125 Setup Advice

[Th0r4z1n3]

So I've got all the stuff to finish setting up my 55g, and what do i do? :dunno: I start looking on CraigsList for a bigger tank. :confused:

I've always wanted a large tank to set up as a Reef Tank, and found a really good deal on a 125 with stand and a bunch of extras. I'm looking at this as a more long-term project than it took to set up my 55, but I'm looking for some advice on what type of things I'm going to need as far as lightning etc. I know I'm gonna have to go with MH lighting, but my biggest question now is "what kind of MH lighting?" I'm talking in terms of color temp, how many MHs do I need as well as how many HO bulbs to go along with it.

I'll be completely honest with everyone, I'm an eBay-rat, and the first thing I do when I'm looking for something is an eBay search to get an idea on price and availablety. While I may not be buying these particular lighting fixtures, I curious as to any advantages each would have, ie single housed unit containing all the lights vs something like pendant lights for the MHs

3x250W HQI Metal Halide 72" 1062W Aquarium Compact Light Actinic Lunar LED Lamp | eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-346W-4X2...ltDomain_0&hash=item5647ed1d8f#ht_1607wt_1195

48 Inch 2x150 Watt Aqua Medic Ocean Light Metal Halide Fixture | eBay

Metal Halide Mogul Base Light Fixture- 175, 250, 400 watt capability w/glass | eBay

I'm not 100% sure on the tank dimensions, but I know its 6' long. Judging by the all in one unit, I'm assuming that I would probably need 3 MHs to properly light my tank. It'd probably end up being cheaper to purchase an all in one unit, but it might be a bit easier for me to buy individual components a little bit at a time.

Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated, setting up my 55 was relatively easy since I ran SW in it before, but this sucker is a bit lager than anything I've dealt with before and would end up being more of a "scratch build" vs my 55 where I already had most of the stuff I needed to get it going again, and I'm sure there are things that are more specific to larger tanks than a smaller tank like my 55.

Thanks guys!

(Before it gets brought up, yes I'm doing my own research too, I just figured I could get some input from others while I'm hitting the books)

 

[chuck78]

If you can get that MH fixture in that 1st link for less than $600, it would be perfect for you if you're trying to go with an MH set up. The rule of thumb is 1 bulb per 2 ft & 250 watts is exactly what you need b/c it will penetrate to the bottom of your tank with no problem & you'll definetely have the proper amount of wattage per gallon. As far as color temp, I would suggest 14k or 15k. That way when the bulbs begin to wear out, they won't give that nasty yellow tinge like 10k bulbs. I would'nt even bother with 20k, that's just toooo much blue.

 

[Th0r4z1n3]

Hey thanks for the quick reply! I was hoping something like that would work well, I like the aesthetics of an all in one unit. :)

After looking around and reading up a bit on MH lighting, I've started to think that LED might be a better option. They cost more to buy, but seem like they would be cheaper in the long run; the first time I have to replace 3 MH bulbs, looks like it would more than cover the cost difference between and MH & LED set up.

LED lighting is totally new to me. These are supposed to be equal to one MH, would hanging 3 of these over my tank work the same as 3 MHs and the actinic bulbs in the first link? or would I have to supplement some of the light spectrum with HO bulbs? I noticed that the ones in this link are a 1:1 blue/white ratio, but I thought I read somewhere that there should be a 2:1 blue/white ratio with LEDs.

120 Watt Aquarium Coral Reef Tank LED Grow Light 120W 3 Watt LEDs 14k 1:1 Ratio | eBay

I'm not going to be buying any of this stuff immediately, so I've got time to learn and read up on things before I commit to anything. I'm just trying to get an understanding of what a large reef tank requires for lighting.

EDIT: or would something like these be better?

http://www.boostled.com/products/mu-series-135w-led-module

 

[kevdogg]

LED's are known to have a much more intense light then MH, so you will need to be able to dim down the lighting to acclimate your corals. If you read some of the build threads the guys have to turn the LED's down to 20% and never have gone above ~70%. Just FYI.

