what is that? Please help

Discussion in 'Invertebrates' started by qxcontinuum, Oct 8, 2009.

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  1. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

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    Hi, i am new in Marine tank upkeep. Thanks to doctor gogle i am doing fine so far. Been already a month and no dead creatures.
    I have a 90 gallons tank with 3 filters, (Rena XP3, Fluval 2, and a Marineland cascade.
    My water is at 1.025 constant, water temperature 79. Thye protein skimmer is on its way somewhere between Us and Canada customs. Light 40W day light and 30W actinic blue.

    Fish; I have two Clown's, 6 dampsey's, one cleaner.
    Inverebrates; star fish 3 small ones, sea urchins two, 3 hemmit crabs, one anemone.

    Corals, one leather coral, one soft coral, two disk corals, one (don't know its name), and some (regular ..... sea buttons???)

    I have an invasion of b rown algaes that is currently eaten by the sea urchins and glass cleaning on weekly basis.

    Now my question is; i've saw today something white and soft siting on the bottom of the tank. I am assuming it's an invertebrate baby. Can someone please help identifying this one?
    Could be a baby anemone?

    I also noticed from one of the sea urchins i have some arround bubbles coming out while was climbing on glass the past few days. But this soft white stuff is too big to be from the urchin.

    I've taken a photo of this weird stuff;
     

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    qxcontinuum, Oct 8, 2009
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  2. qxcontinuum

    Ted Living one day at a time

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    well not sure what that is. I do see one thing though. You dont have enough light for the anemone. Is the anemone you have all in one piece? take a good look at it it could be coming apart. The light that you mentioned is ok for a fish only system but not for corals or anemones. Anemone need at least 6 watts per gallon. Welcome to the site.
     
    Ted, Oct 8, 2009
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  3. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

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    so far everything ok, my anemone eats shrimp, it shits (pardon) daily. It expands and shrinks well. I' dunno, the light even if it seems to be low i've seen 600 watt and insight wasn't as bright as my tank is with 70 watt. (the tube says was made in Germany) i've read somewhere the kelvin's are important not the watts.
    At big all's all the corals are growt under a very difuse light. Some corals i bought from them were affected by this new light in the beggining an they were directing their hat downwords in the first days then raises thm in the following days..
    But i am looking to ad another actinic red which will give about 110 watt to my fish tank. I'll post a pic with my anemone
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 8, 2009
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  4. qxcontinuum

    Sharkie The Damsel Defender

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    welcoem to the site, how long has your tank be up and running? the lights you mentioned are enough to sustain the corals or anemone... in fact if your tank is under 1 year old i'd suggest taking that nem back to the store you bought it from. they usually don't survive in tanks less than a year old
     
    Sharkie, Oct 8, 2009
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  5. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

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    oh, been only a month since i have the fish tank.
    The anemone seems to do fine..She has lots of life in it. I realy don't believe she's going to die!
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 8, 2009
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  6. qxcontinuum

    Sharkie The Damsel Defender

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    lol thats what we've all thought with anemones, they look fine, eat great, and then one day EXPLODE! I'm not sure why so many LFS' sell them to people with new tanks... no offence to you but take the thing back wether or not you think its doing okay... more than likely its slowing dying which will release toxins and in amounts that will wipe out your entire tank... I've seen it first hand :( its not fun... Typically it takes a month to cycle the tank if you're lucky... did you cycle it at all and what are your nitrates and nitrites and ammonia and ph reading at? are you dosing the tank with anything else? what are you feeding the fish and do you have a sump/fuge setup or are you just using the filters than hang on back (HOB). I read in your earlier post that you had 3 of them? larger tanks usually require things like a sump for filtration purposes because the HOB filters aren't adequate enough to support the tanks system.

    keep a close eye on those urchins and the damsels. Urchins are cool but they are VERY stupid and VERY strong. They will probably knock your rocks around without realizing it and make things topple over.... damsel are very terrortorial, and altho they are pretty and i love them they are more than likely not going to get along with ANYTHING in that tank you add from this point on.... hopefully this helps a little and doesn't sound rude! :) I'm just trying to help ya out :)
     
    Sharkie, Oct 8, 2009
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  7. qxcontinuum

    winyfrog Yep!

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    wow only a month with all those animals already. you may not be having to much trouble with them right now, but as mentioned the anemone will start to suffer.

    as far as the little white thing I can't really see it can you get another pic. although it does look a bit like part of an anemone as ted mentioned. the brown algae is normal for a new tank.

    I would suggest you increase your lighting asap and do weeklywater changes and not add anything else to your tank for at least a month.

    welcome to the site, you will get some good advice here, sometimes not always what you want to here but we are here to help our fellow hobbiest as well as the animals.
     
    winyfrog, Oct 8, 2009
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  8. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

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    ok, even though i am new in marine i've been all my life a freshwater guy.
    I am running 2 canister's. Only Rena xp3 should be enaughtfor this tank, i have another Fluval canister based entirely only in Carbon and one cascade that brngs oxygen and moves water.
    My water is crystal clear. entire rocks are build in the middle so the entire tank can be clean and the water flows and the current makes a square through all my tank.
    I have added all the trace elements and calcium.
    The aquarium was having approx 20 gallons of old water like two years old from another friend fish tank. So i am asuming all good bacteria's was into that as well as in all live rocks i have.

