Thinking of becoming a Deer Hunter

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by dcantucson, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. dcantucson

    sen5241b

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    sen5241b, Dec 2, 2009
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  2. dcantucson

    Picasso Seahorse Whisperer

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    Ok, if you are stating that there are big problems in the world, I agree. I'm not closing my eyes to the fact that there are significant issues facing us. Just because we have a challenge doesn't mean we have to loose this race. To say "humans are a lost cause so who cares about making scientific and technological advances" in my opinion is a fatalistic viewpoint and I hope I'm not offending you or making a personal attack because I certainly do respect your opinion and intelligence. I believe that we need to open our minds to some "out of the box" thinking if we are to overcome the problems of feeding and nourishing people without causing harm to the planet, it's inhabitants and ecosystems. To say that growing meat in a laboratory is gross so I won't eat it is simply a state of mind that could hinder the possible progress of that specific technology and as people who care about the environment and respect our oceans us reefers should work to help others change their mind rather than help to bury the research by eliminating the market for it's product. The other problems you mentioned are important but not specific to this discussion; however, I could point out that there are brilliant minds working on everything you mentioned with the hope that us humans can work it out. If I have mistakenly labeled your viewpoint as fatalistic then I'm sorry. It is realistic to acknowledge the problems but fatalistic to say we've got problems and we're all going to die, die, die... Just realistically "calling it like I see it". Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Catherine
     
    Picasso, Dec 2, 2009
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  3. dcantucson

    Picasso Seahorse Whisperer

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    Picasso, Dec 2, 2009
  4. dcantucson

    cthegame

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    just wait till biff joins this topic. :D
     
    cthegame, Dec 2, 2009
  5. dcantucson

    project5k

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    she'll probably discount the discussion based soely on the source of the information before considering the facts.
     
    project5k, Dec 2, 2009
  6. dcantucson

    yote Ceritfied Mantis Hunter Moderator

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    Here's my thing about it.
    I don't eat any kind of tame meat,except for what my family raises.Beef,chicken,what ever.I don't eat fish thats bought from the store either.Most farms pump growth hormones and steroids into their livestock to make them grow faster.Its not natural for a chicken to go from a 1 day old hatchling to a 6 pound frier in 6 weeks.Same with cattle and pork.
    But my family all gets together and raises our own meat and most veggies to.No hormones used at all.Plus when its time to slaughter a calf or hog,the packing house we take them to uses a .44mag and shoots them at the base of the skull,severing the spinal column at the brain stem,so theres no suffering.
    When it comes to fish,my kids make sure we got plenty of that during the spring,summer,and early fall months.Theres no need for me to buy meat from the grocery store.We dont even buy eggs from the store.
    As for growing meat in a dish,I dont see how it could ever be healthy or even natural (not saying that whats in stores now is natural either).
     
    yote, Dec 2, 2009
  7. dcantucson

    cthegame

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    i think its scary at first but people will eventually get used to it...personally, i think there are probably better solutions than engineering flesh for us to eat. What we are doing now with the farms etc is wrong but to me engineering it is wrong too. We're messing with the fundamentals of nature here, surely it will have some consequences too...Every action has consequences, we just need to figure out whats best for the planet and people. There has to be some kind of middle ground here.

    Its a scary thought tho to have to eat that stuff. Kind of making me lose my appetite actually.
     
    cthegame, Dec 2, 2009
  8. dcantucson

    sen5241b

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    Yote's got the right idea.

    Picasso, I never said humanity was a lost cause -I just said at this point we have a 50/50 chance. A mere 5000K megaton exchange would set us back centuries -- about 7 I'd say. World stockpiles are about 15K. We were writing letters to our senators last night asking them to use alternative energy sources where it is economically feasible to do so. (I tend to a be bit fatalistic sometimes.)
     
    sen5241b, Dec 2, 2009
  9. dcantucson

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Well well well...

    There seems to be a couple different discussions going on here. One is bioengineered food. The other is survival of the human race.

    Let's get to bioengineered food first. Humans have been bioengineering their food for thousands of years. Did you know that broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts and cabbage are all the same vegetable? They are all the exact same species. Over thousands of years, humans have selectively bred them to look and taste like four different plants. (The same thing that we have done to the domestic dog).

    All of the grains that we eat have been engineered. There is no such thing in the wild as corn on the cob (the kind that we roast or boil and eat). Thousands of years of selection pressures for certain traits have made foods more "desirable". This includes taste and looks, as well as resistance to pests, extreme temperatures, drought and other stressors.

    Altering the DNA of our foods is the next logical step as we become more technologically advanced.

    There are many people that argue against GMO (genetically modified organisms). They are unnatural, and what if their artificial genes escape into the wild and start cross-breeding with natural, wild species (this has happened many times).

    Other people say that using GMOs for food is a necessary evil since our population is growing so fast and we can't possibly feed everyone the "old fashioned" way.

