Stinkin nitrates and nitrites

[LighteningTheStarfish]

We are coming towards the end of the first week with our tank. We jumped in, probably a little too much too fast, but of course went by our fish store "expert" suggestions. We picked up a 75 gallon tank and got it up and running. I have been testing the water levels twice and day, and slowly but surely the nitrates/ites have been creeping up. I did a 15 gallon water transfer this morning and another 10 this evening and the nitrates/ites haven't gone down. We currently have one star, one eel, 10 fish and 6 hermits. The fish seem to be behaving fine and have not had an appetite issue. We are using instant ocean for our salt mix. I have used two different test kits, both giving similar results:

Using test strips we are seeing:
Nitrate 0-20
Nitrite 0-.5
Chlorine 0
alkalinity 180-200
and a PH of 7.6-7.8

Using liquid test kits I get

nitrite .05-.1
PH 7.6-7.8

We are running a Rena Smartfilter 55 and an Aqua Clear 70 for filtration. Tank temp is between 76-78 and a salinity of 1.021.
The bed is 60lbs of crushed coral and 15lbs of the live coral/sand mix. We have no live rock. Any ideas for lowering the nitrate/ite or just keep swapping water daily?

 

[RYknow]

Am I reading this correctly? You are coming up on your first week with your new tank? You have 10 fish and an eel? Not to mention zero live rock?!

From reading this post I would assume your tank hasn't even cycled yet. If my assumption is right, your going to see all your levels spike off the chart!! I suspect your going have some heavy losses. This is just my two-cents, but you have gotten WAY ahead of yourself!

You can keep doing water changes, but untill you have a good chunk of LR, I would assume your going to be fighting a loosing battle. Others will chime in on this for sure, but IMO you've gone way too far...way too quickly.

-RYknow

 

[dustin_P74]

heres what you need to do, catch everything in there that is alive and take it back to the fish store and once you walk out that door make sure it is the last time you ever go through that door way. also you need to get atleast 1-2lbs. of live rock per gallon of water, then change the crushed coral to sand or you will have never ending problems. then let your tank just sit by itself so it can cycle. once that is done i suggest getting a skimmer running on that tank and get sump set up under the tank. and also get some liquid test kits as they are more accurate. then once your tank has cycled ( meaning that your ammonia nitrites and nitrates are all at zero) then do a 20-50% water change, once that is done you can start adding fish at about 1 per three weeks, also while your waiting for your tank to cycle you need to do a massive amount of research. but you took a good first step by coming here

 

[Bifferwine]

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay. Yeah, I think you can probably tell where this is headed :)

There is no way you should have ANY fish or ANY live animals in your tank while it is cycling. If you have nitrites or ammonia present, it is cycling. Only when nitrites and ammonia are both at zero, should you add animals. And then, add one fish every three weeks or so.

Unless you remove all those animals and take them back to the store, you are headed for a major crash. Every animal in your tank will die.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you got some MAJORLY bad information from that fish store!

Live rock will be your main source of filtration. You should have 1 to 2 lbs of rock per gallon in your tank.

10 fish would be pushing it for a tank that size even if it was mature and established.

Please catch and take back those animals. If you do that, you can add live rock, your tank will probably take a couple weeks to cycle completely, then you can add animals one at a time. I honestly do not see any way that your setup can be a success with the filters that you have (which are not suitable for saltwater), your huge bioload, and the newness of your tank. I hate to sound so pessimistic, but your tank is headed down a bad bad path.

 

[Bifferwine]

Oh one more thing.

Keep in mind that fish stores are businesses. They are trying to sell you something. They sell you 10 fish, then the fish die, and you go back to the store to...buy more fish!! There are a lot of great stores out there, but unfortunately there are just as many greedy, unscrupulous people that only see a wallet walking through the door and don't seem to give a crap that they are selling living creatures that deserve to be respected and taken care of.