    No there is no nitrates ans nitrites in my tan. Been doing measurements always. All good from this point! I am sure the water is fine.
    In one week i'll have a proteine skimmer too
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 8, 2009
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  9. qxcontinuum

    winyfrog Yep!

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    we are just trying to help after all you asked. freshwater tanks and saltwater tanks are completely different, and require very different care and filtration.

    good luck
     
    winyfrog, Oct 8, 2009
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  10. qxcontinuum

    Smitty

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    Well, first of all hello and welcome to the site...Even though you started off with live rock and sand and used water, your tank is still very young, and you are stocking too fast...slow down and be patient...you should really take the anemone back, for the sake of your tank. If you decide to keep it, then good luck, and do plenty of water changes, and upgrade your lighting...soon.:D
    Remember, we are here to help you along the way, and mean no harm if we suggest something you don't wanna hear, or come off as rude.
     
    Smitty, Oct 9, 2009
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  11. qxcontinuum

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    I agree with what others have said. You have less than 1 watt per gallon. The Kelvin rating of the bulb makes very little difference in keeping corals. All that impacts is the color of the bulb. Watts per gallon is a general rule of thumb that usually holds true. Corals need a minimum of 4 watts per gallon, anemones need 10. You have hardly any light, and if the anemone dies, it will probably kill everything else in the tank.

    No offense, you talk like you know what you are doing and are resisting all our suggestions (which are based on years and years of experience in the hobby), so if not to get advice, why are you posting questions?

    For the record, hang on back and canister filters like the ones you are using are not effective for saltwater setups. You should have 1 to 2 pounds of live rock per gallon of your tank size, and a protein skimmer.

    You can do what you wish with our suggestions, but the only reason we are telling you this stuff is because we have all been through it before and want others to be able to learn from our mistakes.
     
    Bifferwine, Oct 9, 2009
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  12. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

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    ok thanks for all these infos but from all of them my understanding is to bring back the anemone. Let's put the worse before; If the anemone is dying it can be remove before going in putrefaction and i guess the tank will not be affected.

    Just found the little piece was a shrimp that was spited by the anemone. She likes small chopped pieces not the big ones. She is staying right now in a water current close by the top where the light is stronger.

    I must buy another light that's for sure!

    However a metal halide isn't indicated as far as i read on the net because of ultraviolet radiations that can kill corals. Deep in the sea there isn't much light. Corals do great in strong light and multiplying until a point where they just stop. Their life spawn is reduced this way (this i know for sure from a marine biologist)they also prefer medium light close to their underwater spectrum which is actinic red and blue which provides ultraviolet in small quantities and phosphates A balance between all these should be perfect.
    I've noticed in all major pet stores the corals aren’t having too much light and the bulbs are small placed in a square with red, blue, green and white color.
    I am just saying.
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 9, 2009
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  13. qxcontinuum

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    No, it usually can't be removed before putrification. By the time you notice it is sick or dying, you can try to remove it, but it will disintegrate in your hand as soon as you touch it, and anemone parts will go flying all over your tank. Those hundreds of slimy anemone parts in your water are what will cause your tank to crash, killing everything else in your tank. Oh I know all about this firsthand as do many others on this site!! ;)

    Metal halides are one option. Hard core reefers use halides, and if it's true that they kill corals, they wouldn't use them. Even commercial aquariums use metal halides. I don't know where you got that info from... I use metal halides on one of my tanks.

    If you don't want halides, you should use T5s. They are the best type of lighting for smaller tanks (like yours). My second tank is also a 90 gallon, and I use T5s on it.

    BTW, I am a biologist :) I have a BS in Biology, an MS in Biology, and a second MS in Soil, Water and Environmental Science.

    In pet stores, their goal is to sell the corals as quickly as possible. Usually, the lighting they use is not good enough to keep them alive long term (like we want in our tanks). They can keep corals and anemones under insufficient lighting, because in pet stores, livestock turns over pretty quickly, and it won't do the animals any harm to be under insufficient light for a few days to a week or two. But it's not good enough if you want to keep them any longer than that.
     
    Bifferwine, Oct 9, 2009
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  14. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

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    qxcontinuum, Oct 9, 2009
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  15. qxcontinuum

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Yes, it says that corals that come from different types of lighting need to be acclimated to metal halides. That's common knowledge. What in that article says that metal halides should not be used?
     
    Bifferwine, Oct 9, 2009
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  16. qxcontinuum

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    I just don't understand, you are so new to the hobby, you say you have read articles, and already you know better than people in this hobby that have successfully been keeping corals for years.