    I'm actually on the fence with this one (amazing! I don't have a strong opinion either way! Who would've thunk it). The problem I see with using GMO foods to feed our growing population is that FOOD is not the only limiting resource. Say we feed everyone. Everyone can have lab-grown meat, woopee! Everyone get unlimited amounts of rice because we've been able to engineer it so it can grow anywhere, under any conditions. What about water shortages? We haven't been able to genetically engineer an unlimited supply of fresh water. What about the faster spread of disease due to overpopulation? What about the increased soil erosion resulting from people being able to farm the land more?

    To me, using GMO foods to "feed the world" addresses only one angle of a multi-faceted problem. So you got one problem that humanity is facing (hunger) beat. There are still twenty others in line ready to kill us.

    To me, this petri dish meat can't be used to feed the world. It has to be grown in a lab. Anything that has to be grown in a lab can't possibly become widespread enough, available in enough quantity or accessible enough to feed more than just a few. But it can really help to alleviate the suffering of animals raised in factory farms, and it can really help to alleviate the stress on the land, water and air imposed by livestock. Which is HUGE. Eliminating food livestock could reverse global warming's trajectory basically overnight.

    And about us messing with the fundamentals of nature (cthegame). What fundamentals of nature HAVEN'T people messed with at this point? We visit doctors and take medications, and get vaccinations to fight off "nature". These are things that "nature" created that would have killed us all thousands of years ago. We drive cars and fly in planes instead of walking. And when we do walk, we wear shoes. Most of us attempt to form a lifelong bond with one person of the opposite sex. That's extremely rare in nature! Almost unheard of, in fact.

    It's hard for me to say that using GMOs for food is messing with nature, because pretty much everything we do messes with nature. Why is this any different? Jesus Christ, have you ever read the back of the bag of Doritos or Cheetos? And you think that growing meat in a petri dish is unnatural, huh!! Look at the meat you eat now. Like Yote said, these animals are abominations. They are fed a diet of nothing but chemicals and antibiotics and hormones. They wouldn't be able to stand up under their own weight since they are so artificially inflated. They grow ten times as fast and ten times as large as their natural counterparts. What's the difference between doing that to meat and growing it in a petri dish? Nothing, in my mind.

    As for survival of the human race, I don't think it's too late, but I do think it's too late for most of us. The way I see it (and many other scientists do too), the root of almost every environmental problem, if not every environmental problem, is overpopulation. We've probably all heard, "The solution to pollution is dilution." Well, we've run out of space to dilute all our crap! We have nothing left to dilute our crap with.

    The way I think things will end up is with some catastrophe of epic proportions (whether it be natural disaster or man-made) destroying most of us. Only by starting off with a small, sustainable population can humankind prevail. We cannot possibly co-exist with the earth with the numbers we are in now. Hopefully, when/if we do get an opportunity to start over again, we will get it right.

    That's exactly what happens in nature with other species that exceed their environment's carrying capacity. Humans are no different in that respect. When an animal exceeds the environment's carrying capacity, there's a huge die off. They die of starvation, disease, lack of water, etc. Any hunter can attest to that. And there, I've brought it full circle back to deer hunting again :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
    Bifferwine, Dec 3, 2009
  10. dcantucson

    yote Ceritfied Mantis Hunter Moderator

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    I cant argue with that.:D
     
    yote, Dec 3, 2009
  11. dcantucson

    Picasso Seahorse Whisperer

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    +1 Biff!

    C
     
    Picasso, Dec 3, 2009
  12. dcantucson

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Oh Yote, you probably took one look at the wall of text and decided it wasn't even worth your time to read it!! ;)
     
    Bifferwine, Dec 3, 2009
  13. dcantucson

    Brian_G overly obsessed

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    wow. and biff just taught me so much in that 5 min of reading...

    what an eye opener. and to think that turkey i ate for thanksgiving was an engineered piece of meat... HMM
     
    Brian_G, Dec 3, 2009
  14. dcantucson

    cthegame

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    :bowdown::bowdown:
     
    cthegame, Dec 3, 2009
  15. dcantucson

    dcantucson

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    What in the hell did I miss. Why is everyone bowing down to Biff the Goddess? :mrgreen:
     
    dcantucson, Dec 3, 2009
  16. dcantucson

    cthegame

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    you werent around to give opposing arguments in time to save us and now she is our ruler. :death:
     
    cthegame, Dec 3, 2009
  17. dcantucson

    Picasso Seahorse Whisperer

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    Is that it? We're only going to get 16 pages out of this topic?

    C
     
    Picasso, Dec 3, 2009
  18. dcantucson

    dcantucson

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    Catherine, Biff has spoken so there's nothing left to be said. Biff's word is final. :lol:
     
    dcantucson, Dec 3, 2009
  19. dcantucson

    Picasso Seahorse Whisperer

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    Well, we should be able to get a few more pages out of this.... Hmmmmmmm....

    You know the thing about hunters? They don't pay enough fees for their hunting licenses. Also, they should all only get to use bows because guns are bad. And.... ummmm..... You shouldn't get to start hunting until you are 21.
     
    Picasso, Dec 3, 2009
  20. dcantucson

    project5k

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    ok now your just looking for a fight for the sake of a fight, no point in that.

    i mean seriously, is this the hill you wanna marter yourself on?
     
    project5k, Dec 3, 2009
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