From what I have seen ebay is riddled with cheep knockoffs. Some have bought these and they have been fine but what I have been seeing is after a few months LED's are going bad and fixtures are not working. :twocents: I would stick with the larger name brands, they are all very reliable and come with at least a 1 year warranty. The boostLED is good many people buy from them. You may want to PM Northstar24 if you need a little more
information. I hope this helps.

 

[Th0r4z1n3]

I've been giving this a LOT of thought, and reading up on it quite a bit throughout the night, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with a DIY LED set up so that I can have more control over the quality of the parts that go into it. The wiring seems to be pretty straight forward, and I'll be able to buy the parts as I get the money instead of forking over$500-600 all in one crack... and to be honest with you, if I did actually have that kind of money all saved up, I'd probably buy a Transformer with it. (Yea, that's my other money pit...I mean hobby LOL.)

I do need to do a bit more reading up on the subject to find out exactly how many LEDs I need to put in each fixture, and for the life of me, I can't picture where to hide the drivers. :dunno: The kits on RapidLED seem to be pretty self explainitory but, I'm sure I'm gonna have a ton of questions as the process goes on. So if anybody has any links to some good LED articles feel free to share them. :D

 

[Northstar24]

If you're electrically inclined, you can save yourself quite a bit of money going the DIY route with LED's

Not only that, but you can add in LED's to address the 'somethings missing' aspect of the fixtures that run white / blue / royal blue (which is pretty much every off the shelf LED fixture, with the exception of some VERY high end stuff)

I would advise you to stay away from ebay for LED fixtures, unless you're looking at a name brand, established unit being sold used

I want to play around with a DIY setup myself, but I have the same problem, I have no clue how you hide the drivers and make the fixture look halfway decent. My wife would never let me hang some of the DIY fixtures I've seen on the net over my tank. I'm seriously considering it though, I'd like some magenta/green LED's to bring back some of the color that isnt being rendered under white/blue/royal blue led's

 

[Th0r4z1n3]

Since you got a name drop for LEDs, any input on color ratios for them? 1:1 white/blue 1:2 white/blue or 1:1:1 white/blue/UV ?

I need to look at some other peoples setups to check out how/what they did but I'm thinking that I can mount the drivers to the back of the stand and just run the wire to the fixture. I can always buy a roll of heat shrink to put over the wires so they don't look so tacky.

 

[Th0r4z1n3]

OK so I've been doing a bit of research on DIY LED lighting. I'm thinking of getting 108 LEDs with a 2:1 blue to white ratio, and mounting them on three 6" x 20" Heatsinks, for a total of 36 LEDs per fixture. My tank is 125g, and measures 72x18x18, is this going to be enough/too much light to keep corals? Also what are the advantages of of adding UV or other colors to the setup?

I emailed the guys at RapidLED, but just wanted to get some input from other people.

Thanks in advance. :D

EDIT: Also what's the deal with drilled vs not drilled heatsinks? Doesn't the thermal past hold the LEDs in place? or are they for something specific that I'm just not grasping?

 

[Northstar24]

I think you'll have enough LED's. Have you considered running optics on them? I'd think either 60 or 80 degree so that more of the light makes it into your tank and not on the walls behind the tank

As far as color ratio goes, many, many people choose the 2:1 blue to white ratio. Since you are going about this the DIY route, I would also add in some UV and some Cyan LED's as well. The reason you want to do this is that there is a fairly large body of evidence that the standard white / blue / royal blue fixtures are missing something that causes colors like purples and reds to wash out, a problem not seen with metal halides. The current hypothesis is that its something to do with light near the UV and red/green bands as these colors are almost totally absent in the white / blue/ royal blue setups/

I am currently in the process of evaluating some supplemental lighting for my Aqua Illumination Sol units, not because they can't grow coral, but because I have seen some evidence of this color rendering issue in both my fish and my coral. I have recently talked with the folks over at RapidLED (Awesome folks by the way) and they suggested 8-12 LED's of UV/Cyan per AI fixture to get some of that color rendering back. The nice thing about the UV and Cyan LED's is that because of driving current needed, they can be run on the same driver.

