Yellow Tang - Ich Velvet and...?

[antikas]

Hello, I have been trying to find out exactly what is wrong with my Yellow Tang and decided this was the best place.

Background:
I started a 70 Gallon saltwater fish tank a little over 2 months ago with live sand. Two weeks later I added two damsels. They did great, kept them in for a month, then traded them back and got a live rock, 2 Hermit crabs, a red banded shrimp, a feather duster, 2 clowns, a midus blennie and a yellow tang. They all have done well, except for the yellow tang.

Current Issue:
Today my wife noticed our yellow tang had white spots all over it. The white spots are hardly visible unless it is facing you and you can see down its sides. I can also see it on his pectoral fins. Doing some google searches, my best guess is that he has velvet instead of ich as the white spots are much smaller and spread tightly all over his body. I also noticed some "peeled skin/mucus" floating in the water.

What I did:
Step 1
I went out and bought a 10G tank, filled it with water from the display tank, put on a filter/heater/bubbler and made sure the parameters were good and added QuICK Cure (Formalin, Malachite Green) and Melafix(melaleuca).

Step 2
Prepared a freshwater dip (insured temp and pH was same as the DT), placed the Yellow Tang in the dip for 2.5 minutes (scary process as he just sank to the bottom and did not move except for gilling) and then placed him in the 10G quarantine tank.

Current situation (3 hrs after placing in the QT):
The Yellow Tang has started swimming around the QT now (as opposed to hiding in a corner), but he appears to be losing his mucus layer. It is stringing off his fins and floating around the QT. I know he was losing some of it before the QT process, but it appears to be worse now.

3 Questions:
1. What might be causing the Yellow Tant to lose his mucus? Bacteria?

2. Considering I did not have a QT tank set up, is what I did above an ok solution? What should have I done?

3. Should I do more freshwater dips and if so, how frequent?

As a final note, the Tang has always been the shy one. He spends most of his days either in cover or very near his favorite hiding spot. His activity level has not changed since I got him, but he does have a healthy appitite. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[yote]

First off welcome to the site.
You did right by not adding the mediations to your display tank.
As long as the tang is eating,just watch him.You might add some garlic extract to food to help boost his immune system,but other than that,just keep an eye on him.
How big is the tang?If he's got some size to him,he may stress more in the 10 gallon and futher complicate the issue.
Also hold off on any more fresh water dips.Even though it kills the parasites,its highly stressful to the fish.
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Bifferwine]

Also, it's very likely that when you add him back to the main tank, that he'll get sick again. Reason being, you quarantined and treated him, but not the other fish. And if there is ich (or other disease) in the tank, they are mostly likely carrying the disease, but just not showing symptoms. The only way to eradicate it completely from the tank is to remove and treat ALL the fish, and leave the tank empty (without fish) for at least 6 weeks.

As Yote said, as long as the fish is eating, it will usually recover from the disease by itself.

 

[antikas]

Thank you for the responses. The Tang is about 2.5 inches long. I took a sample of water to my LFS and had it tested. They said everything was good and only had a trace amount of nitrate. I did a 10% water change. My wife thinks one of our clowns has a little velvet on his chin, but I don't think it is. She went ahead and put him in the QT tank too.

The Tang ate flake food today, and after I went to the fish store I picked up some frozen mysis shrimp. I put a little dab in the QT tank and the Tang would go after it, but not eat it. The clownfish wound up eating it all. I don't know if the tang was just full or what. I'll see if he eats some tomorrow.

I asked my LFS if there was anything I should do to treat the DT, but the owner wasn't there and they said it was probably better not to treat it. I would like to be able to do what Bifferwine said, but I just don't have the money to get another tank going that could sustain my fish for 6 weeks...

Thanks again for all the advice :)

 

[yote]

Dont plan mysis holding the tang over.Even though they can and do eat meaty foods,their staple needs to be algae and seaweed sheets.Their digestive systems arent designed for an all meat diet.

 

[Tanked]

Sorry to hear your Tang is doing bad.....Two thoughts....
1) You added a bit more livestock than I would with a 2 month tank.
2) Nitrates, Nitrates, Nitrates......No Nitrates and you can not get ick...Just my opinion but after 12 years I have never gotten ick and always have ZERO Nitrates.

I've taken fish with Ick and put them in my main and they heal right up...dip them for worms first... I use the Koi pond dip, it's the same but way cheaper...

Good luck!

 

[Tanked]

Oh, I forgot, I've had great luck with Garlic Guard bringing fish back from the deep!

 

[antikas]

Update:

The velvet looks like it has been cured as I don't see it on him anymore, but his pectorial fins are starting to deteriorate. I don't think it is fin and tail rot because it is only the webbing/membrane (not the spines) that is deteriorating and the medicine I have been using (Melafix) is supposed to cure tail rot. I just don't see him getting that disease 3 days after medication has started. I am more inclined to believe it has something to do with the water or maybe nutrition deficiencies...? I am rotating daily, feeding him Formula One flakes, bloodworms and mysis shrimp. My wife is going tomorrow to get some algae food for him. I tried to feed him some romaine lettuce but he has never ate anything that floated.

The clownfish I had in the QT tank for two days also started to show signs that his fins were changing (turning more opaque instead of clear), but when I put him back in the main tank it stopped so I attributed it to the malachite green possibly dying them somewhat. However, the Tang's pec fins are clearly deteriorating and none of the water quality tests show anything serious (I still do 10% water change daily using Main Tank water)I am thinking about putting him back into the Main Tank now, depending on your suggestions. He is still eating well, his colors are bright and he has gone back to hiding in his ornament mostly. I am just worried about his pectoral fins and worried about him staying confined too long in the 10G QT...

 

[yote]

I'd be worried about him in that 10 gallon too.That just way to small for even an extra small tang.
Go ahead and put him back in your display and see if his fins clear up.

 

[ccCapt]

No Nitrates and you can not get ick...Just my opinion but after 12 years I have never gotten ick and always have ZERO Nitrates.

That is quite the bold statement and opinion. Too bad it is 100% inaccurate and incorrect. Ich is a parasite and nitrate has absolutely no affect on it.

 

[Tanked]

I find it odd that people separate the health of the specimen from the observed symptom.

Ich is a symptom that manifests as a parasite...I assume every fish I bring home has ich!

Taking a holistic approach, No nitrates equals no stress, no stress equals ability to make a healthy slime coat, no stress equals willingness of the fish to visit the cleaners in your tank...

But hey treat the symptom all you want, dump some meds in, I'm sure it will clear right up!

For now...

 

[ccCapt]

What awesome advice. I don't know which statement is best.

Ich is a symptom that manifests as a parasite

Ich (cryptocaryon irritans) is NOT a symptom. It IS a parasite.

I've taken fish with Ick and put them in my main and they heal right up...dip them for worms first... I use the Koi pond dip, it's the same but way cheaper...

A dip to cure worms. Your invention? So when the fish are dipped and it miraculously kills the worms, it has no affect on the fish, yet is strong enought to kill something living inside it? You should market that stuff. ;)
Koi pond dip is the same as what?

As long as it works for you...good for you. But IMO, it is horrible advice to give to someone looking for help.

 

[antikas]

I understand what you are both saying. Ich is a parasite that affects stressed fish and nitrates are one source of stress. I bought the tang on the same day my local fish store got it in, thus it had a lot of stress and contracted ich.

The good thing is I only have a trace of nitrates (between 0 and 20 ppm)and the velvet has gone into remission. Thank you everyone for your comments and here is to healthy, stress-free fish! :Cheers:

P.S. My wife got some garlic-enriched, green algae sheets and the tang has been gobbling it up all day. I can actually see he has a full stomach lol (no worries it isn't bloat, just gluttony :p)

 

[antikas]

Ok... is it possible he can eat too much seaweed? He is stuffed and still eating!

 

[yote]

Tangs are like cows,They eat and eat and eat,then they eat some more.
If you think he's eating to much,just pull whats left of the seaweed.:D

 

[Bifferwine]

Ich is a symptom that manifests as a parasite...I assume every fish I bring home has ich!

Taking a holistic approach, No nitrates equals no stress, no stress equals ability to make a healthy slime coat, no stress equals willingness of the fish to visit the cleaners in your tank...

But hey treat the symptom all you want, dump some meds in, I'm sure it will clear right up!

For now...
[/FONT]

Not correct. Even with zero nitrates, there can be plenty of stressors in the tank that will lead to fish having a compromised immune system and being more susceptible to parasites.

I've seen tanks that are horribly overstocked, but have excellent filtration systems. They have nitrates at zero. By your logic, those fish should never get ich. But they do. If fish bully and chase each other, that will stress the tank's inhabitants.

Hell, you don't even need to be overstocked to stress a fish to death. Just put a damsel and any other fish in a tank together, and you risk stressing the fish. You'll still have zero nitrates, but your fish will not be healthy or happy.

Fish are also more resilient to nitrates than inverts are. There are beautiful reef tanks out there that run with nitrates around 70 to 80 that manage to keep healthy livestock. Myself, the nitrates in my tank has been in the 150s before, and I've never had ich problems either.

Your fish can get ich whether your nitrates are at zero or two hundred. That has nothing to do with it.

 

[1geo]

Whether you fish have some form of Ich or Brooklynella (Brook), if you do not leave you main tank fallow (fishless) for six weeks they will continue to get reinfected and eventual succumb to the disease. Ich has a life cycle that includes an egg stage. The eggs can lay dormant in your substrata (the bottom of your tank) for up to six weeks. When they hatch they literally have hours to find a host, a fish, or they will die. Brook multiplies by cell division. The new cell becomes a swimmer which can persist for up to 4 weeks without a host then if it cannot find a host it dies. So if you continue to keep your fish in the tank they got the disease in, they will always have the disease and sooner or later they will die. Ich and Brook are treated differently. For Ich, copper is the chemical of choice. For Brook you have to use Formalin. There are all sorts of QT tanks including 10 gal rubbermaid containers. Search Google and read about the treatment for both of these disease; there is plenty of literature on both. To do nothing and ignore the problem is to doom your fish.