You need to shop at a different store, one that won't take advantage of you. It may be hard to find a good store, but when you do, it is really really worth it. It also never hurts to get a second opinion on anything the store tells you. If they tell you that you "NEED" this piece of equipment, or that you "NEED" to put this chemical in your tank, post a question on a forum like this one first and see what other people have to say. Remember, no one on here is trying to sell you anything or make a buck off of you, so we're going to tell you the truth, and what we have learned through experience, and yes, being taken advantage of ourselves!

We were all "newbies" in this hobby at one point, and every single one of us has been ripped off and lied to at one point or another, I can guarantee it. Now we're here to help others learn from our mistakes and to try and prevent dishonest fish stores from doing the same thing to other people.

Anyone that owns a fish store knows that you cannot put 10 fish in a week old tank that has no live rock. The advice that they gave you was bad, and I'm sorry you are paying the consequences for it now.

Having to do daily water changes is not normal!!! And is not good!!! If that's what your setup is forcing you to do, something is not right.

 

[LighteningTheStarfish]

I thought that we should wait a few days before dumping fishies in the tank. We actually went to three different stores, no one at any of them batted an eye so that was why we tried it. They did tell us in a week we would see a spike in nitrate levels and we would have to do an water change when that happened. That is why I have been watching the levels so closely. We use both strips and the dropper thingie to test levels. Of course the stores also said that we don't need live rock, that they do help in filtration. I will keep you guys posted on what happens. I will change water daily if that is what it takes to keep these puppies alive!

 

[dustin_P74]

even with daily water changes the ammonia will kill them, you really need to take them back

 

[cgoodman381]

haha I guess your name lightening suits you

 

[sen5241b]

You might ask the the fish to store to hold your fish until your tank finishes cycling and then get them back when the cycle is finished but putting too many fish in a tank all at once can cause another mini-cycle. A secondary mini-cycle, however, might be controlled by water changes. I also recommend you put some 'beneficial bacteria' additive in your tank like "Special Blend".

 

[Piggy]

I would try and get the LFS to hold the fish or if you know someone else that has a saltwater tank to help you out. I would never use them LFS anymore.

 

[RYknow]

Hmmm...something is fishy. A LFS, not pushing to sell Live Rock?! I don't know about anyone else, but Live Rock at my LFS is like $10 per lb. I've been to a bunch of shops around here, and they ALL push Live Rock!


-RYknow

 

[yote]

I've got to agree with everybody else.Your tank is still cycling.And I'll bet that no matter what you do,your going to have about half those fish die.You'd have to do daily 100% water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites from getting to lethal levels.And then you'd shock the fish with the new water(which is just as bad).
So that being said,take those fish back to that store and shove em right down the salesmans throat.Then find another store.Then ask questions on some forums before you buy anything.

 

[Bifferwine]

I will keep you guys posted on what happens. I will change water daily if that is what it takes to keep these puppies alive!

Any ammonia or nitrites in the water can be fatal, even low levels. If ammonia and nitrites are anything but zero, your fishes lives are in danger.

Doing daily water changes will not guarantee that the fish live. Like Yote pointed out, large/frequent water changes shock the animals which can just as easily kill them as poor water quality. It's a catch-22. You really need to get rid of the fish.

Plus there's this. Even if you do keep all 10 alive, 10 fish in a 75 gallon tank is overstocked anyways. Fish are territorial. You didn't say what kind of fish you bought, but I'm willing to bet money that you bought a variety of damsels. Blue damsels, yellow tailed damsels, striped damsels and domino damsels are the most commonly sold fish for cycling. Damsels also happen to be some of the most territorial and aggressive fish that are sold for our tanks. 10 damsels sharing a tank together will eventually start killing each other off. They will fight constantly until there are only one or two of the strongest ones alive left. Then, the damsels will try to kill any fish you add to the tank afterwards.

So if you do not take the fish back, they will A) either die from the poor water quality, B) die from constant water changes inducing shock, or C) die from overstocking or territorial disputes and constant fighting.

