Help - 6 Dead Clowns

[Bredfan]

Hi -

I lost another pair of clowns today. I'm at wits end! Here's the history - I'll try to be brief:

10 weeks ago, set up the tank. 29g.

Started with 2 clowns and a YT Damsel.

About day 13, one clown died. He was pretty torn up - I assumed the Damsel. Day 14, the second clown dies. The Damsel was fine.

I removed the Damsel from the tank. The water tested fine across the board. Salt was a tiny bit low 1.022.

I added a second pair of clowns. One was much bigger than the other. I added them together. One was kind of slow and lethargic (the bigger one) and the other pretty active. On their 3rd day in the tank, the big one died. 12 hours later, the little one died.

Went back to the LFS. Tell the guy what happened... he guesses - the first two killed by Damsel, the second two bad luck - one was sick maybe. He didn't know.

The water tested fine again. No problems at all.

I added 2 turbos and 5 hermit crabs.

I let the snails and hermits in the tank alone for about a week. They were all thriving.

Now we're at about 9 weeks into this.

I bought a new clown fish last Saturday. I only got one because I am now gun shy about a pair - I had just lost two pairs.

After much research - including posting here - I decided to add a second clown. Monday I added a second clown.

This morning, clown #1 was dead in the tank.

Clown #2 is acting really weird - hunkered down in a corner and not moving much - I assume he's gone (I have not been home for a few hours).

So....

What is happening?

I'm so disappointed... it's been a rough start...

Any ideas?

What should I do next?

Thanks for any insight...

 

[Northstar24]

It sounds like something is off in your water. Take a look at the questions here, and post back the answers so we can try to help

https://www.livingreefs.com/sticky-oh-noez-mah-fish-sick-threads-t34819.html

Is the tank covered? Is there something moving water towards the surface for gas exchange, or are you running a protein skimmer?

Remember to take the advice of most fish stores with a grain of salt, many of them are looking to profit off of you - those of us here at Living Reefs do not share this motivation (and there are some good fish stores as well, I'm lucky to have found one)

I also see you have a 29 gallon tank with only 8 pounds of live rock. If you do not have any other rock in the tank - I'm guessing you have no where near the bio filtration that you need (according to your signature anyway)

 

[BL1]

My first suggestion, would be to let your tank be for a while without fish. Just because your not testing any nitrates, nitrites, or ammonia doesn't mean you don't have some kind of parasite or disease in the tank. Let it go for 4-6 weeks then try adding a fish again. Next, I'm assuming that you've gotten these fish all from the same place? I would try buying your next fish from somewhere else and see how it does.

 

[Bredfan]

Thanks for the quick replies. @Northstar - that's correct. I started with just dry/dead rock and added a few pounds of LR to the set up at the same time the second set of clowns went in. And yes - with the exception of the last clown (#6) - they were all bought at the same place.

Here are some answers that may help diagnose this too...

Temp - 80
Salinity - 1.022
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - Unsure
Nitrate - Unsure -
Phosphate - Unsure These 3 "unsures" are because I have not tested the water myself. The LFS has done it for me. As I write this, I am thinking "you dumba*%." Though I've been dealing with the owner himself and he has been telling me "no nitrates/nitrites - you're water is great."

Decscribe your system (size / filtration etc): 29g, Fluval 205 canister, Live sand (I think 25lbs), a regular old hood with the fluorescent bulb.

Other inhabitants in the tank: 2 Turbo snails, 9 hermit crabs, 1 YT Damsel (removed after Clown 1-2 died)

Are any of the other inhabitants effected? No - snails are still trucking and hermits all seem happy.

Have you treated your tank with something to remedy this issue? No - every water test (again, according to LFS) has been good.

Has anything changed recently? (New coral /fish / invert / piece of equipment) Added the snails and hermits after the second set died. Added 8lbs LR before introducing the second set of clowns.

What is your water change schedule, and how much are you changing? Changed before the second set of clowns. Not since. So its been 3 weeks. (There was nothing in the tank but snails an hermits.)

Question: Is there something I can do to get rid of any parasites that may exist in the tank? Will they use the snails and hermits as hosts and continue to live in the tank?

Sigh.... (My poor kids. 3 and 5 years old - they don't quite understand this. But a good lesson, I suppose.)

 

[little_fish]

It doesnt sound like you ever cycled your tank, and i suspect their tests are wrong and you do actually have nitrates and ammonia.

You should get up the proper amount of rock, 1-2 lbs per gallon and make sure the tank is actually cycled. To save money you just add dry rock. Toss in your table shrimp and do your own tests every day. Make sure you get the liquid drop kits, not the test strips.

If there is a disease or parasite the best thing to do is leave the tank empty of fish for 4-6 weeks, but if your tank is cycled you can still add inverts and corals.

