still not sure, but anyway, there is a cracked hole in the bottom of my trashcan, a hole about the size of a dime, so, all the water that i was draining, was infact draining on the floor...

out comes the shopvac...

got it all cleaned up and dried out before the wife came home, but i gotta tell ya, it was the worst water on the floor event i have ever had, period.
 
Re: the 240 gallon in wall project

ok, so after talking with my favorite LFS, he's gonna check on a couple things for me, but i think we have a winner, after considering price and availability, lead time, and size and all, i think that i have decided on an aqueon 180 wide, measures 72x24x24, corner overflows, drilled and reef ready for $800 plus tax.

I'll use the t5's that i have now, over the middle of the tank, and then a little farther down the road, i'll look into maybe some MH's for the ends or something...

darn, wish i could rename the title of the thread to the 180 in wall project.
 
re: the 180 OR 210 gallon in wall project

Hey, Thanks for catching my hint there biff.. hehehehe

and to think, i had just built the stand to hold a couple extra 20's i had sittn around that i was gonna put together as a quarentine system, guess i'm really gonna need that now, cause with that much tank, my poor couple little fishies are gonna get lost hehehehe
 

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