You came to this forum and asked advice, which I greatly applaud. Everyone has suggested to take the fish back, and start over again with live rock, cycling, and going slowly. You can follow that advice if you want, or not and keep things the way they are, but people here speak from experience. Since you posted in the first place, it should be obvious that the things the way they are is not working.

 

[Damseluver]

Everyone's advice is spot on. Get the fish back to the store and pick up an ammonia test kit. This will be the first thing that spikes in your tank and you can probably expect a large one given the live stock you had in the tank.

When ammonia comes down to zero start testing for your nitrites. When these come down to zero your basically cycled but still need to add live stock slowly.

If this is to be a fish only tank IMO you can stay with the crushed coral substrate and no live rock for now. Fish will need cover though so at the vary least base rock should be added. The bacteria that cycle the tank will attach to filter media base rock and substrate. Do not clean filter media until tank is well cycled.

As was said LFS can not be trusted. Your best bet is to get your info here. Everyone here is a fellow hobbyist. Opinions may vary but at least you wont get advice that amounts to you tossing your money down the drain.

If your lfs will not take the fish back let them know that they have lost a customer. You can try adding a ammonia/nitrite detoxifier like amquel+ but given your stocking levels you will most likely still see losses and a larger than normal ammonia spike for a new tank.

 

[Alexander]

Wow, I'm not even sure where to start or if its even worth wasting my time. It seems as its been unanimous that you will lose all of your livestock if you do not return it. And yet you still posted again seeming to completely ignore what the advice was that was given to you, for free I might add from fellow aquarists not salesmen or small businessmen running a store. Contrary to what damsulover did say is ok, that tank really will not be suitable for your aspirations without live rock. There are vast amounts of fauna and microfauna that will be your biological filtration. Additionally no animals should be put in your tank after the first week, live rock or not. When cycling your IF you want the tank to get off on the right start and finish quickly and with little to no algae bloom you NEED a skimmer. These nutrients in the water from dead organic material need to go somewhere and ill tell you right now your wimpy rena filter isn't going to make a bit of difference with the extreme amount of organic material that needs to be skimmed out. If you add live rock now and don't take out the livestock you will have death guaranteed. Its lose lose please don't be too closed minded to our advice because you want everything right now. I understand how excited you are to set this up. We have all been there and many of us have been there multiple times with tank upgrades and setting up side projects. These animals are not like goldfish. There are very very very few animals from the ocean that are successfully aqua cultured on a level large enough to distribute to the home aquaria. Meaning these animals are coming straight from their homes in the ocean where they were happy to a complete apocalypse. And it happens all too often because people don't do the proper research and put too much trust in a fish store. A place that may not see the idea of long term profit and just wants a quick buck.

I highly suggest restarting crushed coral is fine as long as its no more than a half inch to an inch tops you will need to regularly clean trapped detritus in the substrate. Head to the articles section. Read up on starting a sw tank then add what you need and please give it some time.

Additionally what kind of water flow do you have in there? I'm not trying to come down on you just trying really hard to let you see the harsh reality you are now faced with.

 

[Bifferwine]

It sucks when people come here asking for advice, they get a unanimous opinion from everyone that posts (take those fish out now!), but they still ignore the advice. Why bother asking for advice in the first place if you are still going to insist on doing it "your way" no matter what? Sigh.

 

[Alexander]

:werd:

 

[sicklids]

you see man, the thing is here on this forum for most of us is that this hobby isnt just about having nice tanks. most of the people on here are also into the conservation of the different species that we keep. so to us, its not just a pretty fish, its a species that shold be conserved. its deeper than just a hobby.

 

[yote]

you see man, the thing is here on this forum for most of us is that this hobby isnt just about having nice tanks. most of the people on here are also into the conservation of the different species that we keep. so to us, its not just a pretty fish, its a species that shold be conserved. its deeper than just a hobby.

Thats a fact right there.And the way things are going now,there may come a time that the few fish we keep in our homes,will be extinct from the oceans.And that is quickly becoming a reality.