    But the information you are claiming is true, just isn't. And what you are saying is "fact" is not even remotely considered true in this hobby. You just sound like you have no idea what you are talking about. And you have no firsthand experience to back up what you are saying either.
     
    Bifferwine, Oct 9, 2009
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  17. qxcontinuum

    Ted Living one day at a time

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    ok bud we are just trying to help you. We take this hobby very seriously and hate to see anyone fail or kill animals needlessly. You need to get over to bob fenners site if you dont believe us. Wetwebmedia, Aquarium, Pond, Marine and Freshwater Fish, reef tanks, and Aquatics Information This is hes link. Read up on nems and lighting. Right now you are basically shinning a flash light into your tank and hoping for the best. Your nem will die and it will crash your tank if you dont do something fast. For your sake and your tank inhabitants sake I hope you will do something. I would hate to see you give up when you lose everything. Their are plenty of people who think they know everything and end up selling their tanks on craigs list. Thats not always a bad thing for those of us who like to successfully keep reef tanks. I am sure there will be some one in your area who will benefit from your present way of thinking.
     
    Ted, Oct 9, 2009
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  18. qxcontinuum

    ccCapt Reef Hacker Moderator

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    If you truly want help, we can give you some good advise, but it's up to you whether you follow it or not.
    You are running a saltwater tank. Those are fw filters and are unnecessary and can/will promote high nitrate levels in a saltwater system.
    At 1 month, your tank is no where near ready for corals and you have no where near enough light...not even close.
    You said it yourself. This is marine, not freshwater. They are not the same. What works for 1 does not necessarily work with the other. What does "one cascade that brngs oxygen and moves water" mean? How does the filter produce water with more o2 than the tank itself?
    What was your calcium level that you needed to dose additional calcium and what is it now after you dosed? Exactly what trace elements did you add and how did you test for them to know they needed to be raised? #1 rule in saltwater...do not dose anything you don't/can't test for it.
    Oh my. Where to begin disecting this bunch of fallacies.
    metal halide isn't indicated as far as i read on the net because of ultraviolet radiations that can kill corals
    Single ended MH bulbs are encased in a UV shield and no UV light is emitted. Double ended bulb are always run in reflectors with UV shields on the reflectors. There is no UV emitted thru the shield.
    Corals do great in strong light and multiplying until a point where they just stop. Their life spawn is reduced this way (this i know for sure from a marine biologist)
    Where in God's name did you read or hear this and please post a link showing this "fact". I don't know if I ever read such nonsense before.
    they also prefer medium light close to their underwater spectrum which is actinic red and blue which provides ultraviolet in small quantities and phosphates
    I'm not sure it's possible for a home aquarist to match the amount of light that some corals receive. Many corals, including many of the corals that are kept in home aquariums, are exposed to direct sunlight (as in low tide and out of the water).
    What is actinic red and how does light produce phosphate??????
    if you like metal hlide please read here. This dude knows what he is saying
    Placement of Corals in the Reef Tank
    Mile Paletta is very well know in the "coral world". What are YOU getting out of his article?

    I wish you luck with your system, but you have many, many changes to make if you expect success.
     
    ccCapt, Oct 9, 2009
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  19. qxcontinuum

    qxcontinuum

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    Kent marine nano Reef

    Calcium
    Magnesium
    Strontium
    Potassium
    Iron

    + Ion and buffer system to mintain high alkalinity

    My button corals are already expanding and i can see a few small ones on the rock where they were placed
    disk corals are expanding and they seems to be bigger than before
    I have an ultra small coral that came out of nowhere from a rock. It's pink color
    As well a mushroom is growing who knows where is coming from (maybe live rocks)
    There is some marin greeen grass growing on the rocks (not hair algaes)
    In the crushed coral layer mixed with fine beach sand i have some worms.


    Honestly i think my tank is doing pretty well so far. The expansion of button corals and the growing of the small pink one is showing that so far the conditions are great.

    Will see in the future and keep you posted.
     
    qxcontinuum, Oct 9, 2009
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  20. qxcontinuum

    Bifferwine I am a girl

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    Good luck!!! I hope for your sake it works out, but 100% of other people that have made the same mistakes as you would beg to differ. Honestly, one month is too short to judge anything.

    Case in point:

    I had a rock that had some majanos (pest anemones) on it. It also had a colony of button polyps (desireable corals that many people keep, especially beginners). I wanted to kill the majanos at any cost, so I put the rock in a bucket of fresh tap water for 2 weeks. When I took it out, the button polyps were still alive. They are back to normal in my tank now.

    YES, I kept them alive in that condition for two weeks (amazing!), but they would not have survived, obviously. In this hobby, it usually takes months for bad things to start happening to corals. They tend to die slowly, before you realize it. So you saying that your corals are doing well in less than one month of being in your tank doesn't mean much, considering my corals were doing "well" submerged in freshwater for a similar amount of time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
    Bifferwine, Oct 9, 2009
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