So - your plan looks solid, but I would change a few of those whites and blues on each fixture out for some UV and Cyans, and maybe a few reds - but I dont know what current the reds are driven at (hopefully the same as whites or blues, which are driven at a higher current than the UV's and the Cyans)

Sorry I missed your replies to the thread, feel free to PM me here if I fail to respond again in the future. Wade (Fastrd400) would be another person to talk to about this

 

[Th0r4z1n3]

No prob man, I've been busy reading up on all this for myself too, so I've been finding a LOT of the answers on my own, but some of the specifics are hard to find with search. The main reason I was posting was to get some opinions from other people who've dealt with LEDs before.

The guys from RapidLED got back to me already, and suggested that I go with 72 LEDs (12 UV, 24 white, 36 blue) spread out over two 6x20 and one 6x9 heatsinks to get the coverage I need. This really impressed me, because it would have been really easy for them to just let me go ahead and get 108 and make some extra money off of me.

I think I'll look into adding some Cyans and Reds to the setup, although I'm not sure how many I would need at the moment. I'll have to read up on it a bit, but if anyone has any suggestions I'd be open to hear them. :)

Thanks again for the input Northstar!

 

[Northstar24]

If you choose a mix of the white LED's I don't think you'd have to worry about the Reds. Most fixtures off the shelf are tinted towards the blue end of the spectrum and use 'cool white' LED's which have pretty much 0 in the way of red light. There are two other white LED's that are used mostly in DIY fixtures, neutral white which is a little warmer than the cool white, and warm white, which has some of the missing red in its spectrum. I think if you mix in at least some warm whites you'll address the red end of the spectrum.

If the guys at RapidLED didn't mention cyan for your application, I would't worry about it too much, just know that if you do decide to add them, they can be wired up with the UV LED's on the same driver. You may want to sprinkle a few in. Again, the cyan LED's arent being added for par, they're being added for color rendition.

I think I am going to order mine sometime this week, we'll have to keep each other posted to see how things are going - I've never dabbled with electronics like this before

 

[Th0r4z1n3]

I've been selling off some of my Transformers over the last couple of days to get the money for my LEDs... I'm almost 1/2 way there (YAY!) The hard part is going to be NOT using this money to buy some of the more rare figures that I've been wanting, LOL.

The guys at RapidLED didn't mention that the UVs would need a different driver, they just said that I could swap out some of the blues for UV from their "Premium 36 DIY kit", is this something that I should ask them about before I order?

 

[Northstar24]

The UV's run at a lower wattage than the blue and the whites, so I do not believe you would be able to wire them on the same driver. With 72 LED's you'll need more than one driver, but I would ask Mike just to make sure, I'm sure he'll set you up right

My application was a lot simpler, since its only to supplement the LED fixtures that I already have

 

[Th0r4z1n3]

I contacted them and asked about the drivers, they said I would have to adjust wattage on the drivers before connecting the UVs. So a BIG THANKS for the heads up!

I think what I'm going to do is order a 36 & 24 kit along with a 12 UV kit that comes with the correct drivers. This will give me the same light ratio that I was looking for, as well as save me about $10... a penny saved right? LOL.

EDIT: The wiring seems pretty straight forward, I'm pretty confident that I can do it, but if you need any help LMK...if anything we can figure it out together. :D LMK how your build goes too, I'm more than interested in how everyone else is going about stuff like this.

 

[Th0r4z1n3]

My LEDs came in Saturday, I still need to order the heatsinks, but figured I'd better get the expensive part out of the way before I spent the money on something else. I'll keep you posted on my progress...as I make it.