 

[wontonflip]

Just out of curiosity, what lfs did you get it from? I'm from Northern VA, and I ONLY buy fish from 2 stores...one in manassass, and one in herndon/reston. I know of a new one in Alexandria, but i have not checked them out yet.

But +1 everyone -- leave your tank empty for a few weeks to get rid of any parasites, IF that is what is killing them. Have your LFS test your water, as well, in case your test kit is bad (I once bought a new test kit that kept testing my water as having 20ppm..turns out, it was a bad test kit...it was newly opened, too..a comparison test w/ the lfs test kit showed mine was bad). Any parameter swings?

 

[Bredfan]

Thanks everyone.

I am home now and it looks like clown #6 is still alive. If I can get some video of him, I'll post it so you can see if you think he's acting weird.

@wontonflip - I'll be happy to share the details with you but I'd rather private message you. I really don't know what has happened and I don't want anyone taking it out on the lfs (unless I become sure its warranted!). But it is neither of the two you mention...

Next purchase - a great test kit. Any particular brand I should look for?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[yote]

With the damsel and the clowns that dyed,the tank SHOULD have cycled.

While I have no idea where your LFS gets their fish,I will relay a problem we went through at my LFS several weeks ago.
We had a decent order on clowns,several different types.They all acted fine in the store and we actually sold out of em in about a week and half.Then about 3 weeks AFTER that order came in,customers started calling,telling us that the clowns were either dead or dying ( 10-20 calls a day ).All these fish acted fine at while we had em at the store and was actually some of the best looking clowns we'd had in a while.
Since we usually remember our customers and what they bought,we asked the ones that hadn't called,on their next visit.But 75% ( rough guess )of that order of clowns dyed within 4 weeks.

May not be related,but then it could be..

 

[wontonflip]

Maybe your lfs and Yote's lfs got their clowns from the same seller.

 

[Bredfan]

Wow - Yote, are you also northern VA? I'm not sure it matters... I'm sure the suppliers ship all over the place...

ARe there any parasite eating critters I could put in the tank in the no-fish phase?

 

[yote]

Wow - Yote, are you also northern VA? I'm not sure it matters... I'm sure the suppliers ship all over the place...

ARe there any parasite eating critters I could put in the tank in the no-fish phase?

Naw.I'm in north Georgia.But your right,wholesalers ship all over the country.And they keep thousands of clowns in one holding bin waiting to be bagged for shipping,so if one has something,chances are that others have it too.

And there's not anything that I know off that would be feasible to control parasites,at least not long term.
The best thing to do for em,is starve em out by leaving the tank fishless for a few weeks.

 

[Bredfan]

Well, it's been 2 days since CLown #5 died. Clown 6 was acting weird that day and last night. He was swimming really slow, almost lying down on the sand, and basically hunkered down behind a rock and under a plant.

Today, we seems better. He's swimming more actively and I've seen him in the open water more.

It is interesting that this #6 is the ONLY one of the 6 that was from a different LFS.

If it was/is a parasite that killed the first 5, could this guy have survived it?

If he did survive it, does that mean the parasite is still in the tank?

Should I remove him anyway and let the tank go fish free for a couple months?

What do you all think?

 

[yote]

There is something weird going on here.

From reading back in this thread,I'm assuming the damsel is doing alright and acting normal?
You've also got a couple of inverts in there,so should rule out stray voltage.I'm thinking they would be the first to go down if that were the case.

I'm just grasping at straws here.But how are you acclimating your fish?And whats your salinity at? Are you using a calibrated refractometer to test salinity?

And if the new clown is doing better,I wouldn't run the risk of trying to put it in QT.That would bring on more stress for the fish and cause more harm than good.

 

[Bredfan]

Well, I don't know about the damsel because I took him back to the fish store.

I acclimate the fish by floating the bag for about 15 minutes, then dumping about 1/4 of the water and refilling with my aquarium water. I do this 3-4 more times, about every 5-10 minutes. After the 4th or 5th water swap, I pour what is remaining into the tank.

The salinity I'm checking with one of the plastic hydrometers. I am testing at about 1.022 and so is the lfs.

So what do you think? Is it possible that it is, in fact, a parasite? That would mean #6 somehow survived it...

 

[yote]

Honestly,,I have no idea.
To my way of thinking,if it was some kind of parasite,either it didn't infect clown #6,or that clown was healthy enough to survive it.I just don't know.

 

[Bredfan]

Yeah - I thought of something else too... Remember Ockham's Razor?

Well, maybe the damsel killed #1 and 2. #3 was sick and died, and took #4 with him. Then what if #6 came into the tank and killed #5?

It could be that simple.

The question now is... Do I risk putting anything else in the tank?

Maybe I'll get a couple of Chromis - hardy and inexpensive.... See how they do...

What do you think?

 

[yote]

It'd be worth a shot.Want know